MAKE IN INDIA: US OFFERS TO JOINTLY MANUFACTURE FIGHTER JETS WITH INDIA

[pmaitra]

This concept is called "Advertising".......:bounce:

Advertising and "Thana Marketing" as well.

 

[Compersion]

Focus east India - also the ASEAN + others countries that can have support from closer India and USA relationship and manufacturing and also the supply and maintaince of weapon systems. I see in particlaur Orissa and MP in this convergence ... And perhaps north east Indian states for some big make in India projects with USA military complex

Also it is a fact that eastern India needs big military development and USA was positioned for that original after and during 1962 ... And india and USA needs to revitalise that and focus on that.

It cannot be a pan India military relationship it has to be step by step ... Also our other partners must be given chance and support

 

[Rowdy]

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[Adioz]

Also our other partners must be given chance and support

I agree. We should primarily focus on a close bilateral military alliance with Japan. Our international relations are superb and both populations respect each other's culture. We should, however refrain from a U.S.-Japan-India-Australia quadrilateral as that seems to be very China-containment-centric and can spook the Asian giant to pit India along with NATO as trying to contain its rise.

 

[Victor3]

in what terms do you all describe USA NATO europe and Russia ? friend foe or something between? for each of them?

 

[Adioz]

USA : Friend with 1 benefit and 2 drawbacks. Join the club and guarantee your victory and a strong military hardware but forget about your own political freedom and T.O.T.rison:

Russia : Friend in need (of a shipload of money) => paid friend.

Europe : Friend - the alternate to Russia and U.S. for almost every tech missing in our arsenal. No cause for political rift :biggrin2Except the Italian marines case - hang the fukers).
NATO: Europe in USA's pocket. 70% of global military spending and the political will of U.S.A. is supreme.

 

[Victor3]

i suppose you choose own style of politics and say bye to americans.

 

[Zebra]

USA : Friend with 1 benefit and 2 drawbacks. Join the club and guarantee your victory and a strong military hardware but forget about your own political freedom and T.O.T.rison:

Russia : Friend in need (of a shipload of money) => paid friend.

Europe : Friend - the alternate to Russia and U.S. for almost every tech missing in our arsenal. No cause for political rift :biggrin2Except the Italian marines case - hang the fukers).
NATO: Europe in USA's pocket. 70% of global military spending and the political will of U.S.A. is supreme.

* Sir, don't you think "victory" is more important....?

* And watch this video first and tell me which one is the biggest threat on political freedom....?


* ToT is a tricky part. Tell me what we did with oil ToT which we got...?

 

[Adioz]

And watch this video first and tell me which one is the biggest threat on political freedom....?

1. That guy was a member of an organisation that no longer exists. Hence his organisation is no longer a threat.
2. The country he served no longer exists, which is why its dirty laundry is available for scrutiny.
3. No one is innocent when it comes to external intelligence agencies. Everybody has a dirty baggage. You think CIA is a clean organisation where everything works like clockwork, where they follow the rules of engagement and respect human rights? Read this
4. Another point to consider, of the three spy scandals that have rocked R&AW, two involved Indian agents defecting to the CIA. (They were K.V. Unnikrishnan and Rabinder Singh)
5. U.S. is a big threat to our political freedom because, it is an international hegemonic state. You seem to be blinded by U.S. propaganda.

 

[Victor3]

"victory" of what? dont you understand that in this way you dont have a own point of view? you understand that in this way the economics of your country is make to only sustain some rich people from usa? you realize that in this way your own interests doesnt matter? and only that matter is the sustain of economics interest of usa?

 

[Adioz]

Sir, don't you think "victory" is more important....?

Yes I do think victory is of paramount importance, and we have the capability to achieve it on our own.
Stop hiding behind the skirts of U.S. thinking that they will save you if the Chinese decide to attack. A nation is itself responsible for its own defence. If we are to prevail in the future, we need to build up our own defence industry and that will not happen if we keep running to the U.S. for equipment that is top notch but comes with a very strict rule book. We do not need "U.S. equipment-the best in the world" right now, as our sole enemy and our rivals do not have a technology to rival that. We need to develop a capability to make our own equipment by the time our rival acquires such a capability.

ToT is a tricky part. Tell me what we did with oil ToT which we got...?

No country gives up critical components in TOT. But the non-critical components do help a lot.

 

[sob]

@Adioz Hold on to the wild horses. What capability are we talking about in India. We are not able to field an fighter aircraft after years and years spent on it. About other weapon systems lesser said the better.

do not downplay the quality of Chinese weapon systems being developed today. Many of them are at par with what the Americans are operating.

Developing Indian capability is not akin to putting on a switch and expect to see top of the line stuff coming out. There are many bottlenecks and constraints which have to be overcome. In the meantime if the US has top of the line stuff and we have the Dollars to buy it, why should we deny the very best to our armed forces?

