Kaveri Engine

[WolfPack86]

GTRE has issued a tender for 'Expression of Interest for Altitude Tests of Kaveri Engine and its Derivative'.

 

[square]

Will this need a Flying test Bed?

mig29.....
...................
ADA will most probably perform the test...

 

[lcafanboy]

GTRE has issued a tender for 'Expression of Interest for Altitude Tests of Kaveri Engine and its Derivative'.

The above was posted by me on strategic frontier and also here previously...

 

[WolfPack86]

The above was posted by me on strategic frontier and also here previously...

Sorry bro when i saw kaveri update i got over excited i do not know that you already posted it.

 

[tharun]

Please post the link for the eoi for kaveri engine.

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

[tharun]

Our guys are dumb enough to put all the blade designs including blue prints to call tenders for manufacturing blades.

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[Kshithij]

Our guys are dumb enough to put all the blade designs including blue prints to call tenders for manufacturing blades.

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Have they put the manufacturing process also? Blade designs are not something new. USA has supplied F16, F18, F15 etc to many countries like Turkey, Pakistan, Egypt, Arabs etc who would already have sold it to others by now and the engine design would be a common knowledge.

Unless manufacturing process is disclosed, the blade design alone will not make much of a difference. One must not forget that France has already seen Indian engine during testing and consultancy.

 

[darshan978]

Our guys are dumb enough to put all the blade designs including blue prints to call tenders for manufacturing blades.

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what! have they actually done this? really?

 

[BON PLAN]

Our guys are dumb enough to put all the blade designs including blue prints to call tenders for manufacturing blades.

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

The design of a blade is not very sensitive.
The sensitive part is the know how and the industrial equipments to produce it !

In case of a single crystal blade, the metalurgical process is a very hard task. It takes years (not to say dozen years) to master it.

 

[tharun]

The design of a blade is not very sensitive.
The sensitive part is the know how and the industrial equipments to produce it !

In case of a single crystal blade, the metalurgical process is a very hard task. It takes years (not to say dozen years) to master it.

My concern is different.
If they got blade designs and after few months they will declare the tender winner,so people can sniff what that company is using to make that blade.

 

[Kshithij]

My concern is different.
If they got blade designs and after few months they will declare the tender winner,so people can sniff what that company is using to make that blade.

It is well known of the materials used to make the blades. They are all available in research papers. It is the exact process that matters. It is difficult to simply sniff the process of blade making as these critical items are under government control. The companies don't have the control over these items. Also, highly critical things are likely done by Indian PSUs only. There are no private companies who have good metallurgy in India

 

[BON PLAN]

It is well known of the materials used to make the blades. They are all available in research papers. It is the exact process that matters. It is difficult to simply sniff the process of blade making as these critical items are under government control. The companies don't have the control over these items. Also, highly critical things are likely done by Indian PSUs only. There are no private companies who have good metallurgy in India

This is it !

 

[su30mki2017]

Just wondering.... Can we use one of the decommissioned Tu 142 as test bed in similar fashion ?View attachment 24781

Plenty of Boeing and airbus in country, even Ilyushin. but we went to russia for testing kaveri?

India must develop its own flying testbed for testing gas turbine engines

@Babloo Singh @lcafanboy @aditya g @Kshatriya87 @Kshithij

 

[Enquirer]

Plenty of Boeing and airbus in country, even Ilyushin. but we went to russia for testing kaveri?

India must develop its own flying testbed for testing gas turbine engines

@Babloo Singh @lcafanboy @aditya g @Kshatriya87 @Kshithij

Having an aircraft is not enough. The engineers need to know/understand the full design of the aircraft before attempting any changes.
Even a minor mismatch can have fatal consequences!

 

[lcafanboy]

Having an aircraft is not enough. The engineers need to know/understand the full design of the aircraft before attempting any changes.
Even a minor mismatch can have fatal consequences!

Very true. But a 4 engine commercial airline planes like Boeing 747 can easily be converted into test bed as it can fly with even 2 engines working and one of the 4 engine bay can be designed to accommodate various types of aero engines with instruments on board. Further a couple of MIG 29s also especially twin seater can also be converted easily for advance fighter test bed as it can fly with single engine and instruments can be carried on board by removing second seat. These are achievable for HAL as they are fully aware of mig29 design and Boeing is very much easier to convert.

The only issue preventing this is money and lack of vision.... Our successive governments was is penny wise and pound foolish. They would not release funds for test bed but spend a fortune on consultancies only to be told that Kaveri engine is ready to fly but would need test bed which they can provide for a loot....

 

[Enquirer]

Very true. But a 4 engine commercial airline planes like Boeing 747 can easily be converted into test bed as it can fly with even 2 engines working and one of the 4 engine bay can be designed to accommodate various types of aero engines with instruments on board. Further a couple of MIG 29s also especially twin seater can also be converted easily for advance fighter test bed as it can fly with single engine and instruments can be carried on board by removing second seat. These are achievable for HAL as they are fully aware of mig29 design and Boeing is very much easier to convert.

