Kulbhushan Jadhav - Developments

[hit&run]

It'll take at least 2-3 months for the final judgment to come.

Currently Jadhav's sentence is suspended by ICJ. If they kill him under any pretext, that would constitute contempt of the court - Pakis will bear the brunt of that.

But yes, if India attacks some prominent paki army HQs then they cud claim that he was housed there and India killed him. I doubt India will launch strikes on Rawalpindi etc. Hitting Jaish/Lashkar's headquarters in Bahawalput/Muridke would be a great start and then followed by few army posts/HQs on POK/LOC.

Modi is definitely in a bind - he would desperately want in hit back & he has to hit before the elections. If he doesn't hit before the elections (especially after opposition have given him a carteblanche), then there's a good chance that people will deduce Modi to be a paper tiger like all other past PMs....the election will throw out a split verdict...then there'll be a lot of horse-trading among parties and they'll pick another useless Deve Gowda!

Sonia Gandhi ecosystem is already set and ready to go against Modi using election excuse to get Pakistan off-hook. Old Pakistani propaganda is now domesticated like many of their other propaganda abuses.

Pimp Rajdeep Sardesai has already done one debate, Mamta Banerjee is accusing Modi on the timing of Pulwama attack, bastards like Ajai Shukla started it; following an OpEd by another librandu implying that this attack will help Modi in elections.

Imran Khan saying the same today has completed the circle.

Now this propaganda will be mainstreamed in the background of leftover of partition like Gulam Nabi Azad who said 'they kill us in Kashmir'.

Modi is definitely in a bind but at the same time if he understands 'Dharma' then he must endure all the insults and lose the elections but take revenge. He should die the political death ambushed by these Pimps fighting for his subjects.

It is time to go suicidal.

 

[hit&run]

Lol. Which court goes by media articles? T

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

That is not the point Saar.

The point is these traitors have outlived their utility. Now they are nothing but nuisance and hindrance to India's rise.

 

[hit&run]

My message to ISI rat Praveen Swami gone.

Apne maa **** ke khush hai aab?

 

[sorcerer]

There was breaking news that the paki judge got diarrhea and called in sick

 

[Innocent]

There was breaking news that the paki judge got diarrhea and called in sick

Nope, he had cardiac arrest ( maybe he is faking it to avoid shame).

During Kulbhushan Jadhav Case Hearing, Pakistan Ad Hoc Judge Suffers Cardiac Arrest at ICJ: Report

 

[sorcerer]

Nope, he had cardiac arrest ( maybe he is faking it to avoid shame).

During Kulbhushan Jadhav Case Hearing, Pakistan Ad Hoc Judge Suffers Cardiac Arrest at ICJ: Report

Cardiac ARREST is few notches about Diarrhea .. That some SHit SCARE LEVEL of pakis
pakis are really worried about losing.

Thats the clue for the Pak media to say..
ICJ Unfair as pak judge had cardiac arrest and ICJ went along with India against pakis.

 

[Enquirer]

Here's my short commentary on Paki defense:

- Paki Attorney General appeared clueless of what he was reading (from a paper). Couldn't even say some English words after attempting to pronounce it several times. His opening statement asking for an adjournment was so confusing - that even the judges didn't seem to understand what he wanted!

- Qureishi was full of theatrics and mockery!
- His entire evidence to prove Kulbhushan as spy relies on only publicly available info - his passport, name blah blah. But no evidence as to what exact terror acts he performed and how.
- He gave several examples of US/USSR not giving consular access to spies; but all those were from days before Vienna Convention rules on Consular Access was promulgated! How dumb must this Qureishi guy be?
- He tried to show that some Military conviction were overturned by civilian courts, but showed no proof of due process in the prosecution of Kulbhushan.
- He actually said that the burden of proof is on India (to prove Kulbhushan's not a spy). Can any lawyer ever say this in a court, leave alone in an international court? India's not convicting anyone....it's only asking for due process. Even though, technically speaking India's the plaintiff in this case at ICJ; but the right way to see is India's the defendant & is now in an appeals court to overturn the wrongful prosecution of a lower (sham) court in Pak.
- One hand he claims the petition should be dismissed but also says that the remedy offered could be 'retrial' (but made no mention of consular access). How can ICJ order for a retrial without establishing that the original trial was flawed - and the things wrong in the initial trial are 'no consular access provided' and 'no due process'. So any retrial order has to come with an order to rectify the earlier flaws; which means 'provide consular access' & possibly 'try in a civilian court'. Paki legal team didn't think this thru carefully before offering retrial as the only remedy!
- The 2008 bilateral agreement between India-Pakistan has been beaten to death; even though (as Salve pointed) VCCR clearly states that any such bilateral agreements can only 'supplement & amplify' VCCR implying that it cannot diminish the provisions in VCCR. Qureishi brought this topic up but floundered like an idiot. Salve's argument on this is quite solid!
- His argument brushing off Salve's claim that VCCR should be connected with human rights and the bounds of ICJ's jurisdiction et al, is technically correct. However Salve made a compelling case as to why ICJ could/should go beyond its mandate. It's a hail mary pass on Salve's part....we'll have to wait and see what'll transpire.

