Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

[asianobserve]

Whos's telling the truth? i want to know

Rafale v Typhoon v F22 and the rest...Was there ever a conclusion? - Page 25 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

This may seem more probable. After all the F22 has TVC while Rafale has none. This feature alone (provided both parties turned off their most sensitive sensors) will give the F22 significant advantage over the Rafale in a classic dogfight.

 

[p2prada]

It is not just TVC. The F-22 has much better kinematic performance with it's more powerful engines.

Rafale needs new engines to match. Overall I guess Rafale is the better WVR performer, if given new engines.

 

[asianobserve]

It is not just TVC. The F-22 has much better kinematic performance with it's more powerful engines.

Rafale needs new engines to match. Overall I guess Rafale is the better WVR performer, if given new engines.

(I think .... ) "xxx if given new engines and TVC."

 

[Drsomnath999]

well to be honest i think F22 may have a get a kill but who knows the truth .,in the end i would say Rafale did perform superbly though
even 4 nulls is also quite an achievement of course the fight was in with in visual range

 

[asianobserve]

This air show footages of F22 and Rafale demos will give a hint on how they will perform in classic dogfight (WVR) against each other... (enjoy)


vs.

 

[asianobserve]

Of course since the engagement was Within Visual Range...

 

[asianobserve]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

Combat Edge Anti-G Ensemble Might be Causing Raptor's Oxygen Woes
By: DAVE MAJUMDAR
Combat Edge anti-g ensemble might be causing Raptor's oxygen woes


The Combat Edge upper pressure-garment worn by US Air Force pilots flying the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor might be the cause of the fifth-generation fighter's oxygen maladies, sources say.

While pilots need counter-pressure from the vest-like pressure garment to exhale at low cabin pressures found in the Raptor's cockpit, the Combat Edge and associated breathing systems might be providing too much pressure especially under g-loading.

"It just seems a little weird to breathe of off this thing," one source says. "Because you can't expand your lungs as easily because you have something restricting you."

The extra load imposed on the pilots by the added pressure under g-forces could be causing them to "over-breathe the system".

A compounding factor may be a condition known as acceleration atelectasis. The condition causes the pilot's lungs to have trouble bringing oxygen to the blood system because pure oxygen--93% oxygen in the Raptor's case-- and high gravity loads set up the pilots for a condition where the air sacs in the lungs suffer partial collapse.

The result of acceleration atelectasis is the so called "Raptor cough"-where F-22 pilots have a pronounced cough as the pilot's body attempts to re-inflate the sacs under normal atmospheric pressure on the ground.

Earlier tests would not have caught the problem because the breather device used to test the Combat Edge system does not compensate for pilot's lungs being unable to expand as readily. The breather device always draws the same volume of air.

A lack of ability to test for restricted expansion kept the condition from being seen as a problem. The restricted breathing could lead to hyperventilation symptoms or even bigger issues if the pilot is suffering from acceleration atelectasis.

However, the source says, the pressure-garment problem has been a known concern since at least 2000 when a similar garment provided by Boeing was being flown. But at that time, the USAF did not believe that the extra pressure was a serious concern. Now however, the USAF is starting to believe that the Combat Edge is behind the Raptor's woes. But while current USAF research is pointing to the Combat Edge as the primary culprit behind the F-22's maladies, the source says that it is probably only part of the problem.

Unlike U-2 pilots, who fly only after a several-day rest period after each flight, F-22 pilots will sometimes fly more than once a day. This means that the pilots are flying before they fully recover from the effects of acceleration atelectasis. Thus when they are g-loading in flight, they are further exposed to the pressure from the Combat Edge and their breathing device. The exposure to maximum oxygen while already suffering from acceleration atelectasis means even less oxygen saturation for the pilot. The sum total can result in the "hypoxia-like" physiological symptoms that have been vexing F-22 pilots for the past year.

"It was an annoyance issue, but an annoyance issue after you were on the ground," the source says. "But there is no exposure limit on these guys and early on a double turn was a rarity."

