Kashmir Fateh Thread August 2019

Status
Not open for further replies.

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,919
Likes
98,471
Country flag
Cold Start doctrine and integrated battle groups

Gurmeet Kanwal
Ex-Director, Centre for Land Warfare Studies

AN exercise has been underway for over a year to make the Army a more efficient fighting force that can fight and win on tomorrow’s battlefields if deterrence fails. It was reported in early September that the Army is in the process of raising 11 to 13 integrated battle groups (IBGs) for offensive operations across the western border.

The Army’s offensive operations doctrine for the plains, prior to Operation Parakram (2001-03), was to employ the massive combat power of its three strike corps to advance deep into Pakistani territory to capture strategic objectives, and to quickly bring to battle and destroy Pakistan’s Army Reserve (North) and Army Reserve (South), so as to substantially degrade its war machinery.
This concept was evolved in 1981-82 and tested in Exercise Digvijay when General KV Krishna Rao was the Army chief. It was further refined during

Exercise Brasstacks in 1987 by General K Sundarji as the Army chief, and accepted as the doctrine for offensive operations in the plains. After India’s nuclear tests of May 1998, there were several attempts to refine the Army’s doctrine so that it was suitable for offensive operations in a nuclear environment.
The Army’s new concept of offensive operations is a combination of ‘cold start’ — the ability to launch quick strikes across the International Border (IB) without prior warning by moving rapidly to battle positions from the cantonments — and the employment of ‘integrated battle groups’. IBGs are offensive forces usually formed at divisional level to penetrate across the IB over a wide front but not necessarily strike too deeply. The new doctrine is in marked contrast to the old concept of launching massive strike corps operations for deep hits across the IB since such operations may threaten Pakistan’s nuclear red-lines as its nuclear threshold is perceived by many analysts the world over to be low. Other analysts, including this writer, believe that Pakistan’s nuclear bluff can be called.

For this reason, the achievement of the military aim in the next war in the plains, while ensuring that operations do not escalate to nuclear exchanges, will pose a unique challenge.

The need to be able to mobilise quickly (cold start) and launch multi-pronged but ‘shallow’ offensive operations across the border into Pakistan, as well as the need to mass firepower rather than forces when planning to fight in a nuclear environment, prompted the need for some fresh thinking about force structures for offensive operations. Because of their massive size, the present strike corps are difficult to concentrate, side-step, deploy and manoeuvre. These limitations virtually rule out the achievement of surprise and deception. During Operation Parakram, the strike corps had taken too long to mobilise.

Inevitably, the question was asked: If the Indian strike corps are going to be employed only to achieve small, operational or even tactical-level gains, why have them at all? It was clear that in the coming decades, Indian military genius will lie in finding a suitable via media for launching meaningful offensive operations as well as maintaining strong countervailing forces.

If a fleeting opportunity is to be exploited, the strike formations must be capable of launching an offensive operation from a cold start. Within 72 to 96 hours of the issue of the order for full-scale mobilisation, three to five division-size “battle groups” must cross the IB straight from the line of march. They should be launching their break-in operations and crossing the “start line” even as the holding (defensive) divisions are completing their deployment on the forward obstacles. Only such simultaneity of operations will unhinge the enemy and paralyse him into making mistakes from which he will not be able to recover.

An option that the Army had reportedly considered was to split the three strike corps into several division-size, integrated ‘battle groups’ of the size and capability of Russia’s famed operational manoeuvre groups (OMGs), that were designed to be launched after a ‘break-in’ had been effected. While one ‘battle group’ each could be allotted to the ground-holding (pivot) corps for providing an offensive punch to them, the others will need to be so structured that they are capable of independent action as well as capable of being deployed concentrate. These would be designated as theatre and Army Headquarters reserves.

Each IBG will need to be specifically structured to achieve designated objectives in the terrain in which it is expected to be launched and yet be flexible enough for two or more of them to fight under a corps headquarter to bring to bear the combined weight of their combat power on a common military objective deep inside the enemy territory. Hence, the strike corps headquarter must be capable of taking under command IBGs at short notice to achieve the laid down military objectives.

