Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for IA

[anoop_mig25]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

I believe we have a spoiled bunch of generals and another notoriously inefficient Babus in the Defence Ministry. It looks that the new Defence Minister has fallen victim to the machination of both these entities.

Now the procurement process for artillery guns would begin all over again. It would take three years before recommendation on Bharati, L&T or TATA supplied is made. The difference from this RFP and the previous one is that they have an Indian partner, although the guns are same either BAE or Austrian or Denel etc.

What a counterproductive decision by the Defence Minister when ready made 155/45 caliber Dhanush Howitzer is waiting to be ordered in greater number and Kalyani after transporting Noricum's whole manufacturing operation has been transported to India. They can begin manufacturing in less than a year.

If the spoiled brat of Indian Army is insisting on imported design then somebody should tell them that Dhanush and Kalyani are also imported design.

I believe that Indian Army wants a specific design. This they can have it only after they prove every other gun in the competetion is inferior. Which one is this gun, they have not said yet.

The new Defence Minister can use his authority and retire a few erring generals. Until then this indecision would continue and national security continue to suffer.

What if present defence minister does not know about "155/45 caliber Dhanush Howitzer" & "Kalyani" .I mean like you and other there defence enthusiastic who regulary keep in touch with news , but this may not be true for present or ex defence minster who are not defence enthusiastic and mostly dependent upon babus of defence minstry or defence services for information

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

What if present defence minister does not know about "155/45 caliber Dhanush Howitzer" & "Kalyani" .I mean like you and other there defence enthusiastic who regulary keep in touch with news , but this may not be true for present or ex defence minster who are not defence enthusiastic and mostly dependent upon babus of defence minstry or defence services for information

It may have happened with Congressi DMs. Not with the current government. This government has good advisers and parallel sources of information. It will be highly unlikely that Generals can take this DM for a ride.

GOI has given approval to Dhanush earlier. Upgradation of M-46 is in process. This is the mounted artillery part. All components of artillery modernization have been put into motion by the current government.

 

[hit&run]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Any big gun that is not mounted on an armored vehicle (read tank) is vulnerable. Am I correct ? Please help me understand more; in Indian context. Pardon my lack of vocabulary.

 

[Shaitan]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

The likely contenders for this deal:-
1) Nexter Systems teamed with Larsen & Toubro (offering the Caesar)

4)Krauss Maffei-Wegmann teamed with Ashok Leyland offering the 22.5-tonne AGM (on a 6 x 6 truck)

Ashok Leyland and L&T are working together in the this offering. (with Nexter)


Nexter, L&T and Ashok Leyland forms consortium for Indian Army's MGS programme | Business Standard News

Under the current agreement, L&T will act as the prime contractor and Nexter will transfer the final integration and production of the MGS artillery system in India to L&T.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Any big gun that is not mounted on an armored vehicle (read tank) is vulnerable. Am I correct ? Please help me understand more; in Indian context. Pardon my lack of vocabulary.

Truck mounted guns are very mobile, so can evade counter battery fire. The armored vehicle is no protection from counter battery fire.

The truck mounted guns are specifically for mountainous areas of India. They can go where roads are available.

Tracked vehicles are cross-country but even tracked vehicles have little use in the mountains.

The government has also approved building a small number of Metamorphosis M-46 guns (mounted on Arjun chasis).

 

[Ray]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Procurement Nadir: India’s Murky, Messed-Up Howitzer Competitions

 

[Ray]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Any big gun that is not mounted on an armored vehicle (read tank) is vulnerable. Am I correct ? Please help me understand more; in Indian context. Pardon my lack of vocabulary.

Self propelled artillery is basically integral to armoured formation for the simple reason that it can keep pace with the armoured formations manoeuvre that towed artillery cannot.

Further self propelled artillery can come into action faster than towed artillery since towed artillery has to first 'limber up' before going into action and then 'unlimber' after the action.

SP arty can come into action almost immediately.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Taking a dig at me won't also help acquire the guns faster.

Perhaps using a bit of common sense in the MoD and army might help faster acquisition instead of getting into the bureaucracy.

If Croatia and Slovakia can build their own artillery system then you surely know we are doing something wrong. Now this craze for tender process is mind boggling so much that for the last decade correct me if i'm wrong its nearly 3 times these systems have been put on trial.

If you have the results of the past trials then MOD and Army knows which system suits our requirement then why need to restart the damn process.

Nothing to do with that "dig" part.

And I agree with, no need to start the whole process again.

 

[JBH22]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Nothing to do with that "dig" part.

And I agree with, no need to start the whole process again.

This problem will continue to sap defence establishment because we do not have "geopolitical" culture.

No concise senate like committee and even if we have one the last person to chair it was Raj Babbar. Now think how an idiot who was also a lousy actor to be well versed with issues such as Counter insurgency, cyber warfare topics etc.

Not to forget that indian bureaucrats who are responsible for acquisition of weapons (administrative works) can have various backgrounds such as processing tenders for cement etc.