Ironically, some of the safety measures that the USAF added after the service lifted the grounding such as flying with a negative-pressure carbon-filter--which is having oxygen pushed through it under pressure-- and with the oxygen system set on maximum at all times probably exacerbated the problem, the source says.

One possible solution might be the new pressure-garment designed for the Lockheed Martin F-35, which could potentially solve the some of the pressure issues. But F-22 crews may need to take a 24h break between flights, the source says. That would cause a sortie generation problem, however.

Officially, the USAF maintains that it has yet to find the root cause of the oxygen-system problem. "Our risk mitigation and data collection are evolving based on our experience and [Secretary of Defense] guidance. Analysis of the data is getting us closer to identifying a root cause or causes, although we don't have preliminary results or a projected completion date to share at this time," the USAF says.

Meanwhile, pilots flying the F-22 have not suffered any new unexplained hypoxia-like physiological incidents in nearly three months, the service says.

"We haven't had an unexplained physiological incident since 8 March," the USAF says.


I guess fighter technology is already well beyond the limit of ordinary human endurance. It's either we genetically modify some humans to handle the extreme conditions and performance of new fighters or just fly them by remote control.

 

[Damian]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

Damn, it will be interesting if in the end the problems were not caused by OBOGS failures but that thing mentioned in article...

But Yeah I agree, it might be a time that UCAV's will dominate sky not manned aircrafts.

 

[asianobserve]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

Oxygen Failings of F-22 Solved, Pentagon's Little Says - Bloomberg

Oxygen Failings Of F-22 Solved, Pentagon's Little Says
By David Lerman - Jul 25, 2012
Bloomberg


The Air Force is correcting oxygen troubles on Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT)'s F-22 fighter by replacing a valve in pressure vests worn by pilots at high altitudes, Pentagon spokesman George Little said.

The announcement today was aimed at resolving a yearlong mystery over why at least a dozen pilots flying the F-22 Raptor became dizzy and disoriented, a condition called hypoxia.

xxx

 

[Razor]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

Pentagon: Blame Tight Vests, Not Stealth Jets, for Choking Pilots

The mysterious engineering problem causing F-22 Raptor pilots to choke in their cockpits has been solved, the Pentagon says. And it's not the nearly $400 million aircraft's fault after all.

The problem lies with a valve in the pressurized vest pilots wear as they fly the jet at high altitudes, Pentagon spokesman George Little said. The valve inflated the vest, limiting the pilots' oxygen supply. It does not appear that the vest was affecting quality of the oxygen in the Raptor. The valve will be replaced; the garment's use will be "suspended," Little said.

Additionally, the Air Force has decided to remove a filter it placed in the jet to test the oxygen quality. Ironically, the filter ended up limiting the oxygen supply to the pilots. But the charcoal filter resulted in "no oxygen contamination," Little told reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday.

Accordingly, the Air Force will gradually take its premiere stealth jet off of the probation that the so-called "hypoxia" incidents — a term indicating problems with the oxygen in the cockpit — necessitated. Over an unspecified period of time, the F-22 will no longer be restricted to flying short missions at low altitudes near air bases. The first indication that the jet is off probation will be an imminent flight of an F-22 squadron over the Pacific to Kadena Air Force Base in Japan — which will occur at a "lower altitude," Little said.

Asked why the oxygen problems weren't discovered earlier, Gen. Norton Schwartz, the retiring Air Force chief of staff replied, "This is a unique aircraft"¦ There were aspects of this, from the physiological point of view of the aviator, [that] weren't well-enough understood."

Read More at Source = Wired (Danger Room)

 

[Damian]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

Damn... little valve, not even being a part of aircraft done so many problems.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

When this news came up it was strange as IAF MIG-25 takes repeated sorties so does Russian Airforce in there cold-war era..

Mig-25 fly way more above than F-22 at higher speeds..

