Kaveri Engine

[Vijyes]

Kaveri weight is 1250kgs almost 350+kg more

Who says so? This was in 2013 when the engine was a failure and would not work. DRDO website states the TWR to be 7.8 which mkes it similar to F404 and hence similar weight too.

 

[Vijyes]

We are not going to degrade performance of our prime asset. It's too costly to do such a thing.
Also rafale will need all the thrust it can for further upgrade mid life. A heavier engine will make mid life upgrade much more difficult.

Another possibility is if French cooperation can help reduce Kaveri weight to 900-950 kg with 76kn thrust then maybe your idea could be feasible.
But still installing a new engine will require 5-6 years of rigourous testing. We don't have time for that with rafale.

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As I said before, Rhenium is a big issue and without rhenium, M88 won't be light weight. So, it is futile to even think of light weight engine. We have to accept the fact that rhenium is not available is India in good quantity. Even with French help, India can't make high TWR engine as rhenium is not available.

Next, Kaveri may be 150 kg heavier than M88 but it also has slightly higher thrust of 81kN which compensates for it. Rafale has been fitted with F404 in 1990s for testing (M88 was not ready then) and hence the airframe of Rafale can hold 150kg heavier engine. So, with no other modifications, the empty weight of plane will only increase by 300kg (2 engines) from current 10+ tons. This is barely 3% increase in weight and negligible. This will also have negative effect on range but here again it is about 5% and hence negligible.

 

[airtel]

Kaveri will be used instead of M88 in Rafale

please provide any credible source or it is just your imagination /wish ??

 

[shiphone]

M88 is 900 kg while Kaveri is similar to F404 (1040kg for 81kN thrust). The small difference in engine weight can be ignored for 2 reason:

1. M88 has rhenium which is very rare and difficult to obtain in case needed for urgent mass manufacturing
2. Indigenisation and its benefits far outweigh some performance degradation

oh,dear... don't BxxxSxxx...

the key material applied on M88-2's hot section is AM1 and N-18 superalloy...they are nickel base(Ni）alloy...

you may have a rethinking of the time when M88 was developed

 

[Kchontha]

This gives a lot of ideas about the material use in a jet engine..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAMegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw0eLSErl6dn9H-_k3xPtLcD

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[Kchontha]

And this gives a lot of ideas about m88 turbofan material used.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2QtBqXzGXn3vDb_3ln84Xp

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[Kchontha]

This explain the basics of the jet engine.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw3NIX0b01iQBwSv4ymftaJL&cshid=1558963297044

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[Kchontha]

This explains the further development of Kaveri engibe.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3K3rs2g5LMELJIuWu8mDPd
Another development is the 3d printing technology in india. Further it looks like dmrl has done it in respect of single Cristal blade.

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[Kchontha]

It is the right time to start variable cycle engine for 6th gen fighter. Nobody will give you the technology. You have to develop it yourself. So why don't we start work on the similar line like the link given below
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...DhAR&usg=AOvVaw1B436yD7hHC0eb5-SEh7rG&ampcf=1

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[kunal1123]

Indian Air Force Jet LCA Tejas May Soon Get Made In India Engine Kaveri As GTRE Revives Program With Snecma
by Swarajya Staff - Jun 21 2019, 2:06 pm,

LCA Tejas
Various jets and helicopters part of Indian Air Force’s arsenal and especially the LCA Tejas may soon get Made In India Aero Gas Turbine Engines as GTRE scientists have revived the program with the help of French aircraft engine manufacturer Snecma, IANS has reported.

This comes at a time when various scientists and defence experts have urged indigenisation in this regard for self reliance in defence engine manufacturing.

During a defence event in Bengaluru on Thursday (21 June), aerospace scientists and defence experts stressed on the need for the government and the industry to jointly design and manufacture aero gas turbine engines for both military and civilian aircraft.

An effort to this regard was pioneered by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) under DRDO’s guidance to develop an aero gas turbine engine for the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

The engine named Kaveri, which was subsequently developed, was tested in both ground and air but could not be inducted due to low thrust and high weight. Thus, the LCA Tejas aircraft are now fitted with US made General Electric engines.

 

[Vijyes]

Indian Air Force Jet LCA Tejas May Soon Get Made In India Engine Kaveri As GTRE Revives Program With Snecma
by Swarajya Staff - Jun 21 2019, 2:06 pm,

LCA Tejas
Various jets and helicopters part of Indian Air Force’s arsenal and especially the LCA Tejas may soon get Made In India Aero Gas Turbine Engines as GTRE scientists have revived the program with the help of French aircraft engine manufacturer Snecma, IANS has reported.

This comes at a time when various scientists and defence experts have urged indigenisation in this regard for self reliance in defence engine manufacturing.

During a defence event in Bengaluru on Thursday (21 June), aerospace scientists and defence experts stressed on the need for the government and the industry to jointly design and manufacture aero gas turbine engines for both military and civilian aircraft.

An effort to this regard was pioneered by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) under DRDO’s guidance to develop an aero gas turbine engine for the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

The engine named Kaveri, which was subsequently developed, was tested in both ground and air but could not be inducted due to low thrust and high weight. Thus, the LCA Tejas aircraft are now fitted with US made General Electric engines.

What is Snecma contributing? I can't understand why these people spread half news. Kaveri was already partially certified and stated to be fit for trials.

 

[Armand2REP]

Various jets and helicopters part of Indian Air Force’s arsenal and especially the LCA Tejas may soon get Made In India Aero Gas Turbine Engines as GTRE scientists have revived the program with the help of French aircraft engine manufacturer Snecma, IANS has reported.

It is fake news... it is just a workshop talking about reviving Kaveri by a bunch of retired people out of the loop.

 

[Kchontha]

Item 30 is a possibility......

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[no smoking]

What is Snecma contributing? I can't understand why these people spread half news. Kaveri was already partially certified and stated to be fit for trials.

Just in Aug 18, GTRE required tenders of high altitude test facility to send their proposal of Kaveri testing. This tells us that Kaveri just finished its ground test, and haven't start the high altitude tests which are far more critical than ground test (the main design issue will be revealed in this stage). You have to wait another 2-3 years (if everything goes smoothly) before fit it in the jet for trial.

 

[Vijyes]

Just in Aug 18, GTRE required tenders of high altitude test facility to send their proposal of Kaveri testing. This tells us that Kaveri just finished its ground test, and haven't start the high altitude tests which are far more critical than ground test (the main design issue will be revealed in this stage). You have to wait another 2-3 years (if everything goes smoothly) before fit it in the jet for trial.

France would not certify Kaveri for.limited envelope flight testing without undergoing the high altitude test. It is possible that India did high altitude tests with Snecma of France and now wants indigenous platform to do it without France.

 

[Kchontha]

A lot of speculation has been going on since the separation Kaveri programme from the LCA. Since then Kaveri is shrouded in mystery and secrecy from the part of the designer. However, turbofan development is a strategic matters for a country like india. India has made breakthrough in terms of 3d printing and Cristal blade technology (dmrl). Moreover French is also willing to help (Rafale offset) and Russian help is also a possibility. The question is whether Russian is willing to part with item 30 technology (stalled fgfa deal's fund can be diverted to engine technology). In this context, Kaveri might have crossed all the developmental hurdles and on its way to finishing line. Hope my guess is right. Just trolling hehehe. Sorry to butt in.

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[Armand2REP]

A lot of speculation has been going on since the separation Kaveri programme from the LCA. Since then Kaveri is shrouded in mystery and secrecy from the part of the designer.

When there is no news people tend to speculate. The reason there is no news is not because it is a state secret, there is nothing going on plain and simple. That is why retired members of the programme are holding conferences urging the government to restart it.

 

[no smoking]

France would not certify Kaveri for.limited envelope flight testing without undergoing the high altitude test. It is possible that India did high altitude tests with Snecma of France and now wants indigenous platform to do it without France.

Firstly, there is no indigenous platform in India to do it. Currently India doesn't have such facility within India at all.
Secondly, French did the tech AUDIT, not high altitude tests. The former involves design review, project review, computer simulation, basically a consultancy work at low cost; The latter takes years to finish and cost a fortune. It is pointless for India to re-do it if France already did.

 

[Kchontha]

Dude! No news means they don't have any news to sell, it doesn't mean nothing is happened in Kaveri front and Kaveri being separated from LCA programme also doesn't mean work on Kaveri development has stopped. What can I can say more about it when your logic made you such an illogical conclusion like that.

When there is no news people tend to speculate. The reason there is no news is not because it is a state secret, there is nothing going on plain and simple. That is why retired members of the programme are holding conferences urging the government to restart it.

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