Labour unrest may drive Maruti to Gujarat

Singh

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India needs labour reforms. These unions are retarded and a form of extortion. Indian labour has more rights and benefits than many developed and so called communist countries.

Haryana-UP are notorious for labour issues, many of these labour union leaders have political backing and criminal backgrounds.

I would welcome Maruti shifting to Gujarat, it will teach the unions a lesson.
 

Adux

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India needs labour reforms, these unions are retarded and nothing but a form of extortion. Indian labour has more rights and benefits than many developed and so called communist countries. Haryana-UP are notorious for labour issues, many of these labour union leaders have political backing and criminal backgrounds.
Congress dont have the cojones for that, nor will any future non-congress government. The militant anti-development media will ensure that.
 

Singh

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How the hell will we provide for 1.2billion people if our labour want all the benefits ? Will such episodes insire others to invest in India ?

Indian labour is amongst the least efficient and productive although it is legally well taken care of. This deep seated notion that rich exploit the poor is untrue, on the contrary its the other way round in many cases.

India has to shift from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy else we will continue to languish.
 

Yusuf

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TATAs and Birlas know India and know how to tackle them. Unionism is good and bad. It has screwed many an industries.

One thing is for sure that the west is pretty stuck up with company policy etc. Japan is pretty much like west.

The other day I hosted an Aussie who is trying to push his company's products here is actually stuck because of company policy.

Want to be part of India's success story, be flexible I told him.
 

amitkriit

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How the hell will we provide for 1.2billion people if our labour want all the benefits ? Will such episodes insire others to invest in India ?

Indian labour is amongst the least efficient and productive although it is legally well taken care of. This deep seated notion that rich exploit the poor is untrue, on the contrary its the other way round in many cases.

India has to shift from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy else we will continue to languish.
1. How the hell will we provide for 1.2 billion people of India if a handful of people running those corporates want all the money for themselves? Had these workers been making so much money, every one of them might have become a millionaire by now. Don't forget majority of those 1.2 billion Indian people come under the category of laborers, farmers, beggars....etc.....etc
2. We don't want to convert our people into slaves to attract more investment, do we?
3. Indian laborers are least efficient, because the pay is not too attractive for the efficient, well-trained people.
4. People who cannot manage two times of good meal, who are dieing because they don't have enough money to buy medicine are exploiting the rich? OK, alright. Perhaps that's why we are talking about the "Rural Urban Gap" and the "Rich and Poor Gap". Its very easy to criticize other, don't forget a boy begging at Delhi Railway Station might have done better than many of us in real life, provided he had born in a good family with enough money to get all the opportunities we have gotten.
5. Shift from Agrarian to Industrialized economy must be gradual and sustainable, otherwise we will face the same fate as USSR. Did the large-scale industrialization during Nehru's era do any good to our economy? Large economies evolve, they are not made.
 

Singh

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1. How the hell will we provide for 1.2 billion people of India if a handful of people running those corporates want all the money for themselves? Had these workers been making so much money, every one of them might have become a millionaire by now. Don't forget majority of those 1.2 billion Indian people come under the category of laborers, farmers, beggars....etc.....etc
So you are suggesting that India shun corporates and investments and favour small scale industries, farming and begging ? just because corporates are in it to make money ? that's capitalism.

Corporates will provide more jobs and give more benefits and facilities than small scale industries, or farming.

Indian labour laws already provide for a ton of benefits.

2. We don't want to convert our people into slaves to attract more investment, do we?
Who said anything about slavery ? seriously ? working hard, efficiently and productively = slavery only in India.

3. Indian laborers are least efficient, because the pay is not too attractive for the efficient, well-trained people.
That is wholly inaccurate. Incentives can provide some extrinsic motivation, but there has to be intrinsic will to work hard as well.

4. People who cannot manage two times of good meal, who are dieing because they don't have enough money to buy medicine are exploiting the rich? OK, alright. Perhaps that's why we are talking about the "Rural Urban Gap" and the "Rich and Poor Gap". Its very easy to criticize other, don't forget a boy begging at Delhi Railway Station might have done better than many of us in real life, provided he had born in a good family with enough money to get all the opportunities we have gotten.
Go re-read my post, I am talking about the unions. Have you ever dealt with these union types and the Subhas Chandra Bose Karamchari Sangathan types ? I deal with them and they exploit the businessmen and they harm the labourers themselves.

5. Shift from Agrarian to Industrialized economy must be gradual and sustainable, otherwise we will face the same fate as USSR. Did the large-scale industrialization during Nehru's era do any good to our economy? Large economies evolve, they are not made.
or the same fate as China's ?
Nehru's period was socialism coupled with nationalization of industries, we have come 180 degrees from that or at least want to.
 

Singh

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TATAs and Birlas know India and know how to tackle them. Unionism is good and bad. It has screwed many an industries.

One thing is for sure that the west is pretty stuck up with company policy etc. Japan is pretty much like west.

The other day I hosted an Aussie who is trying to push his company's products here is actually stuck because of company policy.

