Losing Faith in democracy

ajtr

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Fact is, something has to be done obviously every time i hear 1.4 trillion$ in swiss bank i get freaking pissed .

DO i vote ? yes i do... I use up my vote to vote no one..
then take up yhe cause of ur village with ur local mp/mla.Atleast one village will be do f9..now if people stats questioning there representatives then u can see the results too.But then we dont do do we???
 

Rebelkid

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then take up yhe cause of ur village with ur local mp/mla.Atleast one village will be do f9..now if people stats questioning there representatives then u can see the results too.But then we dont do do we???
I live in a village called Bangalore
 

ajtr

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atleast solve traffic problem in your village by questioning ur representative.:happy_2:
 

RAM

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Im still hopeful that democracy can deliver the desired results once/if we have a meticulous selection process to choose leaders on the basis of their performance than personifying them on a cultural/familial basis or purely becoz they are from a given National party.Accountability to their actions and an effective auditing process to their deeds can make a difference.we should hav a retrospective analysis how things were evolving in post- independence era ..we had Individuals from all walks of life in various capacities to lead us whith comphrehensive laws in place but never been executed or riddled in bureaucratic red tapes to be facilitated to the a normal citizen. Execution was below par and never scaled to the national expectations in the last 5-6 decades to the optimal democratic process as expected becoz of limitations of choices for common man than the very process.

Another aspect to be noted that these hallmarked national/regional parties had their own agendas than National/federal interests and with prevailing prospectus of subnationalism in various regions/social pockets -democracy was fatigued and have failed to reach its goals on a comparative time scale in the last 5-6 decades.However electronic revolution and innovative media in early 80s contributed indirectlyto feed the real story to the common man, to change his thought process in a diversed manner from his original postion of supporting/relating to existed polarised parties of those times.

And I think, With blossoming economy and an educated/more enlightened mainstream of bonafide citizens in another 20 years would mark a better democratic process than we can hope for.Rigoruos criteria(moral/ethical/competency skills) should be in place to qualify for the candidature even in the lowest form of electoral process which can be highly yielding in due course for National leadership though margin of errors will occur simply becoz we are talking of about 1+ billion individuals.
 
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Rage

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I would rather live in a dictatorship with food to eat than in a country which starves its people. To be frank, I don't think India is a free country. It is a country where the haves control and oppress the have nots. Do you think a poor tribal from a village has the same freedom as an educated urban middle class ?
You would rather live in a 'dictatorship' with food to eat? Go through the list of dictatorships in history and you will see that very, very few had lots of 'food to eat' . I garner your idea about totalitarian systems is based upon China. But that idea is based upon China now. Sixty years after it closed itself to the world, starved 90 million people to death and put them through strife and misery- unimaginable in the history of self-imposed human democides.

Do you think an urban worker in China in the 70's or 80's had the same freedoms as an Indian tribal? Tell me, do you think an urban worker in China today has the same political freedoms as an Indian tribal? Do you think that the rural tribal under Pakisthan's military dictatorships were any better off than a rural tribal under Indian democracy at the same time? An Indian tribal has 'voice', and nothing has oppressed freedoms, nothing has oppressed industry, nothing has oppressed entrepreneurships and growth as much as the lack of it. A little agitation gives vitatlity to souls, but it is not so much peace, as freedom, that allows people to prosper. China's economic sector has modernized today simply because it has allowed that- freedom. But dictatorships, most always and everywhere, do not allow that. You seem to have a false synonymousness between dictatorships and freedom.

Authoritarian systems are better at economic modernization, you say? Says who? Do yourself a favour. And take a look at the evidence:

D. Rodrik, "Goodbye Washington Consensus, Hello Washington Confusion," Journal of Economic Literature 44:4, 2006, 973-87


That is Statistical evidence of the myth, that democracies have never been able to provide for their citizens as well as authoritarian states or dictatorships...


Let me quote something to you, that speaks directly to this question of 'Losing Faith in Democracy':

"...The people make a mistake in its choice far less often than a prince, and a man of real worth among the king's ministers is almost as rare as a fool at the head of a republican government. So that it is, when by some lucky chance, one of these men who are born to govern takes control of public affairs in a monarchy that has almost been wrecked by this bunch of fine managers, people are all amazed at the resources he finds, and it is epoch-making for the whole country."


~ The Social Contract, Book III, Chapter 6.


The India you will see twenty years from now, when it will be at a par with China's length of economic modernization, will be very different from the India you see today. And it will have reached there without forcefully expropriating land everywhere, as China did in the early years of its modernization, without imposing Extra Budgetary Revenue, as China exacts from its rural peasants till today, and without engaging in mass democides of the scale, only totalitarian and authoritarian dictatorships have ever witnessed. Thence, again you will come full circle and say: truly, democracy was better than dictatorship.
 
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ajtr

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i,d love to, where is it...lol

whatever...we gotta do something
See its always comes to we....now if we only goes to vote once in 5 yrs and forget everything then where is ths system check on representatives we choose ....its the we public who are checks and balances of the democracy.now reverse the quote" yatha raja tatha praja"....As are the subject so is the king...coz in democracy king is chosen from the subjects only.
 

navida

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System is not flawed but the people are...
Yes. the system is not flawed.And it is suitable for an ideal land where the people are perfect. Not for a country with corrupt, illiterate and prejudiced people
 

Rebelkid

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See its always comes to we....now if we only goes to vote once in 5 yrs and forget everything then where is ths system check on representatives we choose ....its the we public who are checks and balances of the democracy.now reverse the quote" yatha raja tatha praja"....As are the subject so is the king...coz in democracy king is chosen from the subjects only.
But a large number of "we" can't read and write, how can u expect them to vote