Can India change I highly doubt.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

This problem will continue to sap defence establishment because we do not have "geopolitical" culture.

No concise senate like committee and even if we have one the last person to chair it was Raj Babbar. Now think how an idiot who was also a lousy actor to be well versed with issues such as Counter insurgency, cyber warfare topics etc.

Not to forget that indian bureaucrats who are responsible for acquisition of weapons (administrative works) can have various backgrounds such as processing tenders for cement etc.

Can India change I highly doubt.

If I am not wrong, we already talked before about defense and procurement policy.

I am definite it will get changed soon in PM Modi's govt.

But let them recover that ten years which previous govt has lost.

 

[Singh]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

I thought Kalyanis had already won the bid ?

 

[Singh]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

We need @deltacamelately sir on this thread, but anyways @mikhail why do we need so much field arty for western sector ? We are going in for cold start right ?

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

If I am not wrong, we already talked before about defense and procurement policy.

I am definite it will get changed soon in PM Modi's govt.

But let them recover that ten years which previous govt has lost.

Lost time cannot be recovered. You always have to start from today.

It is much easier for the government to give contracts to local companies. The international tenders are murky because the foreign companies are not afraid of Indian laws. Foreign companies indulge in all types of unfair means to swing deals.

The government has quickly addressed all the urgent needs of the military. Luckily navy and army are reasonable so they are getting focus and things have started moving fast for them. The government will continue to focus on local suppliers who can tie up with suitable foreign OEMs for technology or can develop complete products.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Lost time cannot be recovered. You always have to start from today.

It is much easier for the government to give contracts to local companies. The international tenders are murky because the foreign companies are not afraid of Indian laws. Foreign companies indulge in all types of unfair means to swing deals.

The government has quickly addressed all the urgent needs of the military. Luckily navy and army are reasonable so they are getting focus and things have started moving fast for them. The government will continue to focus on local suppliers who can tie up with suitable foreign OEMs for technology or can develop complete products.

Sir, no one can recover time. What I am saying here is those defense procurements deliberately got stalled during last govt, all of them get back on track again.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

Sir, no one can recover time. What I am saying here is those defense procurements deliberately got stalled during last govt, all of them get back on track again.

The BJP government has already put procurement on the fast track. GOI is proactively addressing bottlenecks. A number of projects of DRDO, DPSU and OFB have been cleared. You will not see all the stuff in the news.

 

[Rushil51]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

*prays to god that this tender does not get dragged on for 10+ years only to be scraped*

 

[Zebra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

The BJP government has already put procurement on the fast track. GOI is proactively addressing bottlenecks. A number of projects of DRDO, DPSU and OFB have been cleared. You will not see all the stuff in the news.

Sir, but still it will take time to come on policy reforms level.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

I believe we have a spoiled bunch of generals and another notoriously inefficient Babus in the Defence Ministry. It looks that the new Defence Minister has fallen victim to the machination of both these entities.

Now the procurement process for artillery guns would begin all over again. It would take three years before recommendation on Bharati, L&T or TATA supplied is made. The difference from this RFP and the previous one is that they have an Indian partner, although the guns are same either BAE or Austrian or Denel etc.

What a counterproductive decision by the Defence Minister when ready made 155/45 caliber Dhanush Howitzer is waiting to be ordered in greater number and Kalyani after transporting Noricum's whole manufacturing operation has been transported to India. They can begin manufacturing in less than a year.

If the spoiled brat of Indian Army is insisting on imported design then somebody should tell them that Dhanush and Kalyani are also imported design.

I believe that Indian Army wants a specific design. This they can have it only after they prove every other gun in the competetion is inferior. Which one is this gun, they have not said yet.

The new Defence Minister can use his authority and retire a few erring generals. Until then this indecision would continue and national security continue to suffer.

Plain and simple general bashing in abusive language without providing any proof of it, all arguments being baseless and speculative.

Are such rants allowed in the forum ??

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

What has happened to the big "self propelled "lobby" of the forum??

 

[mikhail]

Re: Manohar Parrikar clears proposal to acquire 814 artillery guns for

We need @deltacamelately sir on this thread, but anyways @mikhail why do we need so much field arty for western sector ? We are going in for cold start right ?

Sir,first of all we have to admit the fact that Pakistani Army has built an impressive artillery corp in the last 20 years.They have got nearly 800+ 155 mm towed and SPH(M-109 Paladin) deployed all along the western sector.Plus they have around 1000 or so Type-54,Type-59 and Type-60 field guns.So in order to counter such a massive and impressive enemy artillery we have to deploy at least equal amount of effective field guns and SPHs for an effective counter battery shelling.But unfortunately at this very moment we don't have any modern 155 mm artillery,the only thing that we have in decent numbers are the M-46 and the indigenous 105 mm Indian Field guns and Light Field Guns and hence we have deployed close to 2000 M-46 and I.F.G. along the western border.In the present scenario we are in no position to successfully implement any C.S.D. style doctrine due to the lack of good artillery guns hence we have deployed our artillery guns in defensive positions all along the western border as of now.