MAKE IN INDIA: US OFFERS TO JOINTLY MANUFACTURE FIGHTER JETS WITH INDIA

I_PLAY_BAD

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@I_PLAY_BAD
how else do you think us make all, you seriously dont believe theyre some kind of nice people that just help anyone without a interest. after all this is capitalism. wich says that everybody play for himself and earn money and is in competition with others and. is not like is not competition between countryes else i wonder why we still play soccer games between rivals. globalistation is a soft term for "competition outside border" wich means powerfull companyes that have capital can easily expand in third world countryes even if they say that " is not problem today all earth is a huge market we are all togheter " but what i really want to see is tehnical stuff on cheap price in india , life standards high , indian engeneers who work make and sell things in india , military own capabilityes , the posibility to have own social, political, ethical point of view.

Do business with a businessman. That is what I believe in. When you say powerful companies with huge capital their count is very less in India compared to other countries. The present government has to take steps to increase that count so that our guys will be able to compete globally and get the taste of globalization for real. Of course the culmination of all those efforts must be to make in India.
I like your future vision for India.
 

sorcerer

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Aha!! Sales pitch..

Buy or make US fighter.
Then we have to BUY the whole platform for network centric warfare to get the most out of the fighter...such arrangement will come with ROPES attached.
Not good...


Since India US now has a Aircraft carrier working group will they pitch for some naval variants?
A wicked idea to pitch in with the MAKE IN INDIA carrot.
 

Zebra

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Aha!! Sales pitch..

Buy or make US fighter.
Then we have to BUY the whole platform for network centric warfare to get the most out of the fighter...such arrangement will come with ROPES attached.
Not good...

Since India US now has a Aircraft carrier working group will they pitch for some naval variants?
A wicked idea to pitch in with the MAKE IN INDIA carrot.
:lol:

Looks like there is a budget crunch at the delay and cost overrun on the F-35, and now, they need some new candidates to fund their project.
Wow, network centric warfare that too F-16....! Never it heard before.

Anyway, today or tomorrow, India gonna sign those arrangements one day.
They have to, the situation is as such.
It is only about time now.

Btw UPA 2 were in minority govt, otherwise they were ready to sign it.
For your information.
 

charlie

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Wow, network centric warfare that too F-16....! Never it heard before.

Anyway, today or tomorrow, India gonna sign those arrangements one day.
They have to, the situation is as such.
It is only about time now.

Btw UPA 2 were in minority govt, otherwise they were ready to sign it.
For your information.
Well I don't think so, Indian military won't allow it, otherwise CISMOA would have signed long time ago.

The way US does business with Australia is different then the way it will do it with India, there will no TOT to India just assembly when it comes to manufacturing in India.
 

Zebra

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Well I don't think so, Indian military won't allow it, otherwise CISMOA would have signed long time ago.

The way US does business with Australia is different then the way it will do it with India, there will no TOT to India just assembly when it comes to manufacturing in India.
Sir, right now, they have their final assemblies in US. Then also they make few sub assemblies in India.

What you think, when they start their final assemblies in India then they gonna stop all those sub assembly works in India....?
 

sorcerer

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Wow, network centric warfare that too F-16....! Never it heard before.
Yes... F-16!!!!
Hear it now !!!!!!!

The U.S. version of the software underwent large-force operational testing during a recent Red Flag exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. Test pilots taking part in the aerial-combat exercise were networked through the software with a new tactical data link system, known as Link 16.

Later that month, the software upgrade was turned over to Air Combat Command officials for final operational field testing at Eglin AFB, Fla., and Nellis. It is expected to be fielded in U.S. F-16s in June, said Col. Mike Williams, F-16 system program director here.

He said as U.S. aircraft are fitted with the new software, data links and other subsystems, a number of European allies' F-16s are undergoing a scheduled upgrade with compatible capabilities. These improvements will give linked pilots what Colonel Williams called an unprecedented degree of connectivity with each other, command and control aircraft, and combined aerospace operations centers.