@navida: no need to be so offensive at people f you don't know them, large number of people don't care and they are poor people according to western standards because they don't care about the system,they don't want to be part of the system, they just wanna live simple lives, material wealth is not for them. Western style of system is not applicable every where because many villagers and tribal's here do not prefer materialistic needs
 
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ajtr

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But a large number of "we" can't read and write, how can u expect them to vote
are you sure.2001 census puts indian literacy rates at 65%. so only 35% of india is illiterate.Even then problem in system is there then 65% of literate indians are responsible for it .we can excuse rest 35% of their ignorance due to illiteracy.so now ur premise that ur premise that democracy is not delivering due to illiteracy is wrong
 

Rebelkid

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are you sure.2001 census puts indian literacy rates at 65%. so only 35% of india is illiterate.Even then problem in system is there then 65% of literate indians are responsible for it .we can excuse rest 35% of their ignorance due to illiteracy.so now ur premise that ur premise that democracy is not delivering due to illiteracy is wrong
Yes the youth literacy is more than 80%, but do they vote ? are they educated enough about the politicians to not fall for their religious and caste bullshit
 

Rage

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Yes. the system is not flawed.And it is suitable for an ideal land where the people are perfect. Not for a country with corrupt, illiterate and prejudiced people
Democracy is suitable for places where the people are poor, illiterate, uneducated and vice-ridden. For, as much as you may think these people are "poor, corrupt and illiterate", they make the right choices when it comes down to things that are closely related and of intimate consideration to them.

A dictatorship under such conditions, would serve no better than to raise to power a corrupt, evil and degenerate tyrant far more often than a benevolent, generous one, who would oppress the people for his own ends and means, far more than he looked for their welfare. So it has been seen in the history of nations ever since the birth of civilization.

As much as you think democracy is imperfect, an authoritarian system is not the answer. Indeed, authoritarian systems have only prospered when they have allowed, some measure of that underlying principle of democracy: freedom, in certain arenas of their governance.
 
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Rage

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But a large number of "we" can't read and write, how can u expect them to vote

@navida: no need to be so offensive at people f you don't know them, large number of people don't care and they are poor people according to western standards because they don't care about the system,they don't want to be part of the system, they just wanna live simple lives, material wealth is not for them. Western style of system is not applicable every where because many villagers and tribal's here do not prefer materialistic needs
Rebel Kid,

the latest economic figures put Indian literacy rates at close to 80%.

The 2011 census will reflect that fact. But a 10-year old census is an unreliable estimate- when the country has more than doubled its per capita incomes- in the last six years alone.
 

Rebelkid

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Rebel Kid,

the latest economic figures put Indian literacy rates at close to 80%.

The 2011 census will reflect that fact. But a 10-year old census is an unreliable estimate- when the country has more than doubled its per capita incomes- in the last six years alone.
yea, but are some of the people smart enough to understand the bullshit of the politicians, though things have become better after 26/11 people still vote for the goons.
 

Rage

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yea, but are some of the people smart enough to understand the bullshit of the politicians, though things have become better after 26/11 people still vote for the goons.
That is because we have a 'problem of choice', not a 'problem of system'.

If you find that is the problem, that people continue to vote for corrupt goons, give yourself a chance and stand for office.
 

The Messiah

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Democracy is suitable for places where the people are poor, illiterate, uneducated and vice-ridden. For, as much as you may think these people are "poor, corrupt and illiterate", they make the right choices when it comes down to things that are closely related and of intimate consideration to them.

A dictatorship under such conditions, would serve no better than to raise to power a corrupt, evil and degenerate tyrant far more often than a benevolent, generous one, who would oppress the people for his own ends and means, far more than he looked for their welfare. So it has been seen in the history of nations ever since the birth of civilization.

As much as you think democracy is imperfect, an authoritarian system is not the answer. Indeed, authoritarian systems have only prospered when they have allowed, some measure of that underlying principle of democracy: freedom, in certain arenas of their governance.
This.

If im honest to myself then i myself recognize that im a tyrant in the making if im given absolute power in India. Id have all the anti-national and general ponces lined up against a wall and shot live on tv for all the country to see. I'd rather not list the other things i'll do....
 

Rebelkid

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That is because we have a 'problem of choice', not a 'problem of system'.

If you find that is the problem, that people continue to vote for corrupt goons, give yourself a chance and stand for office.
i,d love to, vote for me next time :emot180:
 

navida

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One thing I have noticed is, our people are very selfish. While in most of the countries, rich individuals donate their wealth, Indians just give it to their children. We have not concept of sharing the wealth.

Western schools teach the children the idea of giving back to their community . They have compulsory classes to serve the community. This would impart the sense of charity in future generations and reduce selfishness and corruption. We could start introducing such classes in our schools to make better citizens out of our people.
 

Rebelkid

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One thing I have noticed is, our people are very selfish. While in most of the countries, rich individuals donate their wealth, Indians just give it to their children. We have not concept of sharing the wealth.

Western schools teach the children the idea of giving back to their community . They have compulsory classes to serve the community. This would impart the sense of charity in future generations and reduce selfishness and corruption. We could start introducing such classes in our schools to make better citizens out of our people.
Such things are actually necessary , Such schooling will help the future generations
 

navida

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Rebel Kid,

the latest economic figures put Indian literacy rates at close to 80%.

The 2011 census will reflect that fact. But a 10-year old census is an unreliable estimate- when the country has more than doubled its per capita incomes- in the last six years alone.
Do you have a source for your claim?

The literacy among youth ie. below 20 is about 85%. The adult literacy stands at 65%

The world hunger index says India is home to the most hungry people in the world and it ranks below most of African nations and Pakistan , Srilanka and Nepal in the neighborhood.
 

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