Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

Kunal Biswas

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F22 Raptor Exposed - Why the F22 Was Cancelled

F22 Raptor Exposed - Why the F22 Was Cancelled

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaoYz90giTk

Wasteful F22 Raptor Program Terminated. On the Rachel Maddow Show.
The F22 Raptor Fighter Jet Program is has been a Grand Failure says Official Pentagon Officials. The F22 Raptor was Cancelled last year due to to Production Short Falls.

Read the Washington Post Article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/09/AR2009070903020.html

:wave:





PAK-FA RULES!!!
:becky:
 
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SHASH2K2

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Its not under any production anymore. You may call it as cancelled or not in production .
 

mattster

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They have already built 187 of these planes for the USAF. They cost about 300 mil a piece. They cant really sell them to other countries because they dont want to part with the technology.

So what are you supposed to do. The plane is not cheap and they wont sell it to anyone. They have built enough for their own needs, and so they shut it down.

What what do you expect them to do - just keep the workers and production line open, and twiddle their thumbs ??
 
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p2prada

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The real price is 144Million. 300 Mill is the program cost.
 

john70

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F22 raptor defies gravity

A new vid of F22 RAPTOR at some tasty highlites from last weekends Capitol Air Show. Brought to you by the USAF

 
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indian_sukhoi

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Great flying



About the F-22 maneuvers, Even the Su-27 could execute cobra maneuver
 

niharjhatn

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Sad that such a great plane is out of production... US is hedging its bets on the JSF.

Seems to be a tale of US defence R and D - spend $$$$$ coming up with an excellent product, then deem it not financially stable for long term use. The same thing has happened continually with the m16/m4 carbine replacements - initially with the XM8 and OICW program, and nothing really has happened on that front. The US seem to be moving towards the Belgian FN SCAR and Magpul ACR.
 

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F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious 'Raptor Cough'

As the Air Force searches desperately for the source of a mysterious and potentially deadly oxygen system problem in its $79 billion fleet of F-22 Raptor fighter jets, it is also investigating why the jets' pilots are coughing so often after missions that the pilots have taken to calling it the "Raptor cough."

For decades pilots in fighter jets have been contending with temporary fits of coughing after executing extreme maneuvers in the air, due to a known condition called acceleration atelectasis, but an Air Force spokesperson told ABC News that the coughing appears to be more prevalent in F-22 pilots.

And while the current thinking by the Air Force is that the F-22 pilots suffer more bouts of coughing than their counterparts is because the F-22 can fly at more extreme speeds and altitudes, Air Force spokesperson Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis told ABC News that the service has not discounted the possibility that toxins that may have leaked in to the oxygen system could be exacerbating the coughing.

The leakage of toxins into the oxygen system is also a possible cause of F-22 pilots experiencing dangerous "hypoxia-like symptoms" while flying the Raptor in more than two dozen cases since 2008, as reported in a recent ABC News' "Nightline" investigation. Hypoxia is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain and is characterized by dizziness, disorientation, poor judgment and, eventually, unconsciousness.

Last year the Air Force grounded the full fleet of F-22s, which cost U.S. taxpayers more than an estimated $420 million each, for nearly five months to investigate what was causing the incidents, but never could come up with an answer and sent the planes back in the air.

Over the weekend, one of two F-22 pilots who spoke out publicly to CBS News' "60 Minutes" about their fears of flying the F-22 linked the "Raptor cough" with other symptoms associated with the "hypoxia-like" incidents, saying that in a room full of F-22 pilots, "the vast majority will be coughing a lot of the time."

Sholtis said that there are no hard numbers on how many F-22 pilots are experiencing the "Raptor cough," but said it's obviously "common enough to have developed its own moniker."

Last week the Air Force officially received the last F-22 Raptor from defense contracting giant Lockheed Martin, completing an order of 187 planes that cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $79 billion – meaning that including research, development and production among other costs, each plane has a price tag of more than $420 million. Despite being the most advanced fighters on the planet, none of the planes have been used on a combat mission since they went combat-ready in late 2005.

Sholtis also revealed another twist in the F-22"²s case this week when he told the Air Force Times that over a period of four months after the grounding last year, ground crews reported at least five different incidents of experiencing their own "hypoxia-like symptoms" while running engine tests with the planes on the tarmac. No similar incidents have reported since, Sholtis told ABC News.

