Look beyond Rawalpindi - OpEd by Raja Mohan

[pankaj nema]

If the present situation is any indication then we can have ONLY the CURRENT level of peace.

Relations with Pakistan will not improve bcos even the younger generation has been totally brain washed

They openly talk of Nuclear war with India bcos they realise that pakistan will only go down and that they cannot halt India's rise

China WANTS Pakistan to become another North Korea , who will keep on harassing India, just as North Korea is harassing South Korea , with the assurance that China will save its a$$

Pakistan will HAPPILY PLAY the Chinese game for money

 

[Phenom]

That is the problem,
Because they're fed a lot of propaganda, therefore they become an enemy, India should then have a serious problem with Pakistani people !

Very true, I never understood the argument for distinguishing between the Govt and the People, especially when the Pakistani people have cheered and whole heartedly supported every act of aggression by their govt against India.
Atleast as far as India is concerned there seems to be little difference between the people and the military.

 

[Yusuf]

People like C Raja Mohan are left with just filling up newspaper od eds and coming on news channels giving their expert analysis. Its sad that such people dont form a kind of think tank like RAND which actually influences policy matters within the security framework of the country. Its part of lack of the security culture of India.

Raja Mohan has probably hinted at India playing its part in the separatist movement in Pakistan. Just forgot to add Balochistan in the picture but its surely there or it should be there in the security set ups mind. It surely is a way to put huge pressure on Pakistan. That India has not helped the Balochis in their struggle for freedom from the Punjabi Pakistan, though it was there for the taking for India given the history of Balochistan post 1947.

A multi pronged strategy is a must including helping the Pashtuns push to create their pashtunistan. This can be started by pushing the Afghan Govt to actually rake up the issue of durand line with Pakistan. A single statement from Karzai will set the ball rolling.

Unfortunately India is not doing even half of what Pakistan alleges India to be doing. The bloody intel agencies suck. If RAW today was half as good as the ISI, India would have managed to do a lot of damage to Pak on the Baloch and Pashtun front if India had earnestly pursued a policy of dividing Pakistan.

 

[Yusuf]

I would say a three-pronged strategy:

1. Draw Pakistan into an arms race that it cannot possibly sustain, given the present state of their economy
2. Tit-for-tat with support to Pashtun and Baloch separatists
3. Development and improvement of the human rights situation in Kashmir

Running them dry in an arms race is not going to happen. Pakistan has been blessed by benefactors who give them free weapons. Pakistan just about manages to find itself in the middle of a mess, with one or two super powers fighting proxy or direct wars and Pakistan benefited from it. China is the next superpower that will prop pak and keep it going against India.

 

[Tshering22]

1. Draw Pakistan into an arms race that it cannot possibly sustain, given the present state of their economy

Not possible. Pakistani generals know that they can never catch up with us conventionally and they also know one thing; never to bother doing that since they have a FIRST STRIKE doctrine and can get away with nuclear blackmail THANKS TO CHINA.

2. Tit-for-tat with support to Pashtun and Baloch separatists

No. Creating terrorism will be doing Pakistan's mistake despite watching them do it. Terrorism never lasts long. US did it and see what happened today. Same thing will happen with us. We should consider Israeli strategy here; pinprick strikes and return and then blame Pakistan. They cannot declare war if the strikes last only 10-20 minutes and then come back. Harrass their border troops with firing and possibly kill a few of them so as to up the psych war. Then again blame it on them. What can they do other than hate us which they already do?

Pinprick tactics is much more viable with a failed state that has no locus standi of existence apart from a religion-obsessed fundamentalist society that is radicalizing more and more by the day.

3. Development and improvement of the human rights situation in Kashmir.

UTTER BULLSHIT! Kashmir is like any other state in the country and the only reason Human Rights meddles there is because they are sold to the highest bidder for oil dollars a.k.a Saudi which is doing Pakistan a favour. They are never there when other communities are dying off and don't raise any comment but whenever something happens in the J&K or in Palestine, they shout at the top of their lungs.

Don't you see their bias? Human Rights is a sold out agency and hence not dependable. 95% of the cases against soldiers is false and is done to malign our image and help the terrorists get the state from us. Human rights is as much as any state is. Only reason why there's so much noise there is because it has a bunch of ******s who managed to get a grip on the state early while our coward spineless government did nothing to play dirty underhand politics. I would know it; my relatives who now live in Ladakh suffered what those ******* did.

