Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNREGA

[Bangalorean]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Looks like the CEOs are not happy that there aren't enough labourers willing to work of measly pay. Why don't the CEOs themselves get onto the fields and start working? They can still get the same pay as they are currently drawing. Would that be acceptable to them? Let the market call the shots. If there aren't enough labourers, introduce mechanization of agriculture. What is the point in complaining? At least, this will spawn a farm equipment industry in India, and generate jobs.

It is always amusing when a leftist speaks of the "market". Has it struck you that schemes like NREGA interfere with the so-called "market"? How can you say "let the market decide" in the same breath as defending NREGA?

When will the leftists of our country understand that such massive government money distribution schemes are just another name for wastage, pilferage and corruption? Every such massive government program with mass money distribution is yet another factor that eats into the vitals of our country.

Leftists, wake up. The CEOs might be whining here, but forget the CEOs - I am surprised that even after all these decades of experience we have Indian leftists supporting such massive government spending programs. Just perpetuate poverty, let India be in the same state as it was for all these decades - that seems to be the motto of Indian leftists supporting gargantuan government spending in the name of one NehruGandhi scheme or the other.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Today due to such silly schemes there is a shortage of skilled and semi skilled labour for the industry. The short term pain is there for the industry but then most of them have started investing in systems and equipment towards automation. In a short time when the Govt. dole runs out these leftist economists are going to find out that the number of jobs has drastically reduced.

In a labour intensive industry like Textile, due to automation the mills are able to reduce the workforce by nearly 60% to 70%. If a majority of the mills switch over then what will happen to the jobs. Does the Government have a mechanism to upgrade their skill levels. Today they are happy to let a large percentage of population remain as labourers for ever with no improvement in sight in their near future. If this is MNREGA then it should be scrapped immediately.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

It is always amusing when a leftist speaks of the "market". Has it struck you that schemes like NREGA interfere with the so-called "market"? How can you say "let the market decide" in the same breath as defending NREGA?

When will the leftists of our country understand that such massive government money distribution schemes are just another name for wastage, pilferage and corruption? Every such massive government program with mass money distribution is yet another factor that eats into the vitals of our country.

Leftists, wake up. The CEOs might be whining here, but forget the CEOs - I am surprised that even after all these decades of experience we have Indian leftists supporting such massive government spending programs. Just perpetuate poverty, let India be in the same state as it was for all these decades - that seems to be the motto of Indian leftists supporting gargantuan government spending in the name of one NehruGandhi scheme or the other.

Well, if you would have read all my comments, you would not have come up with this hair brained comment.

The US gives money for being unemployed, in India, we give money for being employed - there is a big difference. What market does this scheme interfere with? A market where you can exploit people? I am rather happy you are unhappy with this interference of the market. If this scheme weren't there, people wouldn't be able to earn the minimum wage.

When you travel by train, how much money do you pay? I am pretty sure you pay subsidized fares, no?

Pot-Kettle.

 

[Vishwarupa]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Rising farm wages will lift all boats


LOOKING AHEAD:MGNREGA's synergy with agriculture is unexploited in parts and needs to be strengthened further. —PHOTO: RITU RAJ KONWAR
A recent paper by the Commission for Agricultural Costs and Prices (CACP) has argued that the "push" factors of the Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (MGNREGA) are not as important as the economic growth "pull" factors, for increasing agricultural wages. The paper has received wide media attention and provided intellectual fodder to the usual anti-MGNREGA commentators. However, the conclusions of the analysis could well be misleading and in other instances, be stating the obvious.

First, the fact that MGNREGA has reversed the stagnation of agricultural wages of the early 2000s is well established by data and research, including that of CACP. An analysis by Jean Drèze observes that the pre-MGNREGA (2000–1 to 2005-6) growth rate of real agricultural wages was around 0.1 per cent per year for men and negative for women. After the implementation of MGNREGA (2005-6 to 2010-11), the growth rate for agricultural wages for men increased to 2.7 per cent per year and for women to 3.7 per cent per year.

