LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Rajaraja Chola]

The below technology is the base of all future military projects of next 15-20 years.

IISc Develops India’s first e-mode Gallium-Nitride Power Transistor



https://researchmatters.in/news/iisc-develops-india’s-first-e-mode-gallium-nitride-power-transistor

See. A transistor as a basic design hasnt undergone much radical changes in the past century. The issue we have at hand is not power convertors IC, transistors IC, amplifier IC's or even circuit design.

The issue at hand is the Microprocessors and microcontrollers. Which in effect is the brain of any PCB or any system which we lack.
Let's take an intelligent CPU used in Tejas fighter jet. It needs to use an MP. Did we design it? Talking of radios. It needs an MP with RF switches capable of secured encryption. Do we have it? Do we have an MP for Uttam AESA radar? (I dont know what kind of MP or MC IC they use in that).

We are good in making modules, systems. But we fail at building the basic blocks of an system. Even though we write the firmware for each and every MP, the library used to write such firmware has to be provided by manufacturer. There goes our security. Honestly DRDO cannot be expected to design all basic blocks by itself. They buy such stuff from outside.

The processors used in US aircrafts probably have twice the processing power of the fastest intel chips available so as to enable sensor fusion in record time to be available to the pilot. There cannot be any delay. And problems with processors is they cannot have overheating issues.

Indian defence industry is good. But I find bragging by Indian members unacceptable. Just my pov.

 

[Imaxxx]

M2K development has long stopped. If LCAmk2 isnt better than M2k then our product is 100% will be inferior.

F16 on the other hand is evolving. Some of F35 tech has filtered down to F16 with respect to sensor fusion and avionics. I dont know if we can suddenly match their avionics suddenly when they are developing for generations. F16 block 70 is an really good ac.

If you are referring to USAF/NATO F-16s, they could get upgrades, but the reference is moot. If you are referring to porki F-16s they sure are not getting all the 5th gen upgrades or any trickle down tech from F-35. Their F-16s are frozen in time. Based on specs Tejas Mk2 already outperforms the current porki F-16s and will most certainly so because their F-16s would have degraded by the time Mk2 is in the skies.

#pkmkb #destroypakistan

 

[JKK]

Its been a while since i heard of any new Tejas rolling out from the assembly line and being handed over to the IAF. Is this a delay, are they batching releases or are they now working on FOC while earlier were IOC spec?

 

[vampyrbladez]

See. A transistor as a basic design hasnt undergone much radical changes in the past century. The issue we have at hand is not power convertors IC, transistors IC, amplifier IC's or even circuit design.

The issue at hand is the Microprocessors and microcontrollers. Which in effect is the brain of any PCB or any system which we lack.
Let's take an intelligent CPU used in Tejas fighter jet. It needs to use an MP. Did we design it? Talking of radios. It needs an MP with RF switches capable of secured encryption. Do we have it? Do we have an MP for Uttam AESA radar? (I dont know what kind of MP or MC IC they use in that).

We are good in making modules, systems. But we fail at building the basic blocks of an system. Even though we write the firmware for each and every MP, the library used to write such firmware has to be provided by manufacturer. There goes our security. Honestly DRDO cannot be expected to design all basic blocks by itself. They buy such stuff from outside.

The processors used in US aircrafts probably have twice the processing power of the fastest intel chips available so as to enable sensor fusion in record time to be available to the pilot. There cannot be any delay. And problems with processors is they cannot have overheating issues.

Indian defence industry is good. But I find bragging by Indian members unacceptable. Just my pov.

The T/R modules on AESA radars use GaAs currently. With GaN, we can increase range by 80% with reduced input power and cooling requirements.

To build a GaN uP, you need a computing requirement. Here we are talking about a T/R antenna. This is the front end. Your back end could be any off-the-shelf multicore processor for faster throughput.

Quite simple really.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

He's watching his bird soar in the sky from heavens.

His demise is a great loss. He arranged series of meeting between DRDO/ADA to bring Tejas on track and convince IAF to buy it. Later on with new development of new technologies , electronics in particular, Tejas became favorite of India Airforce. Believe me, MWF will be an @$$ kicker. Its electronics will one of the best with a state of art AESA radar , Astra Mk2, SFDR missile etc.