- The mockery and theatrics of Qureishi might earn brownie points from Pakis peanut gallery, but has no substance whatsover. He made very personal attacks at several times. It was also stupid to repeatedly claim that he had the 'honor and pride' of representing India but somehow 'this India' (referring to the legal team) was somehow dishonorable & as such the case is frivolous!

All in all, Qureishi made all the possible defenses Paki could conjure up (so he can get paid), but most were not logically constructed. He wasted too much time arguing frivolous things.

 

[Flame Thrower]

https://players.brightcove.net/1362235914001/default_default/index.html?videoId=5724208663001

Link here for live....

Thank you...is there any way to look for past two days videos too....

Thanks

 

[Enquirer]

Here's my short commentary on Paki defense:

- Paki Attorney General appeared clueless of what he was reading (from a paper). Couldn't even say some English words after attempting to pronounce it several times. His opening statement asking for an adjournment was so confusing - that even the judges didn't seem to understand what he wanted!

- Qureishi was full of theatrics and mockery!
- His entire evidence to prove Kulbhushan as spy relies on only publicly available info - his passport, name blah blah. But no evidence as to what exact terror acts he performed and how.
- He gave several examples of US/USSR not giving consular access to spies; but all those were from days before Vienna Convention rules on Consular Access was promulgated! How dumb must this Qureishi guy be?
- He tried to show that some Military conviction were overturned by civilian courts, but showed no proof of due process in the prosecution of Kulbhushan.
- He actually said that the burden of proof is on India (to prove Kulbhushan's not a spy). Can any lawyer ever say this in a court, leave alone in an international court? India's not convicting anyone....it's only asking for due process. Even though, technically speaking India's the plaintiff in this case at ICJ; but the right way to see is India's the defendant & is now in an appeals court to overturn the wrongful prosecution of a lower (sham) court in Pak.
- One hand he claims the petition should be dismissed but also says that the remedy offered could be 'retrial' (but made no mention of consular access). How can ICJ order for a retrial without establishing that the original trial was flawed - and the things wrong in the initial trial are 'no consular access provided' and 'no due process'. So any retrial order has to come with an order to rectify the earlier flaws; which means 'provide consular access' & possibly 'try in a civilian court'. Paki legal team didn't think this thru carefully before offering retrial as the only remedy!
- The 2008 bilateral agreement between India-Pakistan has been beaten to death; even though (as Salve pointed) VCCR clearly states that any such bilateral agreements can only 'supplement & amplify' VCCR implying that it cannot diminish the provisions in VCCR. Qureishi brought this topic up but floundered like an idiot. Salve's argument on this is quite solid!
- His argument brushing off Salve's claim that VCCR should be connected with human rights and the bounds of ICJ's jurisdiction et al, is technically correct. However Salve made a compelling case as to why ICJ could/should go beyond its mandate. It's a hail mary pass on Salve's part....we'll have to wait and see what'll transpire.

- The mockery and theatrics of Qureishi might earn brownie points from Pakis peanut gallery, but has no substance whatsover. He made very personal attacks at several times. It was also stupid to repeatedly claim that he had the 'honor and pride' of representing India but somehow 'this India' (referring to the legal team) was somehow dishonorable & as such the case is frivolous!

All in all, Qureishi made all the possible defenses Paki could conjure up (so he can get paid), but most were not logically constructed. He wasted too much time arguing frivolous things.

What a delight to listen to Harish Salve again!
The polite bashing he did of the monkey Qureishi for his earlier obscene conduct was beautiful to watch & listen! It was like 'uska chappal leke usike sar pe maar'

@sayareakd Salve did mention the Paki constitutional amendment that you alluded to. I guess it makes sense now to mock that, since Qureishi had extolled their judicial review process etc.

Outright release of Kulbhushan might still be a long shot; Indian rep did suggest civilian trial as an alternate remedy to release!

Irrespective of the outcome of the case, I must say Indian legal team with Harish Salve as their head did an excellent job! If I ever find myself on the wrong side of the law, I wish I'd have representation from the likes of Harish Salve!

 

[sayareakd]

.............................................................

 

[sayareakd]

What a delight to listen to Harish Salve again!
The polite bashing he did of the monkey Qureishi for his earlier obscene conduct was beautiful to watch & listen! It was like 'uska chappal leke usike sar pe maar'

@sayareakd Salve did mention the Paki constitutional amendment that you alluded to. I guess it makes sense now to mock that, since Qureishi had extolled their judicial review process etc.

Outright release of Kulbhushan might still be a long shot; Indian rep did suggest civilian trial as an alternate remedy to release!

Irrespective of the outcome of the case, I must say Indian legal team with Harish Salve as their head did an excellent job! If I ever find myself on the wrong side of the law, I wish I'd have representation from the likes of Harish Salve!

Few things he missed,
1. Iranian army soldiers were abducted from Iran and bought to Pakistan.