Second, it is clear that investments in MGNREGA and agricultural growth and economic activities like construction, are not mutually exclusive. In other words, the importance of growth for development cannot be undermined and this should be viewed as being complementary, not alternative, to a social security scheme like MGNREGA.

Methodology

That said, there are also concerns with regard to the methodology and the interpretation of the results of CACP's paper. MGNREGA self-targets itself to low wage areas and the correlation between MGNREGA employment (the primary variable in the analysis) and agricultural minimum wages is likely to be negative even if MGNREGA has had a substantial upward effect on wages. Thus, CACP's econometric model in the paper is simply not correct. Further, the legal agricultural minimum wages, used in the analysis, are not accurate reflections of the prevailing agricultural wages in several areas across the country. There are variations within States and wages tend to be higher in regions that are relatively developed due to factors such as better agro-climatic conditions, infrastructure facilities, and the availability of alternative employment. Once again, this substantiates the self-targeting claim of MGNREGA to less developed areas.

The CACP analysis also does not include district, time, seasonality and rainfall effects. On this account, results from research done by Oxford University, including a panel of 249 districts across 19 Indian States from a period of 2000-2011 appear more robust.

The analysis found that each annual person-day of employment generated by MGNREGA in a district increases real daily agricultural wage rates by 1.6 per cent in that district. On an average, MGNREGA boosts real daily agricultural wage rates by 5.3 per cent. The wage increase is true both for males and females and remains significant even after controlling for rainfall, district and time fixed effects, and phase-wise time trends. The research also indicates that MGNREGA mainly affects unskilled wages.

There is also an evident contradiction in CACP's criticism of MGNREGA that suggests that though MGNREGA has not significantly impacted agricultural wages, it is responsible for an increase in labour costs and diversion of labour.

Welfare benefits

It is also important to note the findings of other studies on the topic. According to an analysis by the Paris School of Economics in 2011, MGNREGA also leads to an increase in private sector wages and has welfare benefits for non-participating households. The gains from the rise in wages are more for the poor and marginalised, including women. The National Sample Survey Office confirms that MGNREGA has reduced the traditional gender wage discrimination which was apparent in several States across the country. A study undertaken by the Ministry of Agriculture in 2010-11 also supported the fact that actual average wages under MGNREGA are higher than average wages in other types of public work and agricultural casual work.

MGNREGA also has enormous potential to boost agricultural growth. It has allowed the people in rural areas to undertake activities like desilting, pond excavation, etc in their own villages and on their own land, to increase water availability, soil fertility and develop land. A recent study of four States by the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) found that MGNREGA works have increased the area irrigated, soil fertility and contributed to an increase in crop yields in the range of 46 per cent to 100 per cent across districts. Also, as per the study, due to land development under MGNREGA, previously uncultivable land has now been brought under cultivation. In Andhra Pradesh, the increase has been estimated to be by as much as 10-15 per cent.

MGNREGA also has a positive impact in creating sustainable livelihoods for individual beneficiary households. As per a study conducted by Sambodhi, a research organisation, in six States, almost 85 per cent of the farmers have reported an improvement in land quality after the creation of MGNREGA assets. In the same sample, 11 per cent and 12 per cent of beneficiaries have also started horticulture and sowing of additional crops on their land.

Evidently, both MGNREGA and agricultural growth have a significant role to play in increasing agricultural wages and in rural development.

While MGNREGA is a definite source of income for small and marginal farmers and marginalised households across the country, its synergy with agriculture is unexploited in parts and needs to be further strengthened. The ultimate aim of MGNREGA is undoubtedly to allow for reductions in its own allocations in a way that the landed and landless labourers become self-sufficient and move back to farming on their own land or on to other more lucrative livelihood opportunities.
Rising farm wages will lift all boats - The Hindu

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Anybody who has a problem with MGNREGA interfering with the market, may:

• Stop using any kind of vehicle that uses subsidized fuel (diesel, etc..)
• Stop using electricity/LPG/CNG if it is subsidized.
• Stop travelling by train, such a local trains, where the fares are subsidized.