"These capabilities allow us to fight and win overwhelmingly on the battlefield," Colonel Williams said. "What's also great about this is that our unique multinational development program means the United States and our allies get this advanced technology and share in the cost of all the development work."

The F-16 was initially produced under an agreement with four other NATO countries: Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway. That consortium then funded, developed and produced an initial 348 F-16s, with an eventual total of 524, for the air forces.

Since that time, Portugal joined the group, and another 18 countries purchased the fighter. Many of these purchases included funding for major upgrades, or "blocks," which typically include improvements in structure, munitions, avionics, radar, software, computers and navigation systems.

Once the initial development and production of these improvements is complete, the new technology can be included in newer models or retrofitted as an "after-market" add-on to existing aircraft.

"One good example of how this works is the midlife update," Colonel Williams said. "The (update) was developed as an improvement to the original (allies?) jets.

"They're getting new mission computers that greatly increase software-processing power, color screens, Link 16, an air-to-air interrogator -- identification friend or foe -- and smart weapon technology,? he said. ?The (allied) countries (funded) this effort, which, in turn, saved scarce funding and yet provided a quantum leap in technology."

The U.S. version of the European updates uses a common implementation program, Colonel Williams said.

"We're using this to upgrade about half the existing U.S. F-16 models, for hundreds of millions of dollars less than if we'd developed all this by ourselves," he said. "In addition, this deliberate step to standardize the cockpits in all the newer jets will allow us to work together even more closely in the future as we design further improvements and plan out the F-16's future upgrades together."

With 1,360 F-16s making up 54 percent of the U.S. Air Force's fighter inventory, and nearly 2,000 more being flown by or produced for other friendly nations, such commonality means future coalition warfare will be more integrated. Colonel Williams said coalition forces using these F-16s will be full, combat-capable parts of the team and can share more of the warfighting burden.


The Link 16 data link capabilities are a part of network-centric warfare, Colonel Williams said

"What's also exciting is that the Link 16 and other new technologies are being developed and integrated for multiple weapon systems, including the newer F-16s, the F/A-22 Raptor and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter," Colonel Williams said. "This is a great example of how smart partnering allows us to get the most out of our acquisition dollars."

Courtesy of Lt. Col. Ginger Jabour - Air Force Materiel Command News Service.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1088.html


F-16

The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a 4TH Generation fighter which, as a result of multiple upgrades, continues to play an important role in the defense of the U.S. and its allies. From the program’s inception in the mid-1970s through 2008, 4,417 F-16s have been delivered worldwide, representing 30 years of continuous production deliveries. In June 2008, an undefinitized contractual action was signed for the foreign military sales procurement of 24 new F-16 Block 50 aircraft to the Kingdom of Morocco, the 25TH country to purchase this aircraft. In 2008, a total of 28 F-16 aircraft were delivered worldwide. Backlog at year end was 103 F-16 aircraft, including the 24 aircraft for Morocco.

Many technologically advanced multi-role capability improvements have been incorporated into new F-16 production aircraft as well as modification programs for in-service aircraft. Air-to-air and precision attack capabilities have been improved through the inclusion of new systems, sensors and weapons. Advanced electronic warfare systems have improved survivability. New fuel tank configurations have increased range and endurance. Modernized, upgraded engines have increased aircraft performance and improved supportability. Advanced communication links also have given the F-16 network-centric warfare capabilities.

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Lockheed_Martin_(LMT)/F-16

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Lockheed_Martin_(LMT)/Filing/10-K/2009/F1237567

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-NCW-JanFeb-05.html
 

sorcerer

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Well I don't think so, Indian military won't allow it, otherwise CISMOA would have signed long time ago.

The way US does business with Australia is different then the way it will do it with India, there will no TOT to India just assembly when it comes to manufacturing in India.

The history of f-16 is that its a NATO build aircraft.

Hmmm...India has to be very careful about the implications of this deal. This deal can change quite a lot of equations..
 

charlie

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Sir, right now, they have their final assemblies in US. Then also they make few sub assemblies in India.

What you think, when they start their final assemblies in India then they gonna stop all those sub assembly works in India....?
Well things don't work as you feel it should.