 

[darshan978]

The T/R modules on AESA radars use GaAs currently. With GaN, we can increase range by 80% with reduced input power and cooling requirements.

To build a GaN uP, you need a computing requirement. Here we are talking about a T/R antenna. This is the front end. Your back end could be any off-the-shelf multicore processor for faster throughput.

Quite simple really.

Now adays there are lots of open source architecture available like mips, power pc, risc v and arm processors off the shelf available
Why dont we make our own processors?
We need 22nm or 14 nm fabrication line immediatly
180nm is too power consuming process
We could build anything with it..

 

[vampyrbladez]

Now adays there are lots of open source architecture available like mips, power pc, risc v and arm processors off the shelf available
Why dont we make our own processors?
We need 22nm or 14 nm fabrication line immidiatly
180nm is too power consuming process
We could build anything with it..

We have many VLSI labs in Bangalore but not enough uP fabrication units. To build them requires us to have a stable semi conductor supply. This can be found in NK, CN, US, SK or some other nation.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Now adays there are lots of open source architecture available like mips, power pc, risc v and arm processors off the shelf available
Why dont we make our own processors?
We need 22nm or 14 nm fabrication line immidiatly
180nm is too power consuming process
We could build anything with it..

We have many VLSI labs in Bangalore but not enough uP fabrication units. To build them requires us to have a stable semi conductor supply. This can be found in NK, CN, US, SK or some other nation.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

M2K development has long stopped. If LCAmk2 isnt better than M2k then our product is 100% will be inferior.

Mk2 is able to match available F-16 variants. In terms of technology it utilizes, it's more or less than F-16, in terms of rough physical specifications its slightly better than M2K.
Hope it helps as M2K is called inferior in terms of technology.
There isn't much gap of specifications in F-16, J-10, M2K and Mk2 either.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Focus on the image. fuselage is getting created by private company. This is how we roll with private industry working on tejas speed can be boosted. Government is on full throttle for indigenous equipments.
HAL will also shine as a integrator.

HAL has a record of delay in initial stage. HAL projects speeds up with time and HAL surpasses all exceptions in last stages so far are of numbers of production is concern. They have done this in Dhruv.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

If you are referring to USAF/NATO F-16s, they could get upgrades, but the reference is moot. If you are referring to porki F-16s they sure are not getting all the 5th gen upgrades or any trickle down tech from F-35. Their F-16s are frozen in time. Based on specs Tejas Mk2 already outperforms the current porki F-16s and will most certainly so because their F-16s would have degraded by the time Mk2 is in the skies.

#pkmkb #destroypakistan

I was referring to people who told Mk2 will match/exceed F16-70/72.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The T/R modules on AESA radars use GaAs currently. With GaN, we can increase range by 80% with reduced input power and cooling requirements.

To build a GaN uP, you need a computing requirement. Here we are talking about a T/R antenna. This is the front end. Your back end could be any off-the-shelf multicore processor for faster throughput.

Quite simple really.

That's what I am concerned. Backend processing hardware isnt really in our control. It cannot even be manufactured in India due to security requirements.

 

[Imaxxx]

Once considered a step child of IAF is now getting dearer and dearer to IAF. With coming of uttam , new EW , network centric capabilities, censor fusion etc, Tejas shall be an @$$ kicker. Even porky F16 will be no match to Tejal.

Getting ahead is too much. It will be great if we get an decent platform out of it. #sensor

Not at all. Tejas Mk2 would be superior to F-16 & M2K by far in all projected specs and avionics.

M2K development has long stopped. If LCAmk2 isnt better than M2k then our product is 100% will be inferior.

F16 on the other hand is evolving. Some of F35 tech has filtered down to F16 with respect to sensor fusion and avionics. I dont know if we can suddenly match their avionics suddenly when they are developing for generations. F16 block 70 is an really good ac.

