Kashmir conflict-India should act now?

[yuebaili]

I am not allowed to marry a girl who is not in my sub-sub-caste.... This sub-sub-caste consists of 500,000 people.....

QUOTE]

Are you kidding? I thought the racist caste system was abolished in India. It is not compatible with democracy. If two people wish to marry each other, noone has the right to prevent them. But I understand in India with so many uneducated people this is not so easy. But you don´t seem to be an uneducated person.

 

[hit&run]

Kashmir: Legal Documents: Instrument of Accession

 

[Flint]

On the other hand, forcing people to give up their caste affiliations is un-democratic.

Which would you prefer, Yuebaili?

Are you kidding? I thought the racist caste system was abolished in India. It is not compatible with democracy. If two people wish to marry each other, noone has the right to prevent them. But I understand in India with so many uneducated people this is not so easy. But you don´t seem to be an uneducated person.

 

[MMuthu]

Are you kidding? I thought the racist caste system was abolished in India. It is not compatible with democracy. If two people wish to marry each other, noone has the right to prevent them. But I understand in India with so many uneducated people this is not so easy. But you don´t seem to be an uneducated person.

I can marry a muslim girl, no one can prevent me.... But If I do it.... My parents and siblings will not speak to me atleast for 5-10 years..... It may not be a big issue for west...... but we have more bonding with the family.

Arranged marriage is something foriegn to you, but atleast 60% of marragies even cites like Chennai are Arranged marraiages, though it is changing now.

Last week I heard that there is a honour killing in Himachal Pradesh, They killed the bridegroom.... There is lot of India that you dont know.

 

[MMuthu]

Yuebaili, they dont understand the basic concept of freedom.
What you are trying to tell them i have already tried, with no success.

Can you kindly explain me the basic concept of freedom?

If you think family bonding is a block stone for freedom, then We love to be slaves.

 

[Yusuf]

Are you kidding? I thought the racist caste system was abolished in India. It is not compatible with democracy. If two people wish to marry each other, noone has the right to prevent them. But I understand in India with so many uneducated people this is not so easy. But you don´t seem to be an uneducated person.

Yue, there is no connection between democracy and beliefs based on caste and religion. It's a social taboo.
No one is stopping you law, so it's democratic, but people avoid as there is a stigma attached to inter caste inter religion marriage. But that's not undemocratic.

 

[Ray]

Originally Posted by yuebaili View Post

I don´t understand. If India is a democratic country, how come India cannot accept a plebiscit in Kashmir. I am getting the impression Indians do not understand the meaning of democracy. I know most Indians ( and Pakistanis too) have very little education. But at least he forumites here should understand that not accepting the wish of the majority of Kashmiri people is against the principles of democracy.

I have explained earlier why Plebiscite cannot be held. I will say it once more - Pakistanis have to withdraw from the area they are occupying - this is as per the UN resolutions. Have they or will they vacate? If and when they vacate, we will look into the issue.

Secondly, the traditional proposal of plebiscite raises a lot of questions. The main question would be against linking the fate and aspiration of a Buddhist Ladakhi tied to a Sunni Muslim living in Sialkot. They live complete different lives. Moreover, after 60 years of independence, a lot of Kashmiris, who are legitimate stakeholders of the plebiscite, are living outside the region. A lot of people has also entered these regions (for example - people from Tibet entered Ladakh and people from NWFP entered Northern areas). It is difficult to conduct a plebiscite without bias - whoever conducts it. A role might be played by the vote with force. And at the end, whoever gets defeated, will perceive a loss and threaten to withdraw complaining a foul played by the other party. If, by any chance a lands do change ownership, it might result in a huge list of murdered and displaced people as the victor would in turn engage in routing out the anti-sentiments of the newly gained land.

India is a democracy and that is why elections have been held regularly all over the country including J&K. Vast majority of Jammu and Kashmir have voted not heeding the call of boycott by the separatists as also not fearing the terrorists and their threat that those who participate shall be killed.

Instead of just raising issues, first read history and then speak out with the indignation that you are displaying as it to indicate that you and your country alone understands democracy.

The self assumed bastion of Democracy - the US - has apart from the Bald Eagle, the spread of Freedom and Democracy with the sword (metaphorically) and dispensation of justice fairly and without torture - Guantanamo to its credit! Great landmarks of Democracy, right?

Since you think Sweden is a citadel of democracy, then could you answer this?

According to the European network against racism, skin color, ethnic/religious background have significant impact on an individuals opportunities in the labour market, affecting mainly Roma, Blacks and Muslims.

The report Racism and Xenophobia in Sweden by the Board of Integration state that Muslims are exposed to the most religious harassment in Sweden. Almost 40% of the interviewed said they had witnessed verbal abuse directed at Muslims.

That is democracy and caste of Sweden for you!!

Must have a lot of illiterates there I presume.

No big talk please.

 

[masterofsea]

according to India-Pakistan sub-system program,these regions whose popualtion mostly are Muslims belongs to Pakistan.Kashmir's people are mostly muslims.Why you want to occupy it? Nehru said:"Kashmir is indian hat",so you will fighting for this "hat"?

 

[Yusuf]

Masterofsea,

that is the two nation theory that jinnah snd co propogated. India doesn't subscribe to it.

 

[Fighter]

according to India-Pakistan sub-system program,these regions whose popualtion mostly are Muslims belongs to Pakistan.Kashmir's people are mostly muslims.Why you want to occupy it? Nehru said:"Kashmir is indian hat",so you will fighting for this "hat"?

Well said

 

[Flint]

Well said

Indeed, why should Han Chinese forcefully