Let's says Boeing want to sell it's F18 to India, Boeing is a system integrator.

Boeing will allow India to make airframe and that's about it has to offer because rest of the component belongs to some other companies which India needs to make a deal with those companies and most of the time those companies will not agree for TOT.

Some major component can be manufactured like engines but India has to do contract with GE and that too it will only allow India to do assembly of engines nothing more then that.

I cannot give you a specific example but let's take a general example

Let's take Eaton Aerospace. It supplies Type II Hydraulic System for F18 or debris monitoring chip detectors for F414-GE-400 engine. do you think it will share it's tech with India or even with Boeing ?

India would have to chase each and every OEM to get a TOT and in this case it will more then 500.

So there is not much India will allowed to rather then making airframes and some assembly of major component.
 

Zebra

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Well things don't work as you feel it should.

Let's says Boeing want to sell it's F18 to India, Boeing is a system integrator.

Boeing will allow India to make airframe and that's about it has to offer because rest of the component belongs to some other companies which India needs to make a deal with those companies and most of the time those companies will not agree for TOT.

Some major component can be manufactured like engines but India has to do contract with GE and that too it will only allow India to do assembly of engines nothing more then that.

I cannot give you a specific example but let's take a general example

Let's take Eaton Aerospace. It supplies Type II Hydraulic System for F18 or debris monitoring chip detectors for F414-GE-400 engine. do you think it will share it's tech with India or even with Boeing ?

India would have to chase each and every OEM to get a TOT and in this case it will more then 500.

So there is not much India will allowed to rather then making airframes and some assembly of major component.
Sir, let LM, US and super duper Modi figure it out.




 

Zebra

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The history of f-16 is that its a NATO build aircraft.

Hmmm...India has to be very careful about the implications of this deal. This deal can change quite a lot of equations..
Sir, since when you become Russian troll.
 

sorcerer

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Sir, since when you become Russian troll.
When did you become an US Troll?

Just because people done agree with your POV doesnt mean that they are trolls.
Assumption my friend is mother of all fckups..

USA like everyone knows provides tech with strings attached...dont tell me you didnt know about it...

My intention was...a host of nations looks at your procurements and draws conclusions... dont tell me you didnt know about it either. You know how defense contracts affect alliances..dont you?

F-16 is a NATO Craft and its a sales pitch. You cant just look at it purely from the sense of business.
There is more to it..

Not F-16 IN.
You are talking about F-16V.
I was talking about the current trend of NCW...be it any aircraft will require NCW for improved situational awareness and coordination with others be it V or IN or any other alphabetical combination. My concern was how is this going to fit into Indian context.

Most of these aircraft you buy comes with support packages..and support packages cost more than the aircraft...

Google is your friend!!
 

pmaitra

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In light of this US troll/Russian troll debate, allow me to point out:

We just launched out GSLV-D6, with a cryogenic engine. The same engine whose technology Russia agreed to give us and the US blocked. Luckily, some of that technology was secretly shipped to India buy Russian scientists.

What if India failed make this cryogenic engine?

I suspect the US would have offered to launch India's satellites for an exorbitant price, and @Zebra would have posted a thread on how the US wants to "help" India, just like that F-35 sales pitch thread.

:truestory:

P.S.: To be fair, the thread or the opening post was not as much of a sales pitch, as the obdurate arguments that went defending it.
 

Zebra

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Well things don't work as you feel it should.

Let's says Boeing want to sell it's F18 to India, Boeing is a system integrator.

Boeing will allow India to make airframe and that's about it has to offer because rest of the component belongs to some other companies which India needs to make a deal with those companies and most of the time those companies will not agree for TOT.

Some major component can be manufactured like engines but India has to do contract with GE and that too it will only allow India to do assembly of engines nothing more then that.

I cannot give you a specific example but let's take a general example

Let's take Eaton Aerospace. It supplies Type II Hydraulic System for F18 or debris monitoring chip detectors for F414-GE-400 engine. do you think it will share it's tech with India or even with Boeing ?

