Liaoning (Varyag) - Chinese Aircraft Carrier

Discussion in 'China' started by A.V., Feb 25, 2009.

  1. SexyChineseLady

    SexyChineseLady Regular Member

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    I think the actual answer is the Indian state is simply too poor to operate their carrier much and the MIG-29K jars its internals loose every time it lands. The Indian Navy itself says the MIG needs to be recalibrated after each landing.

    I did find a lot more videos of the MIG-29K in these kinds of things:





     
  2. Safir

    Safir Regular Member

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    there was a report in 2007 that You had bought 4 AC landing systems from Russia, when not disclosed, out of these 4 it is estimated that in type 001a you have fitted one of these. This clearly means you are assembling the AC not designing it.
     
  3. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    And you think these problems will persist with INS Vikrant (IAC-1) as well? BTW, what about your recent quest of a new carrier borne fighter? J-15 not good enough? :rofl:

    So you are intent on judging the worth of a professional military force based on the number of videos they put out? PRC propaganda machine has trained you well. You are a nice little ant.

    Edit: At least the problems our country faces get enough free press. The problems of PRC are such that the supreme authorities decide what problems to let the people know and what not to highlight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
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  4. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Those metrics matter plenty when you are parking them in the hanger deck where they get serviced and stored during heavy sea states. The deck footprint is irrelevant for long term operations. You can't leave them on the deck in heavy sea states so you would have to disengage from a combat zone over heavy weather or fly off the ones stored on deck so they don't become casualties of sea water.

    How I figure wing loading is the same as everyone across the world figures it... except you.

    [​IMG]

    You don't get to make up a wing loading formula that doesn't exist just to fit your absurd argument.

    Canards are effective for high wing loading situations, they are not gaining enough airspeed to be useful in takeoff which is why they are left parallel at launch so they do not destablise the airflow of the wing on takeoff.

    The proof is in the pudding which is why Russia ordered the MiG-29K to replace the Su-33. Of course the Su-33 provided more CAPs than the MiG, they took twice as many Flankers but they still had the same crash ratio, one of each. If the CdG lost two aircraft during every deployment we wouldn't have any left. If you count India/Russia MiG vs Russia/China Su-33 and clones the MiGs are doing far better.
     
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  5. Pinky Chaudhary

    Pinky Chaudhary Regular Member

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    SO now what Indian Navy should do is to make a video compilation of every carrier landing it has ever done to please you chinks..???.. LOL...You are a new kid in the town while Indian Navy has used CBGs in combat much before. We regularly trains wuth USN which is a carrier superpower, that should give you an idea.
     
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  6. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    There's an old saying EMPTY VESSELS MAKE MORE NOISE. That's exactly is the case with chinese propoganda videos, Indian Navy operated carriers for last more than 50 years both catapult and ski jump no need to blow trumpet showing videos to prove capabilities.

    Your porki army friends know how they had to surrender with 93000 soldiers when ins Vikrant ripped them apart.... Dhaka, Cox bazaar all were bombed by fighters launched from catapult launch INS Vikrant...

    Mind you Vikrant was 18000 tonnes displacement with 2nd generation fighters but now INS Vikramaditya is more than 45000 and new ins Vikrant 40000 tonnes with 4.5 gen fighters mig29k and may be rafale M a huge capabilities jump all taken by Indian Navy naturally with out hoolla hooping like chinese...
     
  7. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Doubling down on the absurdity? The Kuznetsov class's hanger deck was built to acomodate the Flanker's height son:

    [​IMG]

    In Vikramaditya's case, the original Gorshkov was built to accommodate Yak 38's, an aircraft the size of a large helicopter. Vikramaditya could never have operated the Su27K simply because it has an island in the middle of its flight deck. Operating the Flanker at any significant sortie rate would have been a disaster waiting to happen. They barely have enough space with the smaller Mig 29K.

    That's an indictment of the Kiev class. The Kuznetsov was built as an actual carrier capable of generating higher sortie rates than the Kiev heli carriers/cruisers.

    The proof really is in the pudding. If the Mig really was the "the better choice for a carrier based fighter" why would the Russian Navy take twice as many legacy Su33's into its first war time deployment? I mean the Su 33 "can barely take off with any serious loads" but the Russian Navy deployed twice as many Su33's as the Mig and carried out twice as many sorties with the "less capable fighter" according to u.

    The Russian Navy has 24 Mig 29Ks.... Why depend on the20+ year old Su27K airframes over their brand new Migs? It's not like the Migs land so fast and hard that they need to be recaliberated after each landing right?

    Nice obsfucation mate. The ditching of both those airrcraft was due to a fault with Kuznetsov's arrestor gear. The jets simply ran out of fuel. Both crashes were well documented events.

    I dont make things up mate, thats your forte. The Su27K's LERX's and canards are credited with giving that aircraft a slower minimum airspeed than the Mig 29K, translating to lower/safer landing speeds on deck.