Kashmir is perfect; only Pakistan has to be tackled by a genuine non-votebank government.

 

[Yusuf]

No. Creating terrorism will be doing Pakistan's mistake despite watching them do it. Terrorism never lasts long. US did it and see what happened today. Same thing will happen with us. We should consider Israeli strategy here; pinprick strikes and return and then blame Pakistan. They cannot declare war if the strikes last only 10-20 minutes and then come back. Harrass their border troops with firing and possibly kill a few of them so as to up the psych war. Then again blame it on them. What can they do other than hate us which they already do?

Supporting the separatist there is not creating terror. We are not going to support people who go to karachi and kill 200 people in their train stations and hotels.. Balochis have been fighting for their freedom from PakJab since 47. Pak took over it forcibly against the wishes of the people there and its ruler. The Pakistanis will counter the same with Kashmir, but we did have an accession to India signed before Indian forces went to Kashmir.

Pashtuns in Astan never recognized the Durand Line..give them a hand.. that is not supporting terror either.

 

[Tshering22]

If the present situation is any indication then we can have ONLY the CURRENT level of peace.

Relations with Pakistan will not improve bcos even the younger generation has been totally brain washed

They openly talk of Nuclear war with India bcos they realise that pakistan will only go down and that they cannot halt India's rise

China WANTS Pakistan to become another North Korea , who will keep on harassing India, just as North Korea is harassing South Korea , with the assurance that China will save its a$$

Pakistan will HAPPILY PLAY the Chinese game for money

My words exactly, Pankaj bhai. If we take any measure, the current Pakistani generation is far more radicalized and talibanized than their grandfathers from pre-independence era. Those were more liberal and open minded than what today's Pakistanis have become. Nuclear card is the gift that China gave them to make sure that a parallel DPRK runs in south because keeping others busy through proxies is the only way China can climb to the top. It learnt this game from USA pretty well but modified it with the nuclear card; because in our case, if Pakistan had not got nuclear bombs and had 26/11 happened, by now POK would have been ours while we would have torn through Pakistani conventional defences with ease.

Pakistan has multiple ways to die:

- print their currency counterfeit till their value shoots $ 1 = PNR 1,000 and make sure that their economy is never able to repay any of their debts.
- stop ALL TRADE with Pakistan to appease some traitor/radical sections in our society. Deccan Mujahideen, SIMI, etc are the kind I am talking about.
- ban ALL COMMUNICATION and contact with Pakistan completely. Except for the Sikh pilgrimage to Nankana Sahib, no other form of communication should occur. TV channels, phone lines, internet access; ban all of this and ensure that it remains on.
- weed out moles in our own country who work for them (Roy being a fine example) and make an example of them when the occasion arises rather than sticking to self-imposed political correctness.

No benefactor would be able to pull out Pakistan out of economical damage. Not even China. Remember, conventional/ nuclear war is not the only way you can destroy your enemy; all you need is focus, dedication and seriousness.
-

 

[Yusuf]

3. Development and improvement of the human rights situation in Kashmir

Nothing wrong with the human rights record there.. Its all propaganda supported by anti national media of India. Yes there may be a little roughness here and there and that is bound to happen when you are fighting terrorists, but its not like the entire army is on a rampage there. Indian Army deals with any rights abuse pretty severely.

Development is there. Kashmiris live a privileged life and are actually far better off than you and I. They can be even better off if they think about helping themselves than the terrorists and the likes of Geelani.

 

[Tshering22]

Supporting the separatist there is not creating terror. We are not going to support people who go to karachi and kill 200 people in their train stations and hotels.. Balochis have been fighting for their freedom from PakJab since 47. Pak took over it forcibly against the wishes of the people there and its ruler. The Pakistanis will counter the same with Kashmir, but we did have an accession to India signed before Indian forces went to Kashmir.

Pashtuns in Astan never recognized the Durand Line..give them a hand.. that is not supporting terror either.

You would also then know that Taliban has a large number of Pushtoons who hate us "kafirs" and therefore we cannot trust them of their intentions when it will change; there was one time when it stood along with USA saying that "Christian is people of the book and are better than kuffar Soviets". Today see what has happened. Pushtoons are not the negotiable type and I have seen some pretty adamant and self-smug of their kind. Their rigidity defies all lines of reasoning. Friendship is good with them but for them everything is either this or that; nothing in the middle to reason out.