The F-22 Raptor is designed to feed its pilots air by pulling oxygen from the engine combustion system and filtering out any dangerous fumes or chemicals. Known as on-board oxygen generation, which differs from previous planes' systems that used air from inside the cockpit as part of the oxygen delivery, the system is meant to allow the planes to fly through noxious or poisonous air without endangering the pilots.

But in addition to the apparent possible leaks in the system, it is also designed so that if there is a catastrophic problem with the engine, the whole system can shut down — leaving the pilot to basically suffocate until he can bring the plane down to breathable air or manually activate the emergency oxygen system tucked into a corner of the cockpit.

That's what the Air Force said happened to Capt. Jeff Haney just before he crashed his F-22 Raptor in the Alaskan wilderness while on a training mission in November 2010. Even though the plane shut down Haney's oxygen, an Air Force investigation board found that, among other factors, Haney was to blame for the crash for being too distracted by his inability to breathe.

After the "Nightline" and "60 Minutes" reports, Air Force Air Combat Command head Gen. Mike Hostage released a statement expressing the service's "confidence" in the beleaguered jets.

"We live in a community where risk is part of our lives," he said. "If we think the risk has gone to a level where we just can't accept it, we either reduce that risk or eliminate it. But right now, we believe that risk — although it's not as low as we would like it — is low enough to safely operate the airplane at the current tempo."

Hostage said he would soon hop in the cockpit of a Raptor himself to help him understand what the pilots are facing and not stop flying until a solution to the mystery problem was found.

"I'm asking these guys to assume some risk that's over and above what everybody else is assuming, and I don't feel like it's right that I ask them to do it and then I'm not willing to do it myself — that's not fair," he said.

The Air Force has always maintained that the "hypoxia-like" incidents happen in exceedingly rare circumstances — 25 cases compared to the thousands of missions flown without incident – and they have installed a number of safety precautions to mitigate the danger.



F-22 Fighter Pilots Battle Mysterious ‘Raptor Cough’ | idrw.org
 

maomao

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F-22 Raptor pilots make problems public

The Air Force late last month convened a summit in Ohio to address the most vexing problem of its premier jet fighter - pilots becoming dizzy from oxygen deprivation while flying the supersonic F-22 Raptor.

Scientists, manufacturers and Raptor pilots at Wright-PattersonAir Force Base brainstormed on why aviators - 25 to date - are returning from missions suffering from hypoxia, or oxygen deprivation.

"It was an update on where we were at," said Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis, a spokesman for the Air Force Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base. "We're kind of closing in on some ideas."

The Air Force hopes information-sharing, such as the April 26 Wright-Patterson summit, will show the 200 Raptor pilots, support crews and families that everything possible is being done.

For two pilots, the strategy didn't work. Dressed in flight suits, the two Virginia AirNational Guard pilots engineered an embarrassing event for the Air Force: They appeared Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes."

Maj. Jeremy Gordon and Capt. Josh Wilson said they suffered severe cases of hypoxia and refused to fly the F-22 in January. Capt. Wilson has been reprimanded.

"I am not comfortable flying in the F-22 right now," Maj. Gordon said.

"In a room full of F-22 pilots, the vast majority will be coughing a lot of the times," he said. "Other things, [such as lying] down for bed at night after flying and getting just the spinning-room feeling, dizziness, tumbling, vertigo kind of stuff."

Veteran aviators cannot recall active-duty pilots ever going on national TV to knock the military aircraft they fly, much less the Air Force's $79 billion crown jewel.

"I think it's a shame," said retired Air ForceGen. Merrill A. McPeak, the service's chief of staff in the early 1990s. "They must be planning on getting out of the Air Force and running for Congress, because that's not the way professionals would deal with this problem. I would invite them to try a different plane - an airliner."

Strong reactions

Gen. McPeak is one of the F-22's founding fathers. He helped write the requirements for what would become a stealthy air-superiority jet that would fly higher and accelerate faster than any previous fighter.

As chief, he made an important change by ordering manufacturer Lockheed Martin Corp. to add a bomb bay to give it not just air-to-air lethality but also air-to-ground capability to strike air defenses.

"Unless we had an air-to-ground munitions capability that really made it a dual-role fighter, it wouldn't have survived congressional scrutiny," Gen. McPeak said. "I'm a strong volunteer to fly the airplane myself."

