vampyrbladez
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F 35B has the 3BSM VTOL method from Yak 141. Harrier was used as the base for this flying bathtub!
Know Your 'Rafale'
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Bhurki
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Also this..
https://www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2018/01/18/f35_uk_test_pilot_interview_sim_flight/
F-35 'incomparable' to Harrier jump jet, top test pilot tells El Reg
Naturally we demanded proof – and we got it
By Gareth Corfield
18th January 2018 15:27 GMT
172 SHARE ▼
Interview What's it like to fly an F-35 fighter jet? We interviewed the chief British test pilot about a uniquely British flying technique – and then had a play with a full cockpit simulator to find out for ourselves.
Squadron Leader Andy Edgell is the Royal Air Force's top test pilot for the F-35 flight trials programme. A former Harrier pilot with sea time on two of the UK's previous aircraft carriers, Her Majesty's Ships Ark Royal and Illustrious, as well as operational deployments to Kandahar, Afghanistan, he is now based at the US Navy's test base at Patuxent River. He spoke to The Register in London yesterday at an F-35 press event.
In his view the F-35 and the Harrier, despite broadly doing the same thing (landing vertically) are "almost incomparable" in flying terms: "The design principle of the F-35 is 'low effort' while the Harrier is a challenge to fly."
Andy explained: "The human brain has a finite capacity and we don't want to use that on flying... we want to concentrate on being an operator of sensors."
The theory behind the F-35's "sensor fusion" concept is that by putting some of the world's most advanced radars and other sensors on it, and then networking those with other F-35s, the unparalleled situational awareness this gives the pilots makes them a far more formidable fighting unit than other current frontline fighter jets.
But does the high level of automation leave you "vulnerable" to the aircraft's whims while the pilot pores over his screens, we wondered? "You are in charge, if you choose to use it. Additional automation is there too – height, speed, heading hold. If you need to be hands-on with the throttle and stick, that's available. If you had a dynamic flight, you can dial that down."
SRVL – a thoroughly British bit of innovation
Andy also talked about the "uniquely British" manoeuvre that the UK team at Pax River developed, the shipborne rolling vertical landing (SRVL). For a jet fighter like the Harrier or the F-35, the normal landing technique on an aircraft carrier is to fly over the designated spot, hover and gently set down. But, as Andy explained, this reduces the amount of what he described as "Bernoulli lift" generated by the aircraft's wings. With less lift available, you reduce the maximum landing weight (too heavy and you break the undercarriage during the thump of touchdown) – and therefore the pilot may have to jettison expensive missiles and fuel to bring the aircraft back within safe vertical landing limits.
With the SRVL technique, however, the pilot combines the vertical landing and a traditional horizontal landing like you'd see at an airport. By doing this the amount of Bernoulli lift available is increased – and, in naval aviation terms, the number of unused missiles that can be brought home to fight again with is increased.
"It's a 35-knot overtaking speed at a seven-degree angle relative to the boat," Andy said. "You're literally coming down at the perfect speed and the perfect angle. This is British, utterly British," he enthused. "Everything we've done with the VAAC Harrier at places like Boscombe [Down, home of British military aviation research], stuff with modelling on how aircraft flies, it's brilliant."
"The VAAC Harrier developed this years ago, with landings on [French aircraft carrier] Charles de Gaulle and the principles behind it were invented by the British," said Andy. The VAAC (Vectored thrust Advanced Aircraft Control) system, developed over the 1980s and 1990s by the British aeronautical industry, was eventually incorporated in the production F-35B, as is being flown by the RAF, the Royal Navy, the US Marines and Italy.
That theme of automation also plays into the training for operating the F-35. According to both Andy and BAE Systems, the biggest sub-contractor on the F-35 project, around 3,000 hours of test flying have been completed on the full-motion simulator at BAE's Warton plant. Faith in the fidelity of the simulators is critical for the "flight" trials taking place in the UK, which includes both test flying and the training of landing signals officers (LSOs), who are F-35 pilots tasked with talking their comrades safely down to the deck. The simulators for both are linked, meaning the trainee pilot and trainee LSO can interact.
Andy praised the dedication of the BAE team working on the trials, joking: "Every time I see them I'll say, how's the marriage going?"
We've heard enough about it, let's take it for a spin
The F-35 full cockpit simulator at the press event had been set up in London, as part of Lockheed Martin and the Ministry of Defence's efforts to tell the Great British Public that the heart-stoppingly expensive "fifth generation" aircraft really is worth its £100m-ish price tag.
The full cockpit simulator at BAE Warton. Ours was mostly similar
As part of this, your correspondent was cordially invited to have a go at landing the jet on an aircraft carrier. Frankly, it was so easy anyone could do it after being told which three buttons to press.
The F-35's control layout is surprisingly similar to an Airbus airliner, at least in terms of where the control column (well, stick really) is positioned: directly under the pilot's right hand. The throttle sits on the left-hand side of the cockpit. Both are festooned in knobs, rocker switches, buttons and triggers – to the point where your correspondent wasn't entirely sure how to hold the control column without accidentally bombing the USS America, the target landing ship.
The F-35 simulator cockpit, pilot's view. The instrument display is a single touchscreen unit which is fully customisable to the pilot's preferences – they can even resize and expand windows, something unheard of on military aircraft
As for the landing itself? Andy leaned over: "Put your vector on the back of the boat... that's it." The F-35's systems lock onto its home aircraft carrier and puts a little green circle around the spot on the deck to land on – something that would be very useful in a) finding the ship from long distances and b) actually landing. The pilot's heads-up display (HUD) includes a moving vector symbol that tracks where the aircraft is actually going at any given point. To land, you simply move the jet to put that vector on top of the landing spot circle (after making sure you're approaching from the carrier's stern and not about to fly into the island, or something equally clottish).
Then comes the real magic. Andy leaned in again and pressed a button on the throttle. "That's the lazy button. You can either manage the aircraft's thrust yourself or let the computers do it for you." Even as my mind boggled at this, Andy continued: "There's another one on the stick. If you're coming back after a sortie and decide 'I can't really be bothered' you can let the aircraft fly itself down."
I laughed. "What's the catch?" Andy laughed too. "It's cruise control on steroids."
RAF F-35B ZM137, visiting the UK in 2016. Crown copyright
And there it was. The F-35 can precisely manage its own speed on landing and even fly itself in while you sit back and enjoy the view. This isn't your airliner autothrottle/ILS combo either: the jet is capable of almost seamlessly managing the transition from horizontal to vertical flight entirely on its own before gently settling itself on deck. If you weren't paying attention you'd miss it completely, other than for the F-35 slowing to a speed that would make a conventional fixed-wing aircraft fall out of the sky.
For the landing itself, Andy once again reached in and tapped some buttons on the throttle. "I can increment or decrement your closing speed," he said, dialling up and down the F-35's speed relative to the carrier. There's no tricky mental maths as you reconcile off your own airspeed against the windspeed over the ship's deck: the F-35 does that for you, displays the closing speed on the HUD, and then gives you the luxury of pressing a button to precisely adjust that speed. You could literally sit there and take photos, it's cheating at aviation.
After we landed (and landed again – I didn't quite get the nose down so it quietly wandered back into the sky while we chatted), taking off was as simple as cracking the throttle and pulling back on the stick. The F-35 rose vertically, started flying forwards and Andy then tapped the "vertical fan on/off" button once the airspeed rose: "It's as simple as that."
I then tried some actual flying. Aileron rolls were just as you'd expect from a state-of-the-art fighter jet but the F-35 was noticeably sluggish in pitch, to the point where, while trying to recover from a botched approach that was far too high, fast and steep, I "entered submarine mode", in Andy's words – a result that surprised me from ~400ft at 210kts, around 30-40 degrees nose down. Granted, it's a beyond-visual-range air superiority fighter, not a prop-driven chugalug, but then again I'm just a bloke who likes aeroplanes.
All in all, the F-35 is dead easy to fly and the high level of automation in its systems mean the pilot has more than enough spare mental capacity on hand to focus on operating its sensors and weapons instead of basic aviating. It will certainly be a leap ahead in aviation terms, and might even make the price per aircraft worthwhile. ®
https://www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2018/01/18/f35_uk_test_pilot_interview_sim_flight/
F-35 'incomparable' to Harrier jump jet, top test pilot tells El Reg
Naturally we demanded proof – and we got it
By Gareth Corfield
18th January 2018 15:27 GMT
172 SHARE ▼
Interview What's it like to fly an F-35 fighter jet? We interviewed the chief British test pilot about a uniquely British flying technique – and then had a play with a full cockpit simulator to find out for ourselves.
Squadron Leader Andy Edgell is the Royal Air Force's top test pilot for the F-35 flight trials programme. A former Harrier pilot with sea time on two of the UK's previous aircraft carriers, Her Majesty's Ships Ark Royal and Illustrious, as well as operational deployments to Kandahar, Afghanistan, he is now based at the US Navy's test base at Patuxent River. He spoke to The Register in London yesterday at an F-35 press event.
In his view the F-35 and the Harrier, despite broadly doing the same thing (landing vertically) are "almost incomparable" in flying terms: "The design principle of the F-35 is 'low effort' while the Harrier is a challenge to fly."
Andy explained: "The human brain has a finite capacity and we don't want to use that on flying... we want to concentrate on being an operator of sensors."
The theory behind the F-35's "sensor fusion" concept is that by putting some of the world's most advanced radars and other sensors on it, and then networking those with other F-35s, the unparalleled situational awareness this gives the pilots makes them a far more formidable fighting unit than other current frontline fighter jets.
But does the high level of automation leave you "vulnerable" to the aircraft's whims while the pilot pores over his screens, we wondered? "You are in charge, if you choose to use it. Additional automation is there too – height, speed, heading hold. If you need to be hands-on with the throttle and stick, that's available. If you had a dynamic flight, you can dial that down."
SRVL – a thoroughly British bit of innovation
Andy also talked about the "uniquely British" manoeuvre that the UK team at Pax River developed, the shipborne rolling vertical landing (SRVL). For a jet fighter like the Harrier or the F-35, the normal landing technique on an aircraft carrier is to fly over the designated spot, hover and gently set down. But, as Andy explained, this reduces the amount of what he described as "Bernoulli lift" generated by the aircraft's wings. With less lift available, you reduce the maximum landing weight (too heavy and you break the undercarriage during the thump of touchdown) – and therefore the pilot may have to jettison expensive missiles and fuel to bring the aircraft back within safe vertical landing limits.
With the SRVL technique, however, the pilot combines the vertical landing and a traditional horizontal landing like you'd see at an airport. By doing this the amount of Bernoulli lift available is increased – and, in naval aviation terms, the number of unused missiles that can be brought home to fight again with is increased.
"It's a 35-knot overtaking speed at a seven-degree angle relative to the boat," Andy said. "You're literally coming down at the perfect speed and the perfect angle. This is British, utterly British," he enthused. "Everything we've done with the VAAC Harrier at places like Boscombe [Down, home of British military aviation research], stuff with modelling on how aircraft flies, it's brilliant."
"The VAAC Harrier developed this years ago, with landings on [French aircraft carrier] Charles de Gaulle and the principles behind it were invented by the British," said Andy. The VAAC (Vectored thrust Advanced Aircraft Control) system, developed over the 1980s and 1990s by the British aeronautical industry, was eventually incorporated in the production F-35B, as is being flown by the RAF, the Royal Navy, the US Marines and Italy.
That theme of automation also plays into the training for operating the F-35. According to both Andy and BAE Systems, the biggest sub-contractor on the F-35 project, around 3,000 hours of test flying have been completed on the full-motion simulator at BAE's Warton plant. Faith in the fidelity of the simulators is critical for the "flight" trials taking place in the UK, which includes both test flying and the training of landing signals officers (LSOs), who are F-35 pilots tasked with talking their comrades safely down to the deck. The simulators for both are linked, meaning the trainee pilot and trainee LSO can interact.
Andy praised the dedication of the BAE team working on the trials, joking: "Every time I see them I'll say, how's the marriage going?"
We've heard enough about it, let's take it for a spin
The F-35 full cockpit simulator at the press event had been set up in London, as part of Lockheed Martin and the Ministry of Defence's efforts to tell the Great British Public that the heart-stoppingly expensive "fifth generation" aircraft really is worth its £100m-ish price tag.
The full cockpit simulator at BAE Warton. Ours was mostly similar
As part of this, your correspondent was cordially invited to have a go at landing the jet on an aircraft carrier. Frankly, it was so easy anyone could do it after being told which three buttons to press.
The F-35's control layout is surprisingly similar to an Airbus airliner, at least in terms of where the control column (well, stick really) is positioned: directly under the pilot's right hand. The throttle sits on the left-hand side of the cockpit. Both are festooned in knobs, rocker switches, buttons and triggers – to the point where your correspondent wasn't entirely sure how to hold the control column without accidentally bombing the USS America, the target landing ship.
The F-35 simulator cockpit, pilot's view. The instrument display is a single touchscreen unit which is fully customisable to the pilot's preferences – they can even resize and expand windows, something unheard of on military aircraft
As for the landing itself? Andy leaned over: "Put your vector on the back of the boat... that's it." The F-35's systems lock onto its home aircraft carrier and puts a little green circle around the spot on the deck to land on – something that would be very useful in a) finding the ship from long distances and b) actually landing. The pilot's heads-up display (HUD) includes a moving vector symbol that tracks where the aircraft is actually going at any given point. To land, you simply move the jet to put that vector on top of the landing spot circle (after making sure you're approaching from the carrier's stern and not about to fly into the island, or something equally clottish).
Then comes the real magic. Andy leaned in again and pressed a button on the throttle. "That's the lazy button. You can either manage the aircraft's thrust yourself or let the computers do it for you." Even as my mind boggled at this, Andy continued: "There's another one on the stick. If you're coming back after a sortie and decide 'I can't really be bothered' you can let the aircraft fly itself down."
I laughed. "What's the catch?" Andy laughed too. "It's cruise control on steroids."
RAF F-35B ZM137, visiting the UK in 2016. Crown copyright
And there it was. The F-35 can precisely manage its own speed on landing and even fly itself in while you sit back and enjoy the view. This isn't your airliner autothrottle/ILS combo either: the jet is capable of almost seamlessly managing the transition from horizontal to vertical flight entirely on its own before gently settling itself on deck. If you weren't paying attention you'd miss it completely, other than for the F-35 slowing to a speed that would make a conventional fixed-wing aircraft fall out of the sky.
For the landing itself, Andy once again reached in and tapped some buttons on the throttle. "I can increment or decrement your closing speed," he said, dialling up and down the F-35's speed relative to the carrier. There's no tricky mental maths as you reconcile off your own airspeed against the windspeed over the ship's deck: the F-35 does that for you, displays the closing speed on the HUD, and then gives you the luxury of pressing a button to precisely adjust that speed. You could literally sit there and take photos, it's cheating at aviation.
After we landed (and landed again – I didn't quite get the nose down so it quietly wandered back into the sky while we chatted), taking off was as simple as cracking the throttle and pulling back on the stick. The F-35 rose vertically, started flying forwards and Andy then tapped the "vertical fan on/off" button once the airspeed rose: "It's as simple as that."
I then tried some actual flying. Aileron rolls were just as you'd expect from a state-of-the-art fighter jet but the F-35 was noticeably sluggish in pitch, to the point where, while trying to recover from a botched approach that was far too high, fast and steep, I "entered submarine mode", in Andy's words – a result that surprised me from ~400ft at 210kts, around 30-40 degrees nose down. Granted, it's a beyond-visual-range air superiority fighter, not a prop-driven chugalug, but then again I'm just a bloke who likes aeroplanes.
All in all, the F-35 is dead easy to fly and the high level of automation in its systems mean the pilot has more than enough spare mental capacity on hand to focus on operating its sensors and weapons instead of basic aviating. It will certainly be a leap ahead in aviation terms, and might even make the price per aircraft worthwhile. ®
vampyrbladez
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What's this???????????????????????????????????
OrientalGamer
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I have no idea why ppl here comparing rafale with f35, ridiculous.
Bhurki
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If you're asking about the underlined part, then thats just him failing the simulator landing and crashing into the sea at high speed aka 'submarine'
This is the awesome part.
abhay rajput
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Come on guys stay on topic...
...........
...........
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Oups, you are right, I forgot Stealth.
Israeli's top ranked said it will vanished in less than 10 years, with the new low bands radar to come....
F35 stealth is usefull only the very first days of a war, the time to destroy Command HQ, SAM, ... After that it's a goose.
To destroy HQ and SAM, cruise missiles and drones are more than enough. Result : the fighter you use remains a perfect tool, not limited by the bays only usefull for these very few days.
It's a very different approach.
Where all the customer F35 made a huge error is that F35 was studied for US forces, with F22, F15 to cover its ass. It will never be the case of Belgium, or Netherlands or....
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One japanese pilot tried the submarine mode....
Lack of success.
Bhurki
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I've warned you earlier about this, but i guess its your nature.
Sitting on your comfort chair, you have no right to comment on someone who was ready to lay down his life for his country.
JASDF has clearly stated the pilot suffered from spacial disorientation. It could happen to anyone. Besides every F35 after the initial batches have GCAS enabled to prevent this from happening.
What you wrote is just outright disgusting.
I'm not sure what country you are actually affiliated to, but if you had an ounce of respect for defense servicemen, you wouldn't have said this again.
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. .
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But it doesn't just happen to anyone, it only happens regularly to F-35 and F-22 pilots. They try to blame the oxygen system but we all know there is something toxic with that RAM coat.
Bhurki
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Everybody's quite vocal about F22 maintainability issues which can be understood considering the thing was designed 30 years ago.
As far as ram material maintenance is considered, i haven't yet found any bad report on F35. So i do think that issue is resolved.
abhay rajput
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We are not getting f35 , until we surrender ourselves to Americans. Bottom line there is no point in discussing it further.
USA will not provide any tot for any critical thing's. I mean think about it most of the engines in the world are made in USA. Why would they want to lose that monopoly..?
Rafale is as good as f18 block 3 and Rafale definitely can provide much tot then USA. We are progressing in most of the critical fields except aero engines.
USA will not provide any tot for any critical thing's. I mean think about it most of the engines in the world are made in USA. Why would they want to lose that monopoly..?
Rafale is as good as f18 block 3 and Rafale definitely can provide much tot then USA. We are progressing in most of the critical fields except aero engines.
Bhurki
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China is the common adversary to both US and India.
If India has a couple of squadrons of F35 to use 'exclusively' against China and not against Pak, exactly how pak pretends to use F16 against terrorists and not India, then US will have much more incentive to sell it to India, and India will have much more leverage to use the deal against any sanctions without the fear of being denied spare parts etc.
Maybe the Indian diplomats aren't as adept to play the card game as pak diplomats are.
abhay rajput
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We can't win against Chinese. We both have nukes , if any war happen China and India will be both destroyed. We can always make more nukes and missiles, if balance is really changing, There economy is 4 times than... .there best plane j20 still doesn't have any engine. They are now at the same level as of Russia in most of the fields except aero engines, hypersonic weapons, ssbn/ssn . Thats why they have to buy su35 because Russia declined to give al41 engines alone. Most of there fleet is variants of Russian su27/su30. There j10 is a serious threat, especially the ones which have aesa radars, but do not forget Chinese equipments and western equipments have a lot of difference. Rafale will most probably trumps any Chinese plane , except j20 which will be an even match for Rafale ....
Lastly about USA , this is the statement of my father who was an IAS officer and during his last months of services he was posted in MOD , he told me that the USA has been pushing us for not to buy weapons from Russia, not to buy oil from Iran , not do trade with Venezuela and if we try to resist they say buy our weapons or face jeopardizing, that's sorts of blackmail happen in diplomacy .. we can't bend because if we do one time, the next time it will become a norm.. when USA started partnership with us way back , our relationship was based on strategic autonomy that was the word added into most of the deals signed with USA including 2008 nuclear deal. We have older relations with Iran then USA , Iran doesn't sanctions us for many years after 1974 test. Iran oil is best suited oil for our refiniers . They say to stop oil we did it, next they try to did same thing with Venezuela this time we stand our ground, and now they are doing the same thing with Russia - again we have older relationship with them then USA but they still insist on caatsa sanctions. My only point is we can't let USA dictate our foreign policy or which country we can deal with or not. F35 can't stop invasions nukes can
OrientalGamer
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I only believe what I seen in reality, Check out ur own 6th gen design, it is a f22 copycat, if u don’t have money to develop 5 th gen, it is fine, but bashing 5 th gen is ur fault. Top ranked? what a joke, I am a top ranked too.
Last edited:
OrientalGamer
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Ur too scared to accept the truth, no wonder Pakistan can humiliate u. Never forget 1962 when both sides had nuke, now the gap is much bigger.
OrientalGamer
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Ur too scared to accept the truth, no wonder Pakistan can humiliate u last year. Never forget 1962 when both sides had nuke, now the gap is much bigger.
Aghore_King
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Skirmish with porkis lasted only 90 secs,with them losing an f 16, if you call that humiliation, then Chinese indeed deserve another century of humiliation for their mental retardness.
OrientalGamer
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Indeed you lost more than Pakistan. don’t talk shit, everybody knows we are not in the same league.
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