The ‘pivot’ or ground-holding corps have been provided significant offensive capability now integral to them. According to a former COAS, “They have been assigned roles, which are offensive as well as defensive…The decision-making has been left to theatre commanders, depending on their assessment and evaluation of the situation.”

Several exercises designed to test the Army’s new concept for offensive operations in the plains were held following Operation Parakaram. These included Poorna Vijay (2001), Vijay Chakra, Divya Astra, Vajra Shakti (May 2005), Desert Strike (November 2005) and Sanghe Shakti (May 2006). All of these were aimed at concentrating and coordinating firepower and fine-tuning the Army-Air Force joint operations premised on operations in a nuclear environment.

Only innovative measures of this type will lead to success in short and sharp future Indo-Pak conflicts that may spill over to the plains. The art of generalship will lie in achieving military aims quickly without crossing Pakistan’s nuclear threshold, before the international community blows the whistle for a ceasefire.


https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/c...rine-and-integrated-battle-groups/835171.html
 

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,485
Likes
23,358
Country flag
Hahahahahahahaha

Another FAILURE of pakistan:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Pakistan fails to prove claim of 58 nations’ support on Jammu & Kashmir
NEW DELHI: Pakistan has failed to prove its September 10 claim in the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) session that it has support of 58 countries on the Kashmir issue. According to rules, Pakistan had to submit the signed list of 58 countries by a certain period in support of its claim.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/pakistan-fails-to-prove-claim-of-58-nations-support-on-jammu-kashmir/articleshow/71228075.cms?utm_source=twitter_web&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons


PATHOLOGICAL LIARS...pakistan...and lying shamelessly at UN..in front of the whole world.
Papa ka nakli sign kar ke jama nahi kar sakte?
Saare 58 papaon ka?
BTW, ye kuch Emran Hashmi ka Balochistan pe aa raha hai netflix pe. Can't we use bollywood to glorify secessionists in Pakistan? Would boost their recruitment numbers for sure.
What good is soft power if it cannot be used for power?

Here it is. Isme toh RAW waale ko pele hue hain but you take out a few things, throw in a few more and this could affect the demography there. Khuda na khasta, Pakistani Bihar pe kuch aisa banayein, I'd be at least a bit interested to see what it is.

Do you have any idea how Gangaajal affected the elections around the time it was released here?
Saala pura Bihar pavitter ho jaata.
 

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,370
Cold Start doctrine and integrated battle groups

Gurmeet Kanwal
Ex-Director, Centre for Land Warfare Studies

AN exercise has been underway for over a year to make the Army a more efficient fighting force that can fight and win on tomorrow’s battlefields if deterrence fails. It was reported in early September that the Army is in the process of raising 11 to 13 integrated battle groups (IBGs) for offensive operations across the western border.

The Army’s offensive operations doctrine for the plains, prior to Operation Parakram (2001-03), was to employ the massive combat power of its three strike corps to advance deep into Pakistani territory to capture strategic objectives, and to quickly bring to battle and destroy Pakistan’s Army Reserve (North) and Army Reserve (South), so as to substantially degrade its war machinery.
This concept was evolved in 1981-82 and tested in Exercise Digvijay when General KV Krishna Rao was the Army chief. It was further refined during

Exercise Brasstacks in 1987 by General K Sundarji as the Army chief, and accepted as the doctrine for offensive operations in the plains. After India’s nuclear tests of May 1998, there were several attempts to refine the Army’s doctrine so that it was suitable for offensive operations in a nuclear environment.
The Army’s new concept of offensive operations is a combination of ‘cold start’ — the ability to launch quick strikes across the International Border (IB) without prior warning by moving rapidly to battle positions from the cantonments — and the employment of ‘integrated battle groups’. IBGs are offensive forces usually formed at divisional level to penetrate across the IB over a wide front but not necessarily strike too deeply. The new doctrine is in marked contrast to the old concept of launching massive strike corps operations for deep hits across the IB since such operations may threaten Pakistan’s nuclear red-lines as its nuclear threshold is perceived by many analysts the world over to be low. Other analysts, including this writer, believe that Pakistan’s nuclear bluff can be called.

For this reason, the achievement of the military aim in the next war in the plains, while ensuring that operations do not escalate to nuclear exchanges, will pose a unique challenge.