Want to be part of India's success story, be flexible I told him.
That is so sad to hear, for a person to realize his entrepreneurial potential in India, he has to part with his morals and pride.
 

amitkriit

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TATAs and Birlas know India and know how to tackle them. Unionism is good and bad. It has screwed many an industries.

One thing is for sure that the west is pretty stuck up with company policy etc. Japan is pretty much like west.

The other day I hosted an Aussie who is trying to push his company's products here is actually stuck because of company policy.

Want to be part of India's success story, be flexible I told him.
I was ready a Japanese article on Hero Honda unrest, it said that had the management dealt with the employees in Japan in similar manner, they were all going to end up in jail.

If these people wish to stick to their company policies, that might happen provided they offer the same salary to their employees in India which they offer to people in their own countries. They cannot be allowed to run their business on their own terms and keep all the profit for themselves.
 

Singh

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I was ready a Japanese article on Hero Honda unrest, it said that had the management dealt with the employees in Japan in similar manner, they were all going to end up in jail.

If these people wish to stick to their company policies, that might happen provided they offer the same salary to their employees in India which they offer to people in their own countries. They cannot be allowed to run their business on their own terms and keep all the profit for themselves.
if they provide all the same benefits, then why come to India ? and how about if we raise the rates, standard of living, and infrastructure to the standards of Japanese and then demand the same pay ??

You are being selfish; you want Indians to remain poor and jobless because no one is going to give Indian labour parity with what workers of developed nations make nor share a large part of their profits with workers la the tenets of marx.
 

amitkriit

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That is so sad to hear, for a person to realize his entrepreneurial potential in India, he has to part with his morals and pride.
I passed out of IIT Kharagpur in 2007, never opted for campus placement and founded my own company and run it with the money I made by freelancing while I was still a student. Never asked for a penny from my parents. I am an entrepreneur, I am currently serving as Director, Technology of a small-sized IT company with a turnover of a little more than 200 crore. My company employs more than 100 people. Being an Entrepreneur is being flexible, innovative and most of all being realistic. I have met many who lived in Utopia and have achieved nothing substantial in their lives. Its very easy to put blame on others.
 

amitkriit

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if they provide all the same benefits, then why come to India ? and how about if we raise the rates, standard of living, and infrastructure to the standards of Japanese and then demand the same pay ??

You are being selfish; you want Indians to remain poor and jobless because no one is going to give Indian labour parity with what workers of developed nations make nor share a large part of their profits with workers la the tenets of marx.
If they cannot, then they must shut up and run their business in Indian way. They cannot get the best of this world, even if they wish to. And yes I believe in giving a fare share of the profit back to the society. Society has made us what we are, if you don't believe me then take a vacation and go to an inhabited island. U will know the real value of the pieces of paper u call money/currency, when they will become 100% useless.
 

Adux

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I passed out of IIT Kharagpur in 2007, never opted for campus placement and founded my own company and run it with the money I made by freelancing while I was still a student. Never asked for a penny from my parents. I am an entrepreneur, I am currently serving as Director, Technology of a small-sized IT company with a turnover of a little more than 200 crore. My company employs more than 100 people. Being an Entrepreneur is being flexible, innovative and most of all being realistic. I have met many who lived in Utopia and have achieved nothing substantial in their lives. Its very easy to put blame on others.
You need to create a wikipedia page.
 

Singh

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I passed out of IIT Kharagpur in 2007, never opted for campus placement and founded my own company and run it with the money I made by freelancing while I was still a student. Never asked for a penny from my parents. I am an entrepreneur, I am currently serving as Director, Technology of a small-sized IT company with a turnover of a little more than 200 crore. My company employs more than 100 people. Being an Entrepreneur is being flexible, innovative and most of all being realistic. I have met many who lived in Utopia and have achieved nothing substantial in their lives. Its very easy to put blame on others.

That is admirable, I resect and admire self-made men such as yourself.
Can you tell me how may of your 100+ employees are blue collar workers ? How many times are you willing to put in overtime to meet deadlines ?

I am in the manufacturing sector, I deal with blue collar workers exclusively. I have had to shut down one of my plants because of union problems and threats. I have to pay money at each and every stage, hell I have to bribe employees of private companies to get work done.

Contrast this with US, where so many Indians go and realize their entrepreneurial potential.
 

amitkriit

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You need to create a wikipedia page.
That was a response to this comment: "That is so sad to hear, for a person to realize his entrepreneurial potential in India, he has to part with his morals and pride.".

And whatever I wrote comes from my own personal experience. Being an Entrepreneur is not so hard, u just have to be realistic, and complain less.
 

Adux

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If they cannot, then they must shut up and run their business in Indian way. They cannot get the best of this world, even if they wish to. And yes I believe in giving a fare share of the profit back to the society. Society has made us what we are, if you don't believe me then take a vacation and go to an inhabited island. U will know the real value of the pieces of paper u call money/currency, when they will become 100% useless.
There is nothing in fair in sending back 'fair share' money to the society. It is called extortion. Society is an intangible entity while the individual is not. You sound extremely commie while making a 200 cr turnover. It is not for you or anyone to decide to what extend I should love back the society. You have the right to tax me in a fair way, and thats it. If you cant provide me what I need to run an efficient business, then you have no business asking for my money. A person sitting in an IT business have absolutely no clue the sheer torture people in the 'manufacturing' goes through. You have not endured Unioons, you have no clue.
 