Some retired top brass blame the chain of command, from the Guard unit up to Air Combat Command, for letting the two pilots' complaints evolve into a national TV spectacle.

"If all that were in my chain of command, there would be some heads rolling somewhere," said retired Air ForceMaj. Gen. Charles D. Link. "Pilots shouldn't have to go to congressmen and get whistleblower protection in order to get relief from some kind of problem. It just shouldn't happen. There's a chain-of-accountability breakdown there somewhere."

Retired Lt. Gen. Thomas G. McInerney, who logged 4,000 flying hours in fighters in Vietnam and other venues, offered blunt advice: "The Air Force has a problem, and they should not ground pilots or reprimand them. The Air Force should fix the problem."

The 'Raptor cough'

The Air Force says the 25 cases of pilot hypoxia, the most frequent for any fighter aircraft, stems from one of two problems: Either the onboard oxygen generation system is not providing sufficient air or the air itself is contaminated.

Until technicians figure it out, Gen. McInerney said, the Air Force should employ the Vietnam-era system of installing oxygen bottles in the cockpit and "get rid of the [oxygen generation] system, which is the problem."

Col. Sholtis said the Air Force has discussed using oxygen bottles but has not made a final decision. What it has tried to do, after the plane was grounded for five months last year, is make the F-22 safer.

"We instituted a number of measures designed to protect our pilots, ensure the safe completion of operations and assess the possible physiological effects of flying the aircraft," he said.

Those include conducting blood and pulmonary-function tests and providing each pilot with an in-flight pulse oximeter, which monitors the amount of oxygen in the blood.

The service also installed activated carbon C2A1 filters to trap any contaminants moving through the oxygen-generating machine into the pilots' throats and lungs.

That created another problem: Carbon dust leaked into the hoses and, according to CBS, into pilots' throats, causing what pilots have dubbed the "Raptor cough."

Col. Sholtis said the dust has been used in air and water systems for years "without any significant evidence of harm."

He said 30 throat swabs were taken from pilots and no carbon was found. An analysis of more than 500 filters showed "no significant levels of contaminants."

The service discontinued the filters and is installing contaminant sensors to monitor the air hoses.

Pilot error or cover-up?

The Nov. 16, 2010, crash of an F-22 Raptor that killed pilot Capt. Jeffrey Haney involved a lack of oxygen in the cockpit.

The Air Force's official accident investigation said the plane's bleed air intake, which is used to generate power, malfunctioned and caused the oxygen-generating system to shut down.

The report blamed Haney for the crash for not quickly activating the emergency oxygen system and recovering from a dive. The investigation said the onboard oxygen generation system did not malfunction.

"Due to the high affinity of oxygen to hemoglobin, [Haney] would have had adequate blood oxygen supply after the [system] failed," the report states, according to the Air Force Times.

"It was concluded that the late recognition of the [Raptor's] unusual altitude and appropriate corrective actions attempted by [Capt. Haney] demonstrates that hypoxia was not a factor in this mishap."

Capt. Haney's family charges that the Air Force is protecting its multibillion-dollar fighter by blaming the pilot when the real culprit was the F-22 itself.

"I'd like to think it's easier to blame Jeff. He's not here to defend himself," Jennifer Haney, his sister, told ABC News. "To them, Jeff was a number, it feels like sometimes. But those jets are worth a lot of money.

"I don't agree with [the Air Force]. I think there was a lot more going on inside that cockpit," she said. "A cover-up? I don't know. But there's something."

The Pentagon's inspector general is investigating how the Air Force Accident Investigation Board reached its conclusion of pilot error.

Ironically, when Gen. Norton Schwartz, the Air Force chief of staff, appeared before a congressional committee in March, he maintained that the service was not blaming the pilot - while, in fact, the accident report did just that.

A troubled chronology

Until the Air Force solves the F-22 mystery, the investigation and outreach to pilots continue.

"We've conducted road shows where we have gone out to each Raptor base and conducted town-hall meetings where we talk about what's going on, take their questions, address their concerns," Col. Sholtis said.

"There are biweekly video teleconferences. All the unit commanders are updated on what's being done to advance the root-cause analysis."

The F-22's founders 20 years ago could not have predicted the aircraft's spotty chronology.

It was declared operational in 2005 but never deployed to prolonged wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, where air power was used extensively.

The Air Force wanted at least 243 F-22s, but, as defense secretary, Robert M. Gates capped the purchase at 187. The last plane was delivered recently.