The need to be able to mobilise quickly (cold start) and launch multi-pronged but ‘shallow’ offensive operations across the border into Pakistan, as well as the need to mass firepower rather than forces when planning to fight in a nuclear environment, prompted the need for some fresh thinking about force structures for offensive operations. Because of their massive size, the present strike corps are difficult to concentrate, side-step, deploy and manoeuvre. These limitations virtually rule out the achievement of surprise and deception. During Operation Parakram, the strike corps had taken too long to mobilise.

Inevitably, the question was asked: If the Indian strike corps are going to be employed only to achieve small, operational or even tactical-level gains, why have them at all? It was clear that in the coming decades, Indian military genius will lie in finding a suitable via media for launching meaningful offensive operations as well as maintaining strong countervailing forces.

If a fleeting opportunity is to be exploited, the strike formations must be capable of launching an offensive operation from a cold start. Within 72 to 96 hours of the issue of the order for full-scale mobilisation, three to five division-size “battle groups” must cross the IB straight from the line of march. They should be launching their break-in operations and crossing the “start line” even as the holding (defensive) divisions are completing their deployment on the forward obstacles. Only such simultaneity of operations will unhinge the enemy and paralyse him into making mistakes from which he will not be able to recover.

An option that the Army had reportedly considered was to split the three strike corps into several division-size, integrated ‘battle groups’ of the size and capability of Russia’s famed operational manoeuvre groups (OMGs), that were designed to be launched after a ‘break-in’ had been effected. While one ‘battle group’ each could be allotted to the ground-holding (pivot) corps for providing an offensive punch to them, the others will need to be so structured that they are capable of independent action as well as capable of being deployed concentrate. These would be designated as theatre and Army Headquarters reserves.

Each IBG will need to be specifically structured to achieve designated objectives in the terrain in which it is expected to be launched and yet be flexible enough for two or more of them to fight under a corps headquarter to bring to bear the combined weight of their combat power on a common military objective deep inside the enemy territory. Hence, the strike corps headquarter must be capable of taking under command IBGs at short notice to achieve the laid down military objectives.

The ‘pivot’ or ground-holding corps have been provided significant offensive capability now integral to them. According to a former COAS, “They have been assigned roles, which are offensive as well as defensive…The decision-making has been left to theatre commanders, depending on their assessment and evaluation of the situation.”

Several exercises designed to test the Army’s new concept for offensive operations in the plains were held following Operation Parakaram. These included Poorna Vijay (2001), Vijay Chakra, Divya Astra, Vajra Shakti (May 2005), Desert Strike (November 2005) and Sanghe Shakti (May 2006). All of these were aimed at concentrating and coordinating firepower and fine-tuning the Army-Air Force joint operations premised on operations in a nuclear environment.

Only innovative measures of this type will lead to success in short and sharp future Indo-Pak conflicts that may spill over to the plains. The art of generalship will lie in achieving military aims quickly without crossing Pakistan’s nuclear threshold, before the international community blows the whistle for a ceasefire.


https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/c...rine-and-integrated-battle-groups/835171.html


Finally, something to calm the nerves.

I have been saying for the last 5-6 years that Cold Start doesn't make sense if not backed by strike level mobilization. People kept talking about IBG's in isolation because they couldn't address the question on the nuclear threshold.

There were 2 extremes, one wanted to call the nuclear bluff out and another wanted to play below it. The actuation is to calibrate the threat with a faster build-up to complement IBG's already doing break -in operations not sitting ideal and expecting IBG's fulfil all the military objectives.

It is imperative we look more damaging because threshold may breach lower and faster than expected. Looking weaker by playing below it can encourage Pakistan to lower it further.
 

Aaj ka hero

Has left
Banned
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
1,872
Likes
4,532
Country flag
Hahahahahahahaha

Another FAILURE of pakistan:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Pakistan fails to prove claim of 58 nations’ support on Jammu & Kashmir
NEW DELHI: Pakistan has failed to prove its September 10 claim in the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) session that it has support of 58 countries on the Kashmir issue. According to rules, Pakistan had to submit the signed list of 58 countries by a certain period in support of its claim.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/pakistan-fails-to-prove-claim-of-58-nations-support-on-jammu-kashmir/articleshow/71228075.cms?utm_source=twitter_web&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons


PATHOLOGICAL LIARS...pakistan...and lying shamelessly at UN..in front of the whole world.
Post this on mig-21 thread that @Sayaaf is saying too much.
Don't know why we entertain these people who don't want to accept their country is born liar.
 