Balochi people aren't democratic and even if we don't adhere to that thinking, they will use any measures to retaliate meaning that blowing up people and attacking other Pakistanis to cause anguish to their government. Balochistan's freedom movement came only when Pakistan ignored development in their region and kept it like Afghanistan with not even electricity and water despite the region being barren and having severe climate.

We should keep our hands clean from separatist movements because we are simply not good at it. Rather we must focus on complete economic and political destruction through sabotage and industrial assaults. Use economics as a weapon. Use trade with them as a weapon. Recent example of our STUPIDITY was inviting Pakistani traders to India for a trade fair. This sort of pseudo-pacifism has to stop.

Then read my response to Pankaj for further details.

 

[Yusuf]

Balochis have been at war with PakJab ever since 47 mate..check the baloch thread for more..How many Balochis have blown themselves up in Pakistans major cities? Also Taliban does not mean entire lot of the Pashtuns..All we want is a pressure point on Pak by Afghanistan asking Pak to renogotiate the durand line..Think of it the other way, it drives a wedge between the Pashtun Talibs and the Pakistanis. The Talibs either chose their homland or Pakistan. It will be the former.

 

[Yusuf]

Pakistan has multiple ways to die:

- print their currency counterfeit till their value shoots $ 1 = PNR 1,000 and make sure that their economy is never able to repay any of their debts.
- stop ALL TRADE with Pakistan to appease some traitor/radical sections in our society. Deccan Mujahideen, SIMI, etc are the kind I am talking about.
- ban ALL COMMUNICATION and contact with Pakistan completely. Except for the Sikh pilgrimage to Nankana Sahib, no other form of communication should occur. TV channels, phone lines, internet access; ban all of this and ensure that it remains on.
- weed out moles in our own country who work for them (Roy being a fine example) and make an example of them when the occasion arises rather than sticking to self-imposed political correctness.

No benefactor would be able to pull out Pakistan out of economical damage. Not even China. Remember, conventional/ nuclear war is not the only way you can destroy your enemy; all you need is focus, dedication and seriousness.
-

I dont think these are practical steps..i mean i dont think we will be able to influence their currency to a point of it being 1:1000.
Trade is a two way street. India can make more money from Pak than the other way around.

We cannot be selective in our "break all communications" thing. If we do that, Sikhs will not be able to go to Nankana Sahib as Pak will respond in kind by not allowing it.

 

[SHASH2K2]

- print their currency counterfeit till their value shoots $ 1 = PNR 1,000 and make sure that their economy is never able to repay any of their debts.
- stop ALL TRADE with Pakistan to appease some traitor/radical sections in our society. Deccan Mujahideen, SIMI, etc are the kind I am talking about.
- ban ALL COMMUNICATION and contact with Pakistan completely. Except for the Sikh pilgrimage to Nankana Sahib, no other form of communication should occur. TV channels, phone lines, internet access; ban all of this and ensure that it remains on.
- weed out moles in our own country who work for them (Roy being a fine example) and make an example of them when the occasion arises rather than sticking to self-imposed political correctness.

No benefactor would be able to pull out Pakistan out of economical damage. Not even China. Remember, conventional/ nuclear war is not the only way you can destroy your enemy; all you need is focus, dedication and seriousness.

None of these measures will ruin Pakistani economically. They still have many countries that will bail them out by giving them alms or aid .
What we need to do is to make them realize that if they do not rethink of policies against India we will break them into pieces. Till not we have been talking about such strategies and now time has come to put it into implementations with renewed . we have more than enough resources to fight this proxy war but if we play our cards well Pakistan will destroy itself. If Pakistan doesnt stop supporting separatism we should definitely pay them back in same manner .

 

[pankaj nema]

Pakistan has been harrassing India for its own pleasure

BUT There is a new school of thought gaining ground in the ISI PA terror combine .
which is that China is the new emerging power .And China wants India to be kept tied with Pakistan.

So this school of thought says that Pakistan can play this same anti India game for 50 years

This time for CHINESE PLEASURE

The North koreans and Pakistanis are exactly the same rentier states or client states of China.

With growing Chinese power these 2 would be further emboldened

We can safely assume more terror attacks in future

 

[Yusuf]

Pakistan has been harrassing India for its own pleasure

BUT There is a new school of thought gaining ground in the ISI PA terror combine .
which is that China is the new emerging power .And China wants India to be kept tied with Pakistan.

So this school of thought says that Pakistan can play this same anti India game for 50 years

This time for CHINESE PLEASURE

The North koreans and Pakistanis are exactly the same rentier states or client states of China.