Major major point missed by us.

2. Chairman of human right commission supported us, we missed it.


3. Article 10 of Pak constitution, its against its military Tribunal

 

[Enquirer]

Few things he missed,
1. Iranian army soldiers were abducted from Iran and bought to Pakistan.


Major major point missed by us.

2. Chairman of human right commission supported us, we missed it.


3. Article 10 of Pak constitution, its against its military Tribunal

The news about Iranians being abducted by Pakis should have been presented at ICJ. Wonder how they missed this!
Probably, they didn't focus too much on proving the kidnapping part.
I couldn't find Praveen Swami's Quint story (taken down due to the outrage) but I thought it also had some verbiage on the kidnapping story (as possibly done with the help of drug dealer Uzair Baloch). Salve read a excerpt from that article to point out Swami's mention of the inconsistencies in the Pakis changing the place of arrest but didn't mention the kidnapping part from the article (or maybe I cam confusing with a different article)

 

[Enquirer]

The news about Iranians being abducted by Pakis should have been presented at ICJ. Wonder how they missed this!
Probably, they didn't focus too much on proving the kidnapping part.
I couldn't find Praveen Swami's Quint story (taken down due to the outrage) but I thought it also had some verbiage on the kidnapping story (as possibly done with the help of drug dealer Uzair Baloch). Salve read a excerpt from that article to point out Swami's mention of the inconsistencies in the Pakis changing the place of arrest but didn't mention the kidnapping part from the article (or maybe I cam confusing with a different article)

Sorry, I take that back. Salve did quote Swami's claim that Kulbhushan was kidnapped from Saravan!

 

[hit&run]

Great arguments by Mr Salve. Steamrolled rogue state Pakistan in his presentation.

Coward Pakistani judge fell sick and Pakistan demanded his replacement.

The court slapped the losers telling them that the judge irrespective of his nationality has to work independently and fairly.

 

[sayareakd]

Sorry, I take that back. Salve did quote Swami's claim that Kulbhushan was kidnapped from Saravan!

Yeah it's their in Pak pleadings in ICJ site. Read it, it's bad pleadings.

Wait I will share link. Why should I have all the fun.
Click below Rejoinder of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan section, three pdfs.

https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/168

You will find all documents

 

[Enquirer]

Yeah it's their in Pak pleadings in ICJ site. Read it, it's bad pleadings.

Wait I will share link. Why should I have all the fun.
Click below Rejoinder of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan section, three pdfs.

https://www.icj-cij.org/en/case/168

You will find all documents

I am confused. Are you saying India's pleadings are bad or Pakistan's?

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Harish Salve pointed many contradictions in argument of Pakistani lawyer such as Pakistan quotes article of Pravin swamy etc but same article says that he was abducted from Iran which Pakistani lawyer do not want to accept.

Harish salve's many arguments were based on pointing contradiction in the argument of Pakistani lawyer. He argued by saying that " Assuming what Pakistani lawyer has said is truth.........." and than he build his argument and pointed contradictions in the argument of Pakistani Lawyer.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Well, Pakistani sources & forums are celebrating and declaring that they have upper hand. So are Indians.

Whom I should believe?

 

[sayareakd]

I am confused. Are you saying India's pleadings are bad or Pakistan's?

Yeah, see Pak stand and main thrust: KJ is spy sent to create terror attacks, therefore VCCR not applicable to us.

Now keep this in mind, for the aforesaid stand to be at least taken, as VCCR not applicable, they have to at least show on record about the spying and terror charges from record of military tribunal case. Neither Order of capital sentence, nor chargesheet, nor evidence was produce.

Now this is what our stand it: VCCR violated and he was not given right to plead his defence, as in foreign land he has no one to take care of his lawyer etc. If record of military tribunal would have shown that he was represented by lawyer etc that might be different. But Pak pleadings and evidence didnt showed anything. All they had one passport and Indian media + tweets.

This is how bad their pleadings is. They might go in circles with passport, its not much of crime at max to sentance anyone to death.

Now think all this in front of best Judicial minds before World Court. You as Judge you will think of fundamental human right. If Pak dont show above in ICJ, imagine what KJ had gone through in Pakistan. He was sentance to death by MT, but Pak is not showing above record, they are just going in circles.

Now IL and all Judicial forums and Judges are unanimous on the fact that State has so much power over Individual that it could take away all things including life of individual, therfore concept of Human Rights and protection of the same, over state action. State has to play as per rules recognised in International Law and domestic law, as all are signatory of UN etc etc.

 

[hit&run]

Well, Pakistani sources & forums are celebrating and declaring that they have upper hand. So are Indians.

Whom I should believe?

What is your opinion?

In my opinion, Salve has shaken the core of Pakistan as a pretentious state that think it is equal among equals. But Jihadis being shameless; always on survival mode, these things won't matter to them.

What Salve has done is for the civilized world to see. What I witnessed there was nothing but the roar of a rising India who is going make great strides in Geo-Political landscape.