Yash Patel

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
124
Likes
707
Country flag
Rajasthan: Section 144 has been imposed in the area lying within the range of 2 km of Sriganganagar-Pakistan international border. The order has been issued by District Collector Shiv Prasad Nakate. This order will remain effective from 7 pm to 7 am, till 15 November 2019.


 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
Finally, something to calm the nerves.

I have been saying for the last 5-6 years that Cold Start doesn't make sense if not backed by strike level mobilization. People kept talking about IBG's in isolation because they couldn't address the question on the nuclear threshold.

There were 2 extremes, one wanted to call the nuclear bluff out and another wanted to play below it. The actuation is to calibrate the threat with a faster build-up to complement IBG's already doing break -in operations not sitting ideal and expecting IBG's fulfil all the military objectives.

It is imperative we look more damaging because threshold may breach lower and faster than expected. Looking weaker by playing below it can encourage Pakistan to lower it further.
Well, can you keep the nukes aside for a while.

Now , the correlation between strike Corps and IBG.
IBG is an option to be exercised at the word "Go". Strike Corps at the word "Go" plus ten days.
Now what does one do between "Go" and "Go plus ten days". The answer is IBG. IBG does not supercede Strike Corps. The war may stop before it has started but that strategic community must insist that even under such a scenario Pakistan must be made to pay "militarily" and not by Lahori Biryani. Unlike in the past (1947, 1965, 1971, 1999 etc ) some neta or Babu should not be able to loose everything before it started. IBG is the answer to all those problems.

Now come to nukes :

How below is the below ? Then belowest is terrorists exploding a bomb in Delhi when talks between the diplomates of the two countries are going on in Simla. Tell me a military and nuclear or strategic solution to that. Even if that the solution lies in IBG.

If one thinks situation is so bad then India will have to go for massive preemptive strike and nothing below or short of that - dictates the logic of nuclear war fighting.. Some recent utterances are in that right direction.

Any one who is actively thinking and propagating against IBG has only one purpose - Not to allow the initiative pass to Armed Forces but ratian it with those who can be manipulated and influenced (that is bought) - such as the Americans would very much think like that (remember one Corps commander during OP PARKRAM was removed kind courtesy Amir Khans. They have exercised such a control in the past. Why would they loose it.. Kanwal or no Kanwal....
 
Last edited:

Echelon Four

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
315
Likes
1,686
20190921_163332.jpg



Mahajan firing range(Armour & Artillery) is in Sriganganagar district.

Still 2 points not understood:
1. why only for 12 hours??
2. why only 2km?

well what's interesting is that timeline ending exactly in mid November(Perceived ending time of the planned operation kabaddi 2001)
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
Papa ka nakli sign kar ke jama nahi kar sakte?
Saare 58 papaon ka?
BTW, ye kuch Emran Hashmi ka Balochistan pe aa raha hai netflix pe. Can't we use bollywood to glorify secessionists in Pakistan? Would boost their recruitment numbers for sure.
What good is soft power if it cannot be used for power?

Here it is. Isme toh RAW waale ko pele hue hain but you take out a few things, throw in a few more and this could affect the demography there. Khuda na khasta, Pakistani Bihar pe kuch aisa banayein, I'd be at least a bit interested to see what it is.

Do you have any idea how Gangaajal affected the elections around the time it was released here?
Saala pura Bihar pavitter ho jaata.
Bhai aapka Hindustani / Hindi / Urdu is a give away .......:pound:
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
View attachment 38748


Mahajan firing range(Armour & Artillery) is in Sriganganagar district.

Still 2 points not understood:
1. why only for 12 hours??
2. why only 2km?

well what's interesting is that timeline ending exactly in mid November(Perceived ending time of the planned operation kabaddi 2001)
Half of give away is the news item and another half are your questions and answer .
Good OSINT .... Intelligence problem half solved... I hope you understand what an intelligence problem is !!
 