With growing Chinese power these 2 would be further emboldened

We can safely assume more terror attacks in future

Right then, the answer is let there be no Pakistan.. Not in the current borders at least. Cut off their direct access to China then by taking back what is ours. though that is difficult in the present circumstances, but once that country is cut up, GB can be got over as well which is the key to any Chinese dominance of Pak or what is left of it.

 

[ejazr]

You can only use economic leverage if you actually have a strong economic relation.

There is no trade relation with Pakistan with India at the moment, then what leverage are we going to have. Cue this with the recent Chinese-Japanese spat and China stopping ecport of rare earth metals to press their point. This is how economic leverage can be used.

Besides, in the current setup in Pakistan, does India really have to do anything to reduce the economic activity in Pakistan? Its already under 2%, power crisis and insecurity that is sapping economic growth. Wtihout India doing anything, this is the situation.

Raja Mohan was part of the National Security Advisory board between 2004-2006 and obvioulsy had a lot of input in policy making during this era. This is when a lot of work was done on Kashmir as well and a deal was almost ready to be signed until Musharraf was kicked out.

 

[Tronic]

We cannot be selective in our "break all communications" thing. If we do that, Sikhs will not be able to go to Nankana Sahib as Pak will respond in kind by not allowing it.

Pakistan will not do that; currently they are trying to project themselves as a more "Sikh-friendly" country than India. Basically, all the Sikh demands made before the 1980s secessionist movement from India, have been put in place by Pakistan. The Sikh demand for a separate Sikh marriage law which was turned down by New Delhi, was enacted in Pakistan as the "Anand Karj Act". During the Pakistan floods, Sikh community abroad played a major part in flood relief; first helping the Sikhs of Pakistan, than extending aid to the others. Moreover, major Sikh functions actually get more security presence their, than the local Muslim religious functions. Sikh events are protected by the Pakistani Rangers. Though a parade on Gurpurab was not allowed by the government to take place, since they could could not guarantee that it wouldnt be attacked by militants; and such attacks dent Pakistan's image among the community.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

pakistan should be payed back in their same coin.the RAW should resume its covert operation in GB,POK,BALOUCHISTAN.also it should be backed by cyber espionage.if they wants to bleed india though a thousand cuts, then we should bleed them by 10000 cuts.also there is a huge anti-pakistan movement in the above mentioned areas,we can leverage it to humiliate them by repeating the feat of 1971.

 

[Yusuf]

Tronic praa, they may well allow pakistani sikhs but stop any movement from India.

 

[Tronic]

Tronic praa, they may well allow pakistani sikhs but stop any movement from India.

No, that is what I'm trying to say. They are trying to reach the entire community and keep them distinct from the wider Indo-Pak politics; which is a game of politics in itself. Pakistan was once the training ground for thousands of Sikh militants and it is common knowledge in Punjab that all the border areas were corridors for the "kharkus". Even today, some of the top Khalistani militants, leaders of groups such as Babbar Khalsa Interntational, all live in Pakistan. Wadhawa Singh Babbar, one of the biggest Khalistani terror chiefs is living comfortably in Pakistan. This is the man whose militant group blew up the Air India plane over Ireland killing over 329 people. He's also the one, whose group assassinated the than Chief Minister of Punjab, Beant Singh. Another man, Gajinder Singh, whose group hijacked the Air India plane in 1981 and flew it to Lahore; he too has never again stepped foot in India and lives a comfortable life there. The rest of the crew who was responsible for the hijacking all fled to foreign countries from Pakistan. Lakhvir Singh Rode, leader of International Sikh Youth Federation, another terrorist group, lives in Pakistan. Paramjit Singh Panjwar, the chief of Khalistan Commando Force, a group which routinely carried out bombings and assassinations of Hindu political figures, also enjoys his life in Pakistan. Ranjit Singh Neeta, the chief of Khalistan Zindabad Force, too lives in Pakistan. The list goes on and on. It is no coincidence that Indian intelligence has pointed towards the Khalistani groups joining hands with other Pak-sponsored groups such as LeT. Pakistan is trying to revive Sikh militancy, and for that, it is trying to project itself as a "friend" of the wider Sikh community. It is the one reason, they were discussing lifting visa restrictions for Sikh pilgrims to Pakistan, despite the Indo-Pak relationship.

 

[johnee]

Yusuf,
some very valid points put forth very lucidly.