 

[Vladimir79]

Re: F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

It sounds more like passing the buck to me based on this report.

Panetta Approves Plan To Lift F-22 Limits | Defense News | defensenews.com

Two other incidents not related to that and testing at low altitude does not sound like the problem is resolved

 

[average american]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

The date on these posts show 10-9-12 I thought this was 9th month, think today is 911 11th year from 911 attack. Anyway I am not an expert on air combat,,, my understanding is radar and IRST, sound, emissions etc of F22 and F35 have been reduced to about to a fraction of that of other planes useing the knowledge gained from the rather sucessful production of six operational versions of stealth planes. The F22 and F35 are designed to detect and evade enemy planes while fireing missiles. My understanding those missiles can be programed to go to a certain location and activate optically along with other means and then detect and destroy a target. The F22 for example may be using target data from a F22 or AWACS or a drone much further away... Even if F22 is using its on radar it can beam the radar and be very hard to detect. I expect they are people here that can go into much greater detail then me. In the end an enemy you cant see is going to very difficult to kill. There has not been a dog fight or plane shot down by cannon fire for over 20 years and very few for the 30 years befor that. I am almost certain the reason we wont sell the F22 to any ally is that it has secret technology we dont want to disclose, I expect its some kind of directed EMP weapon. Trying to find and target an F22 is going to be finding and targeting a Bumble Bee going MACH 2 fifty or sixty miles away in an unknowen direction. An F22 at 50,000 feet going near MACH 2 launch a missile for over a hundred miles.

Now they show 11th month thats weird.

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

The date on these posts show 10-9-12 I thought this was 9th month, think today is 911 11th year from 911 attack. Anyway I am not an expert on air combat,,, my understanding is radar and IRST, sound, emissions etc of F22 and F35 have been reduced to about to a fraction of that of other planes useing the knowledge gained from the rather sucessful production of six operational versions of stealth planes. The F22 and F35 are designed to detect and evade enemy planes while fireing missiles. My understanding those missiles can be programed to go to a certain location and activate optically along with other means and then detect and destroy a target. The F22 for example may be using target data from a F22 or AWACS or a drone much further away... Even if F22 is using its on radar it can beam the radar and be very hard to detect. I expect they are people here that can go into much greater detail then me. In the end an enemy you cant see is going to very difficult to kill. There has not been a dog fight or plane shot down by cannon fire for over 20 years and very few for the 30 years befor that. I am almost certain the reason we wont sell the F22 to any ally is that it has secret technology we dont want to disclose, I expect its some kind of directed EMP weapon. Trying to find and target an F22 is going to be finding and targeting a Bumble Bee going MACH 2 fifty or sixty miles away in an unknowen direction. An F22 at 50,000 feet going near MACH 2 launch a missile for over a hundred miles.

Now they show 11th month thats weird.

There is a difference between date format of UK and US. Since India follows British English, forum date is displayed according to the UK date format.

Here is more info.

Date format by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[average american]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

There is a difference between date format of UK and US. Since India follows British English, forum date is displayed according to the UK date format.

Here is more info.

Date format by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks I forgot about that.

The USA has now flew more then 15000 sorties useing the F22, against every scenario that our best people that know US air stratgy can come up with, against every combination of threats including ground to air, all kinds of odds and so far the F22 cant be defeated. About the only weakness thst cou\ld be exploited would be the tankers supporting the F22 and I doubt if thats possible.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

Thanks I forgot about that.

The USA has now flew more then 15000 sorties useing the F22, against every scenario that our best people that know US air stratgy can come up with, against every combination of threats including ground to air, all kinds of odds and so far the F22 cant be defeated. About the only weakness thst cou\ld be exploited would be the tankers supporting the F22 and I doubt if thats possible.

I just wanted to ask that whether J-20 and PAKFA too can claim invincibility over all other US aircraft?

Does US have any counter measures against them?

Please explain the shooting down of F-117 5th gen stealth over serbian airspace with SA-16 missiles . How can it happen?