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,485
Likes
23,358
Country flag
Bhai aapka Hindustani / Hindi / Urdu is a give away .......:pound:
Ee laal chiriya bahut patar-patar karta hai. Hum Hindustani hain, Hindi bolte hain. Urdu kya hai bhai? Hindi me zabardasti Perso Arabic script thoons ke, do chaar Farsi words daal ke language nahi banta, dialect banta hai. Wo toh two-nation theory ko justify karne ka ek zariya hai Urdu ko dusra language bolna.
Ye namuna sab Punjabi ko bhi Gurmukhi ki jagah Shahmukhi me likhta hai. Kuch mahinon ruko, English ko bhi Roman se Durrani script me likhega bastard sab.
 

Chanakya 002

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
272
Likes
681
Country flag
Hurriyat leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq was among seven individuals, detained following the abrogation of special status given to Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370, who have signed bonds to secure their release, official sources said on Friday.

However, People's Conference chairman Sajad Lone, PDP youth wing leader Waheed Para, and former bureaucrat-turned-politician Shah Faesal have refused to sign the bonds.

Apart from Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, two leaders of the National Conference (NC), one each from the Peoples Democratic Party and People's Conference, and two others, whose political affiliations were not immediately revealed, signed the bonds, the sources said.
 

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,485
Likes
23,358
Country flag
Hurriyat leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq was among seven individuals, detained following the abrogation of special status given to Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370, who have signed bonds to secure their release, official sources said on Friday.

However, People's Conference chairman Sajad Lone, PDP youth wing leader Waheed Para, and former bureaucrat-turned-politician Shah Faesal have refused to sign the bonds.

Apart from Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, two leaders of the National Conference (NC), one each from the Peoples Democratic Party and People's Conference, and two others, whose political affiliations were not immediately revealed, signed the bonds, the sources said.
The bond made Faesal flinch but Mirwaiz signed. I thought Mirwaiz was the radical one lol. This is excellent. Aise bhi Kashmiriyon ko ghanta fark parta hai Shah Faesal kya kare.. They don't trust him at all.

Bas ye Yasin Malik ko jail me sarao. Iske bond me aag laga do, if you know what I mean. ;)
 

Echelon Four

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
315
Likes
1,686
Half of give away is the news item and another half are your questions and answer .
Good OSINT .... Intelligence problem half solved... I hope you understand what an intelligence problem is !!

samajh nahi aaya... whether you scolded or appreciated
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
Ee laal chiriya bahut patar-patar karta hai.
Chriya karata nahin, Karati hai... Chiriya begum hoti hai ... Badshah nahin ... wo karati hai aur main Karta Hoon... abhi tum taiayaar ho jao.. main karoonga...

Hum Hindustani hain, Hindi bolte hain.
Uska udaharaN uparyukt hai.

Urdu kya hai bhai? Hindi me zabardasti Perso Arabic script thoons ke, do chaar Farsi words daal ke language nahi banta, dialect banta hai. Wo toh two-nation theory ko justify karne ka ek zariya hai Urdu ko dusra language bolna.
Ye namuna sab Punjabi ko bhi Gurmukhi ki jagah Shahmukhi me likhta hai. Kuch mahinon ruko, English ko bhi Roman se Durrani script me likhega bastard sab.
Apani tamannaa zahir kar di miyan ... Durrani tumhare hi pel denge .. hai Na..
 

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,485
Likes
23,358
Country flag
Chriya karata nahin, Karati hai... Chiriya begum hoti hai ... Badshah nahin ... wo karati hai aur main Karta Hoon... abhi tum taiayaar ho jao.. main karoonga...



Uska udaharaN uparyukt hai.



Apani tamannaa zahir kar di miyan ... Durrani tumhare hi pel denge .. hai Na..
Bhatt burbak! Fir patar-patar kiya!
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
The bond made Faesal flinch but Mirwaiz signed. I thought Mirwaiz was the radical one lol. This is excellent. Aise bhi Kashmiriyon ko ghanta fark parta hai Shah Faesal kya kare.. They don't trust him at all.

Bas ye Yasin Malik ko jail me sarao. Iske bond me aag laga do, if you know what I mean. ;)
Uske Bond men pahale hi allha miyan ne aag laga di hai aur ab wo airforce officers ke qatla ka muqadamaa jhelega...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top