The Raptor took another hit this month when Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, told ABC News that the F-22, pegged at $400 million a copy, has no mission in today's conflicts.

"There is no purpose, no mission in Afghanistan or Iraq, unless you believe that al Qaeda is going to have a fleet of aircraft," said Mr. McCain, a former Navy fighter pilot.

F-22 backers disagree, saying a conflict with China's growing air force or strikes on Iran would fit the plane's ability to penetrate defended airspace to drop bombs and to out-dogfight any enemy fighter.

In fact, the Pentagon for the first time deployed F-22s to a potential war theater: The planes flew to the United Arab Emirates, a U.S. ally across the Persian Gulf from bellicose Iran.

Whistleblower protection

Col. Sholtis said the final answer to F-22 pilots' high rate of hypoxia may be the plane's unique performance.

"We've got normally healthy pilots who go up, fly a mission, experience some kind of physiological symptoms, come back, and after a period of time, those symptoms go away," he said.

"The approach now is more holistic. We are not just talking about the machine. We're talking about how that machine interacts with a human in the cockpit.

"In a particular operational environment, the relevant factors being high altitude, high gravitational forces, the normal things we ask this aircraft to do as part of its mission," the Air Force spokesman said.

As for Maj. Gordon and Capt. Wilson, Air Force Lt. Gen. Janet C. Wolfenbarger, the military deputy for the office of the assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition, told a Senate committee this week that they are covered by the Military Whistleblower Protection Act and will not be punished for their unauthorized appearance on "60 Minutes."

Their attorney, Frederick M. Morgan, said his clients exhausted internal complaints and thus decided to go public.

"They made the choices they made because they felt it was not receiving attention internally that they felt was appropriate," Mr. Morgan told The Times. "It did not seem to them to be headed in the right direction. They simply exercised a statutory right to get the word out."

Both pilots stopped flying this year because of bouts of hypoxia and perceived side effects from the charcoal filters. Capt. Wilson was reprimanded for adhering to his doctor's recommendation that he not fly with the filter.

Mr. Morgan said Maj. Gordon has told the command that he is willing to resume flying "with close medical scrutiny and coordination with those evaluating the life-support system" now that the filter has been removed.

Asked what the two thought they accomplished by appearing on TV, Mr. Morgan said: "My fervent hope is the fix to the problem gets expedited even more than it was. We have no doubt the Air Force was working hard on it, but I think you can always work harder, and that's what we hope is happening."

F-22 Raptor pilots make problems public - Washington Times
 

H.A.

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Audio of an F-22 Pilot Getting Hypoxia

That's right, someone recorded an F-22 Raptor pilot using the callsign Rocket 04 declaring an emergency after suffering hypocia-like symptoms while flying in the famous Red Flag combat excercises at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada earlier this year.
Listen to the tape to hear Rocket 04 report his situation and request an immediate descent to 18,000 feet so that he can breather easier and asses his situation. Rocket 04 left the battlespace and was escorted home by another F-22, Rocket 03.
As David Cenciotti points out, this pilot was likely from the 27th Fighter Squadron, a unit of the Langley AFB-based 1st Fighter Wing, the same wing that those Air Guard pilots who refused the Raptor belong to. Those Virginia guardsmen refused to fly the jet due to concerns about Raptor pilots suffering from hypoxia-like symptoms with alarming frequency.

http://defensetech.org/2012/05/17/audio-of-an-f-22-pilot-getting-hypoxia/#more-17261

Here is the Audio clip:

F-22 emergency by TheAviationist on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
 

hit&run

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I think its a problem with ratio of nitrogen and oxygen supply. I don't know what concentration they will be pumping at high altitudes and high G manoeuvres but pumping high % oxygen (prolonged exposures) cause atelectasis in normal clinical setting (Patients of ventilators/oxygen supply).
 

drkrn

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article says high acceleration and turns causing atelectasis. can the same problem be faced in formula car racing?
 