Also 5ht gen may be the F-22, No one denies it.But it uses the same 4th gen ASEA radar craft to track and detect targets and guide their BVR.

However advanced may be aesa the basic fact is for a radar to have a detection range of 200 kms its transmitting range must be twice that i.e 400 kms as per all authentic source.


So an how can tracking radar fend of EW counter measures and long range bvr shots with heat seeking missile.


Also you claimed that F-22's jet blast's (300 kn blast of fuel heat) is reduced only by 40% with heat suppression measures.Is that true or not.

If that is true then how can you claim it is IRST stealth. And if that is not true then what is the value of the fraction?


Then according to rules of thermodynamics there is no way in the world that you can use the 300 kn thrust from F-22's engine with out letting out monumental amount of heat.


Heat and energy are inseparable. And any stealth UCAV or 4th gen fighter with fully evolved IRST payloads ( LCA or GRIPPEN or sukhoi or anything)
can accurately pinpoint its position if enough technology is applied in future.


This is as far as I know . If you have any news to the contrary please post.


And however much F-22 reduces heat on its airframe surface through pumping fuel beneath it and taking it off. It may never be as efficient for 100 percent concealment of surface heat signature.

The F-22 does have the pest cooling solution for it's surface. But as I have studied thermodynamics there is no system that can remove the heat on the same fraction of the second as it gets generated. There will be enough heat left for detection.

The F-22 can remove a good fraction of the heat. But never 100 % to claim invincible stealth.

Thanks

 

[average american]

To be honest I dont know.. Some of the things I have learned, is no plane is invisable, just reduced such as the F22 radar compared to other planes is .just a small fraction of another plane, its IRST signature is 30 percent of other planes, it radar emissions are directed and reduced. Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Planes less stealthy have flowen thousands and thousands of missions and never been shot down. Out side of Moscow, Baghdad was the most defended city in the world and they never shot down a stealth plane. But they can be detected if they are near a target or use the same path to get to a target. Such as the F117.....F-22A Raptor Home-The Site of the 21st Century Fighter

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f22/

Remember this is the sixth and 7th generation OPERATIONAL stealth plane the USA has been building for over 30 years. A lot was learned in that time, not only from these planes, but other prototypes and drones.

Global Hawk Gets Death Ray
by James Dunnigan

January 2, 2007

Discussion Board on this DLS topic

High resolution radar is being installed in a Global Hawk UAV. This Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar consists of thousands of tiny radars that can be independently aimed in different directions. An AESA radar was used on the JSTARS aircraft, enabling it to locate vehicles moving on the ground. A new AESA radar for JSTARS enables them to spot smaller, man sized, objects. AESA type radars have been around a long time, popular mainly for their ability deal with lots of targets simultaneously, and produce a more accurate picture of what is out there.

A sufficiently powerful AESA radar can also focus enough energy to damage aircraft or missiles. The U.S. has already been doing this with the high-powered microwave (HPM) effects generated by similar AESA radars used in F14, F35 and F22 aircraft. This is sort of like the EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) put out by nuclear weapons. AESA has demonstrated that it can disable missiles and aircraft. AESA in a Global Hawk could disable electronics on the ground.

The air force has said that the larger AESA radar it plans to install on its new E-10 radar aircraft would be able to zap cruise missile guidance systems up to 180 kilometers away. The E-10 AESA is several times larger than the ones found in fighters and the Global Hawk, so make your own range estimates.

 

[p2prada]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

deleted.....

 

[ice berg]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

By the way 1700 F-35s are ordered throughout the globe. You may find some answers,perhaps. which has lower combat specs than LCA due to power requirement for cooling and aerdynamic compromises for stealth,
Go and ask these people, why are you ordering smaller radar single engine craft?
Ask them why are you not building twin engined big radar stealth in place of this single engined smaller radar stealth?

It is called high-low mix. F22 in the high end and f35 in the lower end.