 

[Adioz]

@Adioz Hold on to the wild horses. What capability are we talking about in India. We are not able to field an fighter aircraft after years and years spent on it. About other weapon systems lesser said the better.


Developing Indian capability is not akin to putting on a switch and expect to see top of the line stuff coming out. There are many bottlenecks and constraints which have to be overcome. In the meantime if the US has top of the line stuff and we have the Dollars to buy it, why should we deny the very best to our armed forces?

I agree. But we eventually need to get to that stage where China is about to reach and Russia and U.S.A. already are. Note the point: Russia has an availability and is willing to go for joint development stage. Do we give that up to jointly manufacture with U.S.? Yes what tech only the U.S. can provide should be sourced from there. e.g. the CATOBAR system and EMALS.

do not downplay the quality of Chinese weapon systems being developed today. Many of them are at par with what the Americans are operating.

I agree. And there are a few of our own systems that have achieved that stage, I believe. Examples:-
Shaurya, Brahmos, Pinaka. And we never talk about the sub-systems. Kanchan composite armour is one the very best in the world, is it not? Therefore I believe that maybe not today, but certainly in the near future, we will develop this capability to be one of the best. Remember, China was once at the stage where we are now.

 

[Victor3]

that is a matter of gestioning the human capital. after all humans are those who draw the electronics of a aircraft. once india had someone called bose (you know...that guy at the level of einstein) where are others like him in india because existence of bose showed that is in india high level human capital?

 

[Victor3]

this would be a nice subject for a new topic somewhere in the forum called "human capital in india smart people of india " or something like that

 

[Zebra]

1. That guy was a member of an organisation that no longer exists. Hence his organisation is no longer a threat.
2. The country he served no longer exists, which is why its dirty laundry is available for scrutiny.

The mentality is there , the way of thinking is still there.
That ideology is the biggest threat.

3. No one is innocent when it comes to external intelligence agencies. Everybody has a dirty baggage. You think CIA is a clean organisation where everything works like clockwork, where they follow the rules of engagement and respect human rights? Read this
4. Another point to consider, of the three spy scandals that have rocked R&AW, two involved Indian agents defecting to the CIA. (They were K.V. Unnikrishnan and Rabinder Singh)

Nobody is friend here. May be I am the poster who posted it many times.

5. U.S. is a big threat to our political freedom because, it is an international hegemonic state. You seem to be blinded by U.S. propaganda.

Sir, right now India is not on US side, that means India actually has political freedom, isn't it..?

Can we go for a war with our western neighbour? Being a sovereign country we don't need to inform anybody.
On top of it, we do have political freedom and we can attack any damn thing, yeah!

But, the fact is, we are not on US side, still we have to inform US before going for any type conflict that may turn out into war.

 

[Zebra]

You said it yourself : "We are offering to match what Russia offers you, in the hopes you will lean on towards our side."
But not entirely right:- If we co-develop fighters, it is a known fact that T.O.T. will only be nominal. Who knows when they might withdraw technical support as part of sanctions on Indian military to make us follow their political aim? If we buy U.S. hardware, there is no significant T.O.T. and you are forced to join the U.S. allied forces, damn the political views and objectives of your own country. We can not become a global lieutenant of the U.S.A.

Sir, now you started talking in pmaitra 's language.

 

[Victor3]

that freedom is always backup by weapons meaning who does not have a weapons is lost ...is subject of manipulation threat and intervention from states like usa

 

[Adioz]

The mentality is there , the way of thinking is still there.
That ideology is the biggest threat.

The same mentality is every where. Silent wars do not have rules of engagement.

Sir, right now India is not on US side, that means India actually has political freedom, isn't it..?

Can we go for a war with our western neighbour? Being a sovereign country we don't need to inform anybody.
On top of it, we do have political freedom and we can attack any damn thing, yeah!

But, the fact is, we are not on US side, still we have to inform US before going for any type conflict that may turn out into war.

1. We do not have political freedom only to wage wars. Do you remember the Iran sanctions issue and our stand on it?
2. We can, in theory attack Pakistan first and tell U.S. later. What can they do about it? Sanctions? Attack India? Support Pakistan with Military aid?

This world needs to be multipolar and hence U.S. hegemony is limited in time.

 

[Zebra]

The same mentality is every where. Silent wars do not have rules of engagement.

1. We do not have political freedom only to wage wars. Do you remember the Iran sanctions issue and our stand on it?
2. We can, in theory attack Pakistan first and tell U.S. later. What can they do about it? Sanctions? Attack India? Support Pakistan with Military aid?

This world needs to be multipolar and hence U.S. hegemony is limited in time.

I just said it............."Sir, now you started talking in pmaitra 's language."