India would have to chase each and every OEM to get a TOT and in this case it will more then 500.

So there is not much India will allowed to rather then making airframes and some assembly of major component.
Sir, come out of your old way of thinking. This is 2015 anyway.
India don't need to make those airframes at all.
Boeing will make it in India and supply it. At-least that is what I understand about 'Make in India'.
Correct me if I am wrong.

And whatever you said about other ancillary suppliers, for that matter, even HAL get something like these stuff from overseas.
And if I am not wrong, they don't cry for your "ToT" for each and every part / system what they import.
 

Zebra

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When did you become an US Troll?

Just because people done agree with your POV doesnt mean that they are trolls.
Assumption my friend is mother of all fckups..
You are a Russian troll. A PPP (Paid Puppet of Putin).

And if someone is against Russia, then automatically he / she become US troll, yeah?

USA like everyone knows provides tech with strings attached...dont tell me you didnt know about it...

My intention was...a host of nations looks at your procurements and draws conclusions... dont tell me you didnt know about it either. You know how defense contracts affect alliances..dont you?
So what...!

As far as your country is not a Russian slave country, US won't attack you anyway.

If strings attached, so be it. At-least India can stay away from socialist criminals, who butchered millions of their country people.

It is not good...?


F-16 is a NATO Craft and its a sales pitch. You cant just look at it purely from the sense of business.
There is more to it..


I was talking about the current trend of NCW...be it any aircraft will require NCW for improved situational awareness and coordination with others be it V or IN or any other alphabetical combination. My concern was how is this going to fit into Indian context.

Most of these aircraft you buy comes with support packages..and support packages cost more than the aircraft...

Google is your friend!!
F-16 is a NATO craft. So what...?

What India have to do with NATO....!

Even Russia itself was doing defence business with few major NATO countries till few months back. Not a single PPP (Paid Puppet of Putin) cried about it, I wonder.

Now all of sudden so-called NATO craft become untouchable for India...!
 
Last edited:

Zebra

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In light of this US troll/Russian troll debate, allow me to point out:

We just launched out GSLV-D6, with a cryogenic engine. The same engine whose technology Russia agreed to give us and the US blocked. Luckily, some of that technology was secretly shipped to India buy Russian scientists.

What if India failed make this cryogenic engine?

I suspect the US would have offered to launch India's satellites for an exorbitant price, and @Zebra would have posted a thread on how the US wants to "help" India, just like that F-35 sales pitch thread.

:truestory:

P.S.: To be fair, the thread or the opening post was not as much of a sales pitch, as the obdurate arguments that went defending it.

Cryogenic engine, nuke submarine, ToT, US string attached.

Looks like........ randi kya gati...! woh ka woh.

:tsk:
 

sabari

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Zebra said:
You are a Russian troll. A PPP (Paid Puppet of Putin).

And I am not happy to become PPP like you, then automatically I become US troll, yeah?



So what...!

As far as your country is not a Russian slave country, US won't attack you anyway.

If strings attached, so be it. At-least India can stay away from socialist criminals, who butchered millions of their country people.

It is not good...?




F-16 is a NATO craft. So what...?

What India have to do with NATO....!

Even Russia itself was doing defence business till few months back. Not a single PPP (Paid Puppet of Putin) cried about it, I wonder.

Now all of sudden so-called NATO craft become untouchable for India...!
Guise please stop fighting .if you need target neo .he is the stupid dog posting unnecessary thread
 

Zebra

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Guise please stop fighting .if you need target neo .he is the stupid dog posting unnecessary thread
My friend, I understand what you just said.

But these Russian trolls really sucks. Enough is enough now.
And that leader of the Russian Trolls is a Mod on DFI. :facepalm:

God save this country from these Russian trap.
 

sabari

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Russia Is going with China so its time for us to decide our needs . if f16 is better for that cost .we should go for it as it would send strong signal to Russia .who violate the agreement every time after getting full pay ment .and India is going to retire it mig21 if we start take with USA than France will be push to corner they will be force to make deal with India on our turmes
 

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