If you are referring to USAF/NATO F-16s, they could get upgrades, but the reference is moot. If you are referring to porki F-16s they sure are not getting all the 5th gen upgrades or any trickle down tech from F-35. Their F-16s are frozen in time. Based on specs Tejas Mk2 already outperforms the current porki F-16s and will most certainly so because their F-16s would have degraded by the time Mk2 is in the skies.

#pkmkb #destroypakistan

I was referring to people who told Mk2 will match/exceed F16-70/72.

Not really. Here is the chain of messages. In fact it was @HariPrasad-1 who praised Tejas's planned electronic capabilities and mentioned "porky F16 will be no match to Tejal". Read the words again: porky F-16. FYI - not sure if you are aware, porkis don't have F-16 Blk 70/72.

Please point out who and in which post specifically mentioned Blk70 to which you responded.

#pkmkb #destroypakistan

 

[cyclops]

Now adays there are lots of open source architecture available like mips, power pc, risc v and arm processors off the shelf available
Why dont we make our own processors?
We need 22nm or 14 nm fabrication line immediatly
180nm is too power consuming process
We could build anything with it..

.................................

 

[Raju Seth]

.................................

much awaited industry is rising now,it is necessary if india wants to export,& compete with china in electronics

 

[darshan978]

.................................

iknow that but that processor is in tatty 180nm node
we need to make it in 14 nm or at least 22 nm to make it fast and power efficient

 

[Flying Dagger]

Not really. Here is the chain of messages. In fact it was @HariPrasad-1 who praised Tejas's planned electronic capabilities and mentioned "porky F16 will be no match to Tejal". Read the words again: porky F-16. FYI - not sure if you are aware, porkis don't have F-16 Blk 70/72.

Please point out who and in which post specifically mentioned Blk70 to which you responded.

#pkmkb #destroypakistan

A generic mention of F 16 will definitely led one to think the comparison is with best possible version i.e. blk 70/72

He said he referred to blk 70 so be it. Anyway mk2 is still almost a decade away let it fly and then compare. Porki F 16 blk 52 still have all the bang which we are trying mk2 to have the real difference will be missiles if UTTAM AESA works out fine.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I was referring to people who told Mk2 will match/exceed F16-70/72.

I think all the members agree in general that F 16 is superior to Tejas in every regard.
But ours isn't meant to be a competitor for F 16 that's the job of Rafale and Su 30 and AMCA. Tejas is meant for replacing oldies like mig 21 i.e. fill up the numbers in Air Force.

Other than that Tejas is the Benchmark for Indigenous Aviation. Many Indigenous sub system of fighter jets have been developed thanks to Tejas, Kaveri is one such By Product of Tejas Project.
The sub systems that we have developed today will help in upcoming systems like MK2, AMCA, TEDBF.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I think all the members agree in general that F 16 is superior to Tejas in every regard.

i think we should compare jets from our prospective rather than just compering them in with RAW capebilties.
this is what DRDO thinks this is what IAF and make in india is all about its about creating capebilties.
tejas can take On paki F-16 with its astra superior asea radar and i -derby
its availability is fantastic maintance is getting more easier and cheaper . compare it to su-30 which have pathetic avalebilty rate we should remember that one of the biggest reason why IAF liked rafale was because of cheaper maintance and availability rate.
this is a place were indeginous stuff will always shine . the ezzz of updating
if we keep comparing ourselves with americans and west we will be short on something for a long time.

 

[dude00720]

How much will Tejas MK2/MK1A be behind F-16 if it starts supporting Meteor or Astra MK2(200+ km range) . Since, F-16 AMARAAMS cant match that currently.

I think all the members agree in general that F 16 is superior to Tejas in every regard.
But ours isn't meant to be a competitor for F 16 that's the job of Rafale and Su 30 and AMCA. Tejas is meant for replacing oldies like mig 21 i.e. fill up the numbers in Air Force.

Other than that Tejas is the Benchmark for Indigenous Aviation. Many Indigenous sub system of fighter jets have been developed thanks to Tejas, Kaveri is one such By Product of Tejas Project.
The sub systems that we have developed today will help in upcoming systems like MK2, AMCA, TEDBF.