Drsomnath999

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Rafale's War Game with F-22 (2009)

PLEASE NOTE : This article is from Air & Cosmos magazine which is a highly popular french magazine .Well as the pdf was in jpeg format i could nt translate it directly by copy pasting the article into google translate ,so i had to personally type all the french word in google translate & translate it ,so if by chance if there is any mistake in translation plz forgive me & also correct me.
REGARDS



Air & Cosmos magazine




PG 1



(FRENCH)


Duels au dessus des sables

Saint Dizier 8 Novembre 2009
Une premiere vague de trois Rafale de l EC-1/7 "pr ovence" quitte la Haute -Marne pour des horizons bien plus desertiques.Direction les Emirats Arabes unis (EAU) et ; la base aerienne d Al Dhafia ,pour un exercise aucun no pilote de chasse au monde ne souhaiterait manquer: l;Advanced Tactical Leadership Course ,organise annuelle-ment par les EAU. Au total, six Rafale du 1/7 rejoignent deux vagues de trois avions la base emiratie en cet automne 2009.ls sont accompagnes par 15 pilotes, d'origines et d'experiences diverses .Tous ont saisi l'occasion de venir s'en-trainer sur un terrain de jeu hors du commun: trois fois plus grand que le "range" de Red Flag,l' Air Warfare Centre a ete cree en 2000 au profit des pays du Golfe et de leur s principaux allies que sont les Etats -Unis,la Grande-Bretagne et la france ainsi que d'autres nations invitees ponctuellement chaque annee. L' AWC emirati dispose egalement du dernier cri en matiere d' equipements de restitution permettant un de briefing tres precis a la fin de chaque mission
En 2009 , le Rafale participe pour la premiere fois a Advanced Tactical Leadership Course .Mais un autre invite exceptionnel partage l'affiche : le F22 raptor americain , dont l' US Air force a depeche six avions rattaches au 27 th Fighter Squadron ,base a Langle y Air Force Base . Concu au de but des annees quatr e-vingt- dix,le chasseur americain est l'avion de combat le plus moderne en service a ce jour .Il associe des performances aerodynamiques extraordinaires a une tres grande furtivite ,mais aussi a un
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Duels above the sand

Saint Dizier November 8,
A first wave of three Rafale of EC- 1/ 7th "provence" leaves the Haute-Marne for horizons much desertiques.Direction Arab Emirates (UAE) and; Air Base to Al Dhafia, no exercise for any fighter pilot in the world would miss the; advanced tactical leadership race, organized yearly by the UAE-ment. A total of six gust seventh join two waves of three aircraft based in Emirati 2009.ls this fall are accompanied by 15 pilots, of various backgrounds and experiences. All took the opportunity to come in trainer on a playground out of the ordinary: three times larger than the "range" of Red Flag, the Air Warfare Centre was created in 2000 in favor of the Gulf countries and their main allies that are s states U.S., Britain and France and other nations invitees punctually each year. The AWC has Emirati also the last word in matters of reproduction equipment allowing a very precise briefing at the end of each mission
In 2009, the Rafale is participating for the first time at Advanced Tactical Leadership Course. But another poster invites outstanding shares: the F22 raptor American, including the U.S. Air Force has six planes Depeche piecing the 27 th Fighter Squadron, based in Langle y Air Force Base. Designed for the purpose of year quatr e-nineties, the American fighter is the fighter most modern in service today. It combines extraordinary aerodynamic performance has a very high stealth, but also has
a


PG2



(FRENCH)
systeme d'armes articule autour d'un puissant radar Actively Electronically scanned Radar et de capteurs passifs dont le fonctionnement est proche en principe de celui de SPECTRA . Taille sur mesure pour l' interception a haute altitude et le combat tournoyant: il dispose pour cela d'une poussee vectorielle qui permet d'orienter le flux d'air de ses deux reacteurs dans le plan vertical,offrant un surcroit de manoeuvrabilite dans toutes les phases de vol.
Sur le papier ,le F 22 Raptor et la Rafale n'ont donc pas grand- chose a voir. Alors que l'avion americain (le chasseur le plus cher au monde) a ete concu comme lavion ultime de defense aerienne, le bireacteur francais reste un avion polyvalent et "abordable".Les deux appareils ne sont meme pas concurrents sur le marche international: Washington refuse ainsi d' exporter son raptor ,qui doit rester la "botte secrete" durant un conflit aerien de forte intensite .
Le dition 2009 d advanced tactical leadership course va tout de meme etre pretexte au premier affrontement entre les deux avions