In other words, get off the gravy train - I ain't letting my taxes subsidize your life.

And for those who are worried that there aren't enough labourers at the "ideal" market rate, may please apply for this job below, for Rs. 30 a day:

Take Note: @Bangalorean, a new career opportunity for you.

 

[Ray]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Farms hit, freeze NREG for 3 months/yr: Pawar to PM -

Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar has told Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that while assets created under the NREGA "may or may not have productive use", the programme was "adversely" impacting the agriculture sector by "drawing out agriculture labourers from agricultural operations".

The agriculture minister is learnt to have said that NREGA was supposed to be "fallback option" in situations when "rural economy failed to provide normal job opportunities in agriculture" either due to agriculture "off-season" or due to natural calamities.

"Past experience has, however, shown that in reality MNREGA works have started impacting agriculture sector itself as it has resulted in drawing out agriculture labourers from agricultural operations. Since critical agricultural operations are required to be carried out at appropriate times and cannot be postponed, this has led to increasing agricultural wage rates, impacting cost of cultivation and affecting farming viability adversely.

- See more at: Farms hit, freeze NREG for 3 months/yr: Pawar to PM - Indian Express

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Farms hit, freeze NREG for 3 months/yr: Pawar to PM -

Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar has told Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that while assets created under the NREGA "may or may not have productive use", the programme was "adversely" impacting the agriculture sector by "drawing out agriculture labourers from agricultural operations".

Mr. Sharad Pawar may kindly explain why the increase of labour wages has not been commensurate with the rate of inflation and rise in food costs? Refer here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...s-ceos-point-fingers-mnrega-2.html#post732760

Of course agriculture is not productive if the farmers don't earn enough to keep abreast in the rapidly changing inflationary economy.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Why pay people to stay at home doing unproductive labor? If rural markets cannot support that many man-hours of labor each year, let the surplus migrate to cities and work in manufacturing...

MNREGA is not meant for people to sit at home to draw money. It is meant for people actually doing something and getting paid for that.

Check this report:

No doubt, NREGA is good scheme. The Central government is also providing funds to state government for effective implementation of this scheme. But corruption is a big hurdle in its way.

At every level, funds are distributing among concerned officials. Even village sarpanch and secretary is misusing the funds. Laborers are too not being hired for any work.

In reality, at village level, people of elite class are getting 100 days jobs. Interestingly, they are getting remuneration without doing any kind of job. Millions have been enlisted in job cards. Fake and benami laborers are mentioned on the paper, quite similar to fake employees of Satyam.

Source: Facts and figures about three years of NREGA

The problem is not with the scheme, but with this impressive quality that defines most Indians, i.e. corruption.

Things are not bad everywhere. For example in Rajasthan, work has actually been done, like building roads, and water systems, etc..

Rajasthan ranked First for NREGA implementation by MoRD during 2007-08

Report: http://rdprd.gov.in/PDF/Implementation of NREGA-23.10.08.pdf

 

[DivineHeretic]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Putting aside poverty, government spending for one second, one must also look at the long term effects of cheap labour shortage on the rationale of the CEOs.

Till now, they've managed to earn profits while keeping expenditure as low as possible. Now, if even the giant MNCs (who arguably pay the best wages) are struggling to get enough workers, the condition of those companies lower down the hiararchy would be much worse.

There is already talk of introducing automation/mechanisation to reduce or even completely remove worker requirements. Some have already begun walking down that path. In near future, more will follow suit. Even farmers have begun introducing machines to reduce demand for workers

Now, the MNREGA employs a person for 100 of the 365 days in a year. Good for them, good wages and better work conditions. How does he earn his living for the rest of the year? Employment in the co-orporations/farms. But they are trying to reduce dependence on the workers.