Adux

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That was a response to this comment: "That is so sad to hear, for a person to realize his entrepreneurial potential in India, he has to part with his morals and pride.".

And whatever I wrote comes from my own personal experience. Being an Entrepreneur is not so hard, u just have to be realistic, and complain less.
You are not the only enterpreneur on this board, there are others who are actually a bit more successful than you are. But thanks for your visiting card. People in IT especially have no clue what militant labor unions mean. I pay something called 'nookukooli'

Nokku kooli is an unofficial labor norm in Kerala under which wages are paid to trade union activists for allowing investors/builders to unload materials using machines or their own labor[1]. In Malayalam, 'nokku kooli', translates into 'gawking wages' or 'wages for (just) looking on'.[2]
Nokku kooli often enjoys a quasi-statutory status. The wages list finalized by the Head-load Workers Welfare Fund Board in an industrial zone in Kochi shows Rs. 200 per load of ready-mix concrete. This, when the entire process is machine-driven. Similarly, one tipper load (lorry which can mechanically tip the load) fetches Rs. 15 for the union. At least 1,000 tipper lorries are at work in the Vallarpadom container trans-shipment terminal site in Kochi. Yet another example was in Idukki. Recently, the state Power minister A.K. Balan publicly censured head-load workers who took Rs 3,000 each as nokku kooli while cranes installed some 14 turbines, each weighing 80 tonnes, atop 120-ft towers, for a windmill farm.[2]
The modus operandi is usually as follows: At almost every industrial zone and residential area in the state, worker's unions posts "lookouts" whose task is to spot vehicles carrying goods. Once a quarry is spotted the news is quickly conveyed to all available union members, who then descend en masse to the place where the goods are to be offloaded. Heated negotiations then commence. The leaders often demand extortionist rates for doing the work. Their demand for a "right to work" is often not matched by an obligation to be efficient. So the usual compromise is for pay the union workers a certain amount for just watching - or gawking - while the work is done mechanically or using in-house workers. The employer, of course, loses both ways while making a double payment for the same work - he pays one group of "workers" for not working and another for actually getting it done.
Widely recognized as an unethical labor practice,[2] it is cited as one of the reasons for poor industrial development in Kerala. Following a recent change of government in the state, the new Labor Minister Shibu Baby John has said attempts to end the menace of 'nokku kooli' will commence as part of the department's agenda for the 100-day development program of the State government declared by Chief Minister Oommen Chandy.[3]
 

amitkriit

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That is admirable, I resect and admire self-made men such as yourself.
Can you tell me how may of your 100+ employees are blue collar workers ? How many times are you willing to put in overtime to meet deadlines ?

I am in the manufacturing sector, I deal with blue collar workers exclusively. I have had to shut down one of my plants because of union problems and threats. I have to pay money at each and every stage, hell I have to bribe employees of private companies to get work done.

Contrast this with US, where so many Indians go and realize their entrepreneurial potential.
My company primarily works in the field of "Embedded Systems" and "System Integration". Both hardware and software parts involved. This is a compulsion in our business that we need to deal with all kinds of employees, bot skilled (primarily Electronic and Computer Engineers) and semi-skilled (Those working at our fabrication plant in Rurkee, Those working on sites).

Start-ups in USA are more successful because they manage to get what we call seed-money very easily. We had to deal with these problems, but we took these problems as a part of our business and sorted them out. I will give a recent example, one of our project teams involved in a critical process tried to blackmail us: Their condition was either we hike their pay or they will stop the work leading to delays in delivery. Managing your Human Resource is a fine art, and this is learnt through a lot of experience. We have got experienced people who deal with such problems.
 

amitkriit

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You are not the only enterpreneur on this board, there are others who are actually a bit more successful than you are. But thanks for your visiting card. People in IT especially have no clue what militant labor unions mean. I pay something called 'nookukooli'
I never said that I am the most successful one, but then I am not a day dreamer, whose only contributions to the humanity are air castles they build for themselves. Its up to you how you take my views, whether u wish to take them positively or you decide to ignore them because I am an under-achiever by your standard.
 

Yusuf

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Oh yeah. Inhale heard about the dreaded labor in Kerala. I heard you can't even pick your own bags and move. You have to use a labor who will charge you a bomb.
 

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I agree that people in "sophisticated and insulated" industries like IT have no idea of the real trouble at the grassroots level. Most IT employees stay in their own cocoon, and live from apartment to car to office to mall and back home. They have no idea of what goes on around, they have no connect with reality. All they know is what the English media feeds them.

Before someone kicks my butt out, let me proclaim that I myself am into IT, but I like to think that I am one of the more 'grounded in reality' ones. :namaste:
 

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