Une defaite pour cinq matchs nuls

L US airforce a toutefois pose de strictes conditions entourant cette confrontation: le Raptor ne participera a aucun exercice Beyond Visual Range avec des appareils etrangers .Les pilotes americains acceptent uniquement de se mesurer en combat tournoyant 1 contre 1 face aux equipages qui participent a le exercise. Les pilotes de 'l EC-1/7 saisissent leur chance ...et le bilan est plutot encourageant: sur six passes , seule une aur ait abouti,d'apres les aviateurs francais , a une victoire franche du F 22 Raptor .Les cinq autres se seraient terminees sur un "draw" , cest-a- dire une situation d egalite qui peut etre obtenue par divers parametres : duel qui s'eternise au -dela

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weapons system built around a powerful Actively Electronically scanned radar and passive sensors whose operation is similar in principle to that of SPECTRA. Size of able to intercept at high altitude and in the dogfight: he has for that a thrust vector that guides the exhaust of its two engine in the vertical plane, providing extra maneuverability in all phases of flight.
On paper, the F 22 Raptor and the Rafale have not much to see. While the aircraft was American (the most expensive fighter in the world) has been designed as a Plane ultimate air defense, the French jet aircraft remains a versatile and "affordable." The Both planes are not even competing on the international market: Washington and refuses to export its raptor, which is remain the "secret weapon" during a high intensity aerial conflict.
The 2009 edition of advanced tactical leadership race will be all the same pretext in the first clash between the two planes

A defeat for five draws

The U.S. airforce has, however, poses stringent conditions surrounding this confrontation: the Raptor has not participated in any Beyond Visual Range exercise with any foreign planes. American Pilots accept only to compete in a dogfight 1 against 1 against teams that participate in the exercise.The pilots' s EC 1/7 seize their chance ... and the results are rather encouraging:
On six times, only one would have resulted, after the pilots of French, has a clear victory over the F 22 Raptor. The other five would have ended on a "draw", that is to say a situation of equality that can be obtained by various parameters: duel drags on beyond

PG 3




(FRENCH)
d'une durèe prèdèfinie,enfoncement du "plan-cher" fixè pour l'exercice...

Deux paramétres principaux donnent l'avantage au Raptor en combat tournoyant : sa poussèe vectorielle et l' immense puissance que lui confèrent ses deux rèacteurs ,qui dèlivrent chacun prés de deux fois la poussèe du M88 ! Méme s'il est bien plus lourd que le Rafale ,le F-22 conserve une manoeuvrabilitè redoutable qui lui permet de se sortir de la plupart des situations dèlicates en BFM ;méme s'il dégrade beaucoup d'energie lors de manoeuvres à incidence trés élevée, celle-ci peut-ètre rapidement récupérée par ses moteurs. Mais les pilotes se gardent bien de qualifier le Raptor d'invulnérable:
"Face à un F-22, le Rafale peut se mettre en position de tir canon mais il doit le faire trés rapidement ,sous peine de voir les roles s'inverser si le duel s'éternise ",résume un aviateur français .En combat longue portée
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predefined time, depressing the "high-level" fixed for the year ...

Two main parameters give the advantage to the Raptor in dogfight: its thrust vector and the immense power conferred by its two engines, which each deliver near twice the thrust of the M88! Although it is much heavier than the Rafale, the F-22 retains a formidable maneuverability that allows him to leave the most delicate situations BFM; same degrades if a lot of energy during impact operations at very high, it may be rapidly recovered by the engines. But the pilots are careful to qualify the Raptor invulnerable:
"Faced with an F-22, Rafale can get in shooting position cannon but it must do so very quickly, lest the roles be reversed if the battle drags on," said one French aviator. In combat long-range


PG 4



(FRENCH)
les choses sont bien différentes. Les performances du radar APG 77 et la faible signature radar de l'avion , associées à la capacité d'évoluer en trés haute altitude (jusqu'à 65 000 ft) et à Mach 1.7 sans faire usage de la post combustion rendent l'oiseau pratiquement intouchable...

Les performances de Spectra épatent

Les aviateurs du "Provence" quittent Al Dhafra le 12 décembre ,aprés avoir accumulé 320 heures de vol au cours de 182 sorties .Un grand nombre d'engagements complexes ont permis une fois de plus de faire la démonstration de la polyvalence du chasseur français .Un exemple : lors d'une mission de bombar dement ,le numéro deux d'une patrouille de quatre Rafale largue six AASM à guidage GPS sur six objectifs différents,tout en tirant trois Mica
sur des pistes hostiles...le tout en à peine plus d'une minute.