The problem will arise in the near future when they, after working 100 days in their village, return for work in corporations and find their work taken over by machines. Bear in mind that they have to find work other than MNREGA for 200-265 days. Now, with low worker demand in the market, and higher supply of workers, their wages will crash. Many will be worse off still, being unable to find any work whatsoever.

How will, in this scenario, MNREGA uplift poverty?

Please bear in mind that I'm not against the poor or MNREGA. I'm not an elitist. I want them to have good wages and better working and living conditions. My point is that the large and long term effect of this scheme, especially on the industry must be studied.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

There is already talk of introducing automation/mechanisation to reduce or even completely remove worker requirements. Some have already begun walking down that path. In near future, more will follow suit. Even farmers have begun introducing machines to reduce demand for workers.

You have made some good points.

Mechanization will surely reduce demand for labour, but will not eliminate them. Now, for mechanization, we need machines. We will need to build and operate them. I think we will open up a new sector, and generate employment. The concern here is, we will still have people left over with no jobs. I think that is a challenge with any country that has a large population, and not enough space, land, or resources. However, I still believe India should go for mechanization wherever possible, as long as the machines are made locally, and not imported.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

We can go on and on debating about the MNERGA. Search Google and hundreds of articles will come out detailing the negative impact of NREGA while the Govt. website will give you the positive impact.

This is a telling storyline from ET.

Villagers in central and northern parts of this great nation of ours have coined a term that captures the impact of NREGA on the panchayat system. They call it the "Bicycle to Bolero" syndrome: if the humble pradhan used to carry out his social duties pedalling the bylanes of his village - in the post-NREGA dispensation, he does the same, relaxing in the back seat of a spanking new Bolero.

No, sorry, buying Bolero is not one of the many works approved under the NREGA Act. For those inclined towards the stats, Bolero - a vehicle hardly seen in the cities - is the fifth-largest fourwheeler sold in India, according to industry figures for 2012-13 . You know, just saying.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Anybody who has a problem with MGNREGA interfering with the market, may:

• Stop using any kind of vehicle that uses subsidized fuel (diesel, etc..)
• Stop using electricity/LPG/CNG if it is subsidized.
• Stop travelling by train, such a local trains, where the fares are subsidized.

In other words, get off the gravy train - I ain't letting my taxes subsidize your life.

And for those who are worried that there aren't enough labourers at the "ideal" market rate, may please apply for this job below, for Rs. 30 a day:

Take Note: @Bangalorean, a new career opportunity for you.

Where did you get this Rs. 30 per day figure. Was it 10 years back?

Just look at the figures, all figures are official figures and are mostly followed

Paycheck.in - Delhi Minimum Wages from April to September 2013, Revised Minimum Wage Rates in India

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Where did you get this Rs. 30 per day figure. Was it 10 years back?

My personal experience, just like you presented your personal experience.

It has been proven that MNREGA is responsible for jobless growth. I have seen personally seen labour from Bihar, Orissa prefer to work for 7 months in North and then rush home to get enrolled in MNREGA for 3 months and relax for one month. after a 4 month holiday they are back to their old jobs where their old employer is more than happy to take them back with no questions asked.

Recently CAG in a scathing report pointed out that almost 30% of the work carried out under this scheme was not supposed to have been covered under this and lesser said about the pilferage.

Two can play this game, you know!

Just look at the figures, all figures are official figures and are mostly followed

Paycheck.in - Delhi Minimum Wages from April to September 2013, Revised Minimum Wage Rates in India

There are some figures on which I would like to ask you something, if you refer to this report: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...s-ceos-point-fingers-mnrega-2.html#post732760

Labour wages had stagnated in 2000, yet, there has been inflation since 2000. Explain why.
Between 2000–1 to 2005-6, the agricultural wage growth rate for men was 0.1%. Was the inflation rate for that period 0.1%? Explain why.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Rs. 30 per day for daily wage owner I would love to know where in India it is available. All the industries would rush there.

who says Labour wages have stagnated in 2000. It is upwardly revised every year.

Is the agriculture sector contributing 100% to the economy that your are comparing the growth rate and the annual inflation rate? Come on. this is not worth discussing even. Just for your information MSP for wheat was raised 10% last year.

Ask any farmer in Punjab and he will tell you about the wage growth rate in last 10 years.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Looking at the tall claims by the Govt. in the newspapers

Did Indira abolish bonded labour or Sonia? NREGA’s tall claims - Firstpost

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

Rs. 30 per day for daily wage owner I would love to know where in India it is available. All the industries would rush there.

It was a hypothetical number I made up to indicate the labour wage if there were no MNREGA interference, to counter @Bangalorean who suggested that MNREGA was interfering with the market forces.

who says Labour wages have stagnated in 2000. It is upwardly revised every year.

Did you refer to the report? What you are saying is pure fiction. Who cares what is revised in official records? What matters is what is actually happening on the ground, and the report reflects the ground realities, just like NMREGA scheme is good, but due to corruption, many people are earning money without working. Refer to this post: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...s-ceos-point-fingers-mnrega-2.html#post732793

Is the agriculture sector contributing 100% to the economy that your are comparing the growth rate and the annual inflation rate? Come on. this is not worth discussing even. Just for your information MSP for wheat was raised 10% last year.

National Inflation Rate is not computed on wheat alone. Please refer to this link, so that you get a better idea of inflation: How India calculates inflation

Are you saying the average income of unskilled labourers have kept up with inflation? If that is what you are thinking, you are living in a very different universe.

Ask any farmer in Punjab and he will tell you about the wage growth rate in last 10 years.

No, sorry, I am not in the bent of mind to refer to personal experiences and anecdotal evidence. I have the statistical report, so what you are saying has little weight.

Coming back to Punjab, where you claim there has been wage growth, can you please explain this report from last year? In Punjab, three farmers kill selves every two days

You seem to be completely cut off from reality.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

From the same article link given above in post #35

But contrast this with what the Planning Commission, headed by Manmohan Singh's pal Montek Singh Ahluwalia, says in the 12th Plan. Between 1999 and 2004, it says quoting National Sample Survey data, the economy created six crore jobs. By 2009-10, after five years of fast-paced growth, the economy created all of 0.27 crore jobs.

As Shankkar Aiyar notes in a New India Express column quoting the plan document: "Employment in manufacturing declined in absolute terms from 55 million to 50 million between 2004-05 and 2009-10, after having grown from 44 million to 55 million between 1999-00 and 2004-05. In services, employment increased from 94.20 million in 1999-2000 to 112.81 million in 2004-05 and declined marginally to 112.33 million in 2009-10. The working group on employment for the 12th Plan reveals that between 1999 and 2004, the economy, across all sectors added 60 million jobs while between 2005 and 2010, it added barely 2.72 million jobs."

In short, during the slow-growth NDA period, the economy created 60 million (six crore) jobs across all sectors, while in the fast-growth UPA-1 period it created a measly 2.72 million – or 0.27 crore jobs.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

From the same article link given above in post #35

That doesn't answer any of my questions.

Don't worry, you will keep embarrassing yourself with all the fiction you have been writing. I suggest you go back to your personal anecdotes, and don't debate with me.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

PM did you read the article from Tribune you just gave a link to.

the gradual rise in drug addiction, diseases like cancer and AIDS and a growing trend among farmers with small land holdings to borrow large sums of money to organise ceremonies like weddings and other family functions.

It is not only the input cost that had led the farmers to take to this fatal route. According to my survey, 90 per cent farmers were into drugs and were unable to sustain the habit. In several other cases, they borrowed money to enjoy the luxuries of life. In other cases, farmers had been reeling under debt due to diseases such as cancer and AIDS which are very expensive to treat," she said.

 

[sob]

Re: Labour shortage for India Inc projects - CEOs point fingers at MNR

That doesn't answer any of my questions.

Don't worry, you will keep embarrassing yourself with all the fiction you have been writing. I suggest you go back to your personal anecdotes, and don't debate with me.

Ha Ha that is the best you could come up with.