     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  8. SexyChineseLady

    SexyChineseLady Regular Member

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    The Indian don’t have do anything it is not capable of.

    The US Navy has SOOOOOO MANY videos on carrier landings. But Indian Navy has nearly none. The US Navy has more to prove? LOL

    The videos are just evidence. The J-15 launches and lands on the Liaoning in frequent fashion and it is proven by the videos. The lack of videos for the MIG-29K flying from the Vikramaditya is proof that the Indian Navy don’t actually operate their carrier very often.

    You can call me racial slurs all you want but your big talk about “experience” is not backed up by any visual evidence.
     
  9. Pinky Chaudhary

    Pinky Chaudhary Regular Member

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    Well you could have founded several videos of Mig 29 k carrier landing on his very thread if you wanted to... The fact that you are even trying to prove your silly logic proves that you are nothing but a racist CPC troll.
     
  10. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    your operating experience with 50s era AC does not add to capability in 21th century
     
  11. SexyChineseLady

    SexyChineseLady Regular Member

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    If I were a racist troll I would be doing it in an Indian carrier thread not a Chinese one. The only racist trolls in this thread are Indians who throw racial slurs around when I ask for visual evidence of this big talk about Indian “experience” (in a thread about the Chinese Liaoning.)

    There are many, many videos of the J-15 launching and landing on the Liaoning. There are many, many, many, many videos of F-18s operating off USN carriers. There are very few videos of Indian MIG-29K launching and landing on the Vikramaditya.

    And we know the reasons why there are so few videos — the Indian navy has a limited budget so very few deployment of the carrier, the Vikramaditya itself is in refit six-months at a time and the MIG-29K is dangerously fragile as a carrier aircraft that needs to be “re-calibrated” after each time it lands (“re-calibrating” is just a polite way of saying “holy crap, the aircraft is dangerously full of loose parts and instruments” after each landing.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  12. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Liaoning seems to be getting pretty thorough maintenance whilst in dry dock. Recent pictures show that her non-skid deck coating is being replaced:

    [​IMG]

    I think the last time we saw her deck getting a zinc chromate primer for a non-skid surface being applied was in 2006 right after her original refit started:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

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    It is not bureaucracy but lack of natural resource and its consequence. India has limited resources and as a result foreign pressures exist for foreign resources. Also, due lack of military emphasis in the past due to overemphasis on nonviolence, things in technology got backseat.

    Porkis were supported by USA carrier in 1971. Porkies will always be afraid of India. Let us not bring filths like porkies in every discussions. Bringing Pakistan only lowers the level of discussion and creates false impression on Pakistanis that India give importance to them.

    Funding is irrelevant as India has had aircraft carriers since 1960s and flew lots of planes from the carriers. China has got carriers only in 2010 and hence no matter what funding is for chinese, India has had more experience in carrier operations and flight take off and landing.

    Don't tell lies to justify anything. India does not have selfie habit of posting videos and hence does not unnecessarily post more videos than needed

    USA is irrelevant here. Just because others have the habit of standing infront of the mirror entire day or keeps taking selfies does not mean it is a good practice.
     
  14. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Liaoning is getting a comprehensive refit. Whilst her flight deck is being recoated her aft aviation observation deck is being remodelled to match the Type 002 carrier currently on trials:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pardon me for my ignorance!!! , what do all these upgrades do the general operation and lethality of this AC.
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    One must examine the totality of the situation. The J-15 has been deemed unsafe for operations due to its high crash rate so a replacement is desperately being studied. The limited endurance of the vessel limits it to a few weeks of operation before it must return to port for extensive maintenance. It does not matter what upgrades they put on the vessel when it is incapable of carrying out combat operations.
     
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  17. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Operating aircraft off of the Liaoning informed their decision to redesign the aft facing aviation bridge (pri fly) from the original Soviet layout.

    If they're remodelling the Liaoning (at significant cost) to reflect the changes made to the refined Type 002 design then the modification must significantly improve flight operations.

    I wouldn't call re applying a non skid surface coat to the flight deck an "uprade". After 6 years of operations and qualifying new pilots, its a necessary maintenance measure. There is probably signifact internal refit work being done internally as well, but of course we won't get pictures of that anytime soon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  18. Jackd

    Jackd Regular Member

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    What is the status of development of CATOBAR tech as well as nuclear powered AC? China
     
  19. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    A catobar capable version of the J15 has been flying since 2015:

    [​IMG]

    And it has been tested off both the steam catapult and EMALS rig installed at the J15's home base; the Huangdicun naval air base:

    [​IMG]

    As to development of CVNs, there are rumours circulating in Chinese military observer circles that both the CATOBAR carriers being assembled at JCNX and Dailan shipyard are nuclear powered. But as with any rumour, I'd take those rumours with huge grains of salt.
     
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  20. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Dated footage of J15's and a Z9D SAR heli performing night time take-off's and landings off of Liaoning:

     

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