Le debriefing montrera que les six objectifs, distants de prés de 50 km, ont tous été détruits,tandis que deux appareils ennemis ont été a battus par les missiles francais.Comme pendent Red Flag, les Français louent aussi les performances de Spectra dans la localisation des menaces sol-air: les Rafale déployès pour advanced tactical leadership race auraient ainsi pu remplir parfaitement la mission de destruction des défenses aériennes ennemies (SEAD) aux cotès des F-16 CJ amèricains,dont c'est la mission principale . Une capacitè multirole désormais éprouvée qui permettra au Rafale de faire enfin la différence face à ses compétiteurs
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things are very different. The APG 77 radar performance and low radar signature of the aircraft, together with the ability to evolve in very high altitude (up to 65,000 ft) and Mach 1.7 without using the afterburner make the bird virtually untouchable ...

Performance Spectra amaze

The airmen of "Provence" leaving Al Dhafra December 12, after having accumulated 320 hours flying over 182 attractions. Many complex commitments have once again to demonstrate the versatility of the French fighter. an example: on a mission of bombarding Dement, the number two of a patrol of four Rafale dropped GPS-guided AASM six on six different objectives, while taking three Mica on hostile tracks ... all in just over a minute. The debriefing will show that the six objectives, apart near 50 km, were all destroyed, while two enemy aircraft were beaten by a missile hanging francais.Comme Red Flag, the French also praise the performance of Spectra in the location of ground-air threats: the Rafale made to advanced tactical leadership race would have been able to perfectly fulfill the mission of destroying defenses enemy air (SEAD) alongside the F-16 CJ U.S., which is the main mission. Now proven multirole capability that will allow the Rafale to finally make the difference against its competitors.





SUMMARY

Well it's amazing despite being a 4.5 gen fighter rafale did manage to get a win out of 6 engagements & 5 were drawn in the aerial exercise between rafale & F22 in (ATLC) in 2009.Yes the aerial wargame was fought in within visual range ,if that fight have been fought in beyond visual range the result couldnt have been the same .But 1 thing was indeed worth mentioning that rafale performed impressively well despite being fielded a generation ahead plane like that F 22 raptor.
 

Pokemon

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F22 are not meant for letting hostile fighters to get so close to be involved in dog fight.

The reason US never agree for a BVR war game is that they are convinced of F22 superiority over the world, they just test themselves and more than that other fighter under level field conflict.
 

Drsomnath999

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F22 are not meant for letting hostile fighters to get so close to be involved in dog fight.

Pokemon

buddy any 5th gen plane whther it is f22 or any 5th gen jet is designed specifically to fight at BVR warfare ,If they fight at within visual range they would automatically lose their stealth advantage

.
The reason US never agree for a BVR war game is that they are convinced of F22 superiority over the world, they just test themselves and more than that other fighter under level field conflict.
well i dont think so they are convinced ,but in order to avoid exposing their AESA radar signatures to other nation jet's ESM they usually avoid BVR
wargames .Well in red flag exercise i am not sure whther they turn their own radar on or not but they depend upon AWACS .
 
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jerry_crus

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Whos's telling the truth? i want to know :sad:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=96986&page=25
By Stephen Trimble on February 17, 2010 2:47 AM |

The United Arab Emirates has dropped a bombshell on France's Dassault, according to this UPI story today. Before it agrees to buy 60 Rafale fighters, the UAE wants Dassault to integrate Boeing's standoff land attack missile-expanded response (SLAM-ER), instead of the MBDA AM-39 Exocet. Sacre bleu! And so continues the most tortuous contract negotiations since Boeing offered to lease 100 767s to the US Air Force.

Meanwhile, back in Paris, the Armee de l'Air leaks to French newsweekly Air & Cosmos, providing a few more tidbits about what happened between the Raptor and the Rafale at the Al Dhafra exercise late last year. According to Air & Cosmos' sources, the USAF requested only two training sorties between the F-22 and the Rafale of three engagements each, with one-on-one combat within visual range. [In other words, the USAF says, "If you don't turn on your Spectra system, we won't turn on our ALR-94."]

In those six engagements, the F-22 scored one gun kill, but the other five dogfights ended in a draw, Air & Cosmos says. Another sources tells the magazine the F-22 scored two gun kills, with four nulls.
 

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