Kulbhushan Jadhav - Developments

[Indx TechStyle]

What is your opinion?

In my personal opinion, Jadhav is our guy. So, we are more prone to conviction.

To save him, we've to prove that he was kidnapped from Iran. Even if by jihadis, that'll be enough to defend him.

For what's going on in court, I don't know. All I see is that both parties are throwing attacks at each other.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Jadhav cannot be saved. But if ICJ at the very least declares his conviction illegal it will give India the upper hand in diplomatic circles.

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[hit&run]

Jadhav cannot be saved. But if ICJ at the very least declares his conviction illegal it will give India the upper hand in diplomatic circles.

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Jadhav was a gone case the day he was caught. He will be not the same person or a reliable source even if we get him back. If you think GoI don't know this then you are not working hard to understand the whole phenomenon.

India is not using it to gain an upper hand in any terms but showing its conviction and assertiveness to protect its citizens by indulging into this historic exercise.

 

[Samaritan]

Jadhav cannot be saved. But if ICJ at the very least declares his conviction illegal it will give India the upper hand in diplomatic circles.

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In other words , it is difficult to get him back.What we are doing now is to question the Military court verdict in PAk and not granting councilor access to KJ! In my opinion Mr.Salve is very right not to go for direct acquittal .First step is to question Military court ruling which is easy to load and then ask for retrial in civil court pleading for basic human rights to have councilor access.This will have doubble effect.1.There will be question mark on all the military ruling in pak in future and 2.KJ will get some lifeline and time . I do not see KJ's release from PAK in near future .Case may go on for his rest of the life unless some miracle happens.(just the way we could hold 91000 PAK jawans in our custody)

 

[Samaritan]

Sonia Gandhi ecosystem is already set and ready to go against Modi using election excuse to get Pakistan off-hook. Old Pakistani propaganda is now domesticated like many of their other propaganda abuses.

Pimp Rajdeep Sardesai has already done one debate, Mamta Banerjee is accusing Modi on the timing of Pulwama attack, bastards like Ajai Shukla started it; following an OpEd by another librandu implying that this attack will help Modi in elections.

Imran Khan saying the same today has completed the circle.

Now this propaganda will be mainstreamed in the background of leftover of partition like Gulam Nabi Azad who said 'they kill us in Kashmir'.

Modi is definitely in a bind but at the same time if he understands 'Dharma' then he must endure all the insults and lose the elections but take revenge. He should die the political death ambushed by these Pimps fighting for his subjects.

It is time to go suicidal.

Do not worry ! Modi is different breed! Mark my words,He will be PM with full majority in 2019.
Look at today's TOI's survey! 83% people want Modi.I know this is not the real picture.But fact is that there is nothing against him.Importantly if you look in that , 36% voted that they like hime because of his good policies for Poors.That's sums it up.

 

[Jay99]

Jadhav cannot be saved. But if ICJ at the very least declares his conviction illegal it will give India the upper hand in diplomatic circles.

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So what happens if ICJ rules in india's favour?

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

So what happens if ICJ rules in india's favour?

The same when UN banned Hafiz Saeed.

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[hit&run]

So what happens if ICJ rules in india's favour?

Pakistan has crossed many lines at ICJ. Non-compliance will add to one more reason to go to war.

 

[Haldiram]

Nicaragua had once won a case against the US in the ICJ, but the US used their UN veto to overturn that judgment.

Now regardless of which direction the judgment goes, the final outcome will depend on which country is able to muster UN veto support. If it goes against Pakistan and if China uses their veto to overturn it, then the ICJ result wont be binding upon Pakistan.

 

[Why so serious?]

India objects to Pak's use of abusive language at ICJ

"India strongly objects to abusive language of Pakistan's counsel," Salve said

India on Wednesday strongly objected to the abusive language used by Pakistan's counsel in the Kulbhushan Jadhav case at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), urging the UN court to draw a redline.

Harish Salve, the former solicitor general of India while presenting India's case before the ICJ, drew the court's attention to the abusive language used by Pakistan through its counsel Khawar Qureshi on the second day of the hearing.


"The language echoed in this court... perhaps this Court may lay down some redlines. The transcript is peppered with words such as shameless, nonesense, disgraceful... India takes exception to being addressed in this fashion in an international court


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"India strongly objects to abusive language of Pakistan's counsel," Salve said as the International Court of Justice began the second round of public hearing in the Kulbhushan Jadhav case.

Jadhav, a retired Indian Navy officer, was sentenced to death by a Pakistani military court on charges of "espionage and terrorism" after a closed trial in April 2017. His sentencing evoked a sharp reaction in India.


On Wednesday, India will have a maximum of 90 minutes to submit its final arguments in the case. Pakistan will also get 90 minutes to respond to India's arguments on Thursday.

The ICJ is expected to deliver its verdict in the summer of 2019.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Can't we get him through a covert operation. Don't wanna see him dead.

 

[Jay99]

The same when UN banned Hafiz Saeed.

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I mean will the decision from ICJ guarantee KJ being freed and handed back to india?

 

[lupgain]

Pakistan Fancies with this

 

[Enquirer]

Yeah, see Pak stand and main thrust: KJ is spy sent to create terror attacks, therefore VCCR not applicable to us.

Now keep this in mind, for the aforesaid stand to be at least taken, as VCCR not applicable, they have to at least show on record about the spying and terror charges from record of military tribunal case. Neither Order of capital sentence, nor chargesheet, nor evidence was produce.

Now this is what our stand it: VCCR violated and he was not given right to plead his defence, as in foreign land he has no one to take care of his lawyer etc. If record of military tribunal would have shown that he was represented by lawyer etc that might be different. But Pak pleadings and evidence didnt showed anything. All they had one passport and Indian media + tweets.

This is how bad their pleadings is. They might go in circles with passport, its not much of crime at max to sentance anyone to death.

Now think all this in front of best Judicial minds before World Court. You as Judge you will think of fundamental human right. If Pak dont show above in ICJ, imagine what KJ had gone through in Pakistan. He was sentance to death by MT, but Pak is not showing above record, they are just going in circles.

Now IL and all Judicial forums and Judges are unanimous on the fact that State has so much power over Individual that it could take away all things including life of individual, therfore concept of Human Rights and protection of the same, over state action. State has to play as per rules recognised in International Law and domestic law, as all are signatory of UN etc etc.

Yep. Pakis case is hopelessly constructed.

Their linking of purported false passport to terrorism is a flight of imagination.

All most all cases brought before ICJ on consular access issue were about some kind of a procedural slip. Pakis are the only state that is willfully violating it in order to perpetuate terror in their own right!

The queasy thing for India is not so much about establish the culpability of Pakistan, but in getting the remedy that's actually meaningful!

Pakis in Paki land will always assume that they're winning.....in previous hearing they thought their lawyer's accent is the clinching decider of the case; and this time they're exuberant about his theatrics.

 

[Enquirer]

Qureshi was a deflated balloon today! The long pauses after each and every word consumed more time than the speaking time. He was a real bore!

As I pointed out in my earlier post, Pakis were dumb to cite several past instances where consular access was denied as evidences because those instances predated the promulgation of 'Vienna convention on consular relations'.
Just when you thought they couldn't get any more dumb, they prove you wrong!
(Even though Salve did not rebut the citing of instances on the basis of them predating VCCR). Today (as if he read my earlier post here), Qureshi said denial of consular access (to spies) was in vogue before the law requiring them to provide it (to all) was promulgated. As such the past practice of denial should continue!
That's like saying people were raping before the law banning rapes was promulgated; as such the old practice of rapes can continue. Once for all the debate about Nature vs Nuture should be settled! Despite Indians sharing much of DNA with Pakis, their (jihadi) nuture makes the immune to logic!

Paki attorney general once again made a fool of himself by making nonsensical political observations on unrelated incidents.

The only defense they had was to prove that Kulbhushan got due process and his trial was fair - Pakis did nothing to prove that other than repeating a million times that their 'military courts have constitutional sanction'.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

I mean will the decision from ICJ guarantee KJ being freed and handed back to india?

KJ sadly will never be freed. If the verdict goes againist Pakistan, they will refuse to abide by it.

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[Enquirer]

KJ sadly will never be freed. If the verdict goes againist Pakistan, they will refuse to abide by it.

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That will be a good reason to push UN for declaring Pak as state-sponsor-of-terror.

The most likely scenario is that ICJ might direct Pakis to provide consular access and retry in civilian courts. Paki army/ISI will present fake witnesses and evidence. Remember that Pakis have captured real perpetrators of terrorism (like Ehsan ullah Ehsan for Peshawar school massacre) but they haven't been tried/punished; instead they are given 5-star luxury in return for making false statements that they were funded by India. It'll be very easy for them to bring such scum in the court to give testimony that Kulbhushan directed them

Paki's Islamized judiciary will reimpose the death sentence.

The drama can end in India's favor only if Saudis etc force Pak to release Kulbhushan OR India raids Pak to rescue him OR India takes some high value Paki into custody & goes for an exchange. The last option might ensure best odds for success

 

[Samaritan]

I mean will the decision from ICJ guarantee KJ being freed and handed back to india?

NO! You have to leave him on his fate.It is almost impossible that PAK releases him even after ICJ verdict.But we have kkep on fighting even if their is no possibility.

 

[Enquirer]

NO! You have to leave him on his fate.It is almost impossible that PAK releases him even after ICJ verdict.But we have kkep on fighting even if their is no possibility.

Firstly you've to qualify what the verdict is. ICJ is unlikely to give a verdict to release Kulbhushan. It'll moslty be for retrial - which Pakis will oblige but will of course hold a sham trial in civilian court!

 

[Indx TechStyle]

If retrial is there, Pakistan won't subject him to death penalty again amid tensions for sure, I think.
Government saved his life at least. Now, bringing him back is challenge.