The only issue preventing this is money and lack of vision.... Our successive governments was is penny wise and pound foolish. They would not release funds for test bed but spend a fortune on consultancies only to be told that Kaveri engine is ready to fly but would need test bed which they can provide for a loot....

Yes, Mig29 or a Su30MKI would be ideal candidates for test - as HAL has expertise with these platforms.
(I am surprised that ADA folks have announced that Kaveri will be flown on Tejas next year, even without any announcement about its test/integration with Mig29 or Su30MKI)

Boeing will charge an arm and a leg to do any modifications of its platforms.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Very true. But a 4 engine commercial airline planes like Boeing 747 can easily be converted into test bed as it can fly with even 2 engines working and one of the 4 engine bay can be designed to accommodate various types of aero engines with instruments on board. Further a couple of MIG 29s also especially twin seater can also be converted easily for advance fighter test bed as it can fly with single engine and instruments can be carried on board by removing second seat. These are achievable for HAL as they are fully aware of mig29 design and Boeing is very much easier to convert.

The only issue preventing this is money and lack of vision.... Our successive governments was is penny wise and pound foolish. They would not release funds for test bed but spend a fortune on consultancies only to be told that Kaveri engine is ready to fly but would need test bed which they can provide for a loot....

That is where France deal comes in. We are most likely getting a test bed and auditing from France. Also, the testing at altitude can be done by keeping the engine in Leh and running it. It will give a good sense of 12000 feet. Then it can be tested on flight with Snecma's assistance to get things done quickly. Paying a few million dollars for test bed rent is not a big deal in the overall picture. Money is not a restraint. Moreover, there has been no news about flying test bed. I would not say that India does not have one without source.

 

[lcafanboy]

That is where France deal comes in. We are most likely getting a test bed and auditing from France. Also, the testing at altitude can be done by keeping the engine in Leh and running it. It will give a good sense of 12000 feet. Then it can be tested on flight with Snecma's assistance to get things done quickly. Paying a few million dollars for test bed rent is not a big deal in the overall picture. Money is not a restraint. Moreover, there has been no news about flying test bed. I would not say that India does not have one without source.

That's exactly what is being done. French were supposed to test fly and certify Kaveri engine this year itself and integration to LCA 2019. Modi government split mmrca deal into milestones first deal for 36 Rafales to test if they deliver jet engine technology as offset once they deliver another 36 Rafales deal will be signed. This has to done before elections to prove rafale deal is not expensive as next lot of 36 will be assembled in India at very low price as all offset cost, factory set up cost and base cost has been done in first deal. This will take air out of opposition propoganda that Rafale deal had kick back and so is expensive...

 

[su30mki2017]

AFAIK Ghatak is the definitive powerplant of the ADA's yet to be produced aura/UCAV which is a version of Kaveri without its afterburner. Former MOD had also referred to the same engine in the parliament while replying to a query. But some members are using the term Ghatak as synonymous with aura/UCAV. It is quite confusing.

Modified kaveri engine for AURA/GHATAK in development

intake after CFD analysis

 

[WolfPack86]

Kaveri Engine soon to head for High-Altitude Tests

Gas Turbine Research Establishment (G T R E) is preparing to test its Kaveri Engine in High-Altitude Test mode after French Aerospace engine maker Safran has cleared technical audit. G T R E has recently requested to the High-Altitude Test Facilities to send their proposals which can provide their facilities to test Kaveri engine.

The Kaveri project – which was abandoned in 2014 as it did not meet the power requirements of the Air Force – is being revived with French help for use on both the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and a new unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) project.

Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV.

In High-Altitude Test Facilities, Experimental engines are allowed to testing in a test cell where altitude and speed conditions can be simulated. High-Altitude Test Facilities usually are capable to simulate Mach 2 to 3 speeds and up to 75000 feet altitudes to testing experimental engines. Safran carried out a technical audit on the Kaveri engine development and submitted a report.

According to the report submitted, it was stated that the Kaveri engine has attained sufficient level of maturity for carrying out a limited envelope flight test integrated with an aircraft.

In 2017, Kaveri engine was tested for 155 hours in endurance mode and performance came out very well and after analyzing the data of the test collected by Safran cleared the engine.

D R D O and Safran plan to start integration work by end of 2018 or early 2019 and major ground trials with Kaveri engine will be scheduled for major part of 2019 before its first flight by 2020.

It is also planned to use an upgraded version of Kaveri to meet the needs of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)

This implies that the Kaveri turbofan should be upgraded to generate 110-kN wet and 75-kN dry thrust. But then an engine of this capability will need to incorporate single crystal blade technology, integrated rotor disk and blades and super alloys of nickel and cobalt. Kaveri engine in its present form uses directionally solidified blade technology which is rather an old hat. The 20-tonne class AMCA designed for stealth features and super cruise capability is planned to be powered by two GTX Kaveri engines. Significantly, the Kaveri engine has been custom built to operate in the demanding Indian environment that ranges from the hot desert to the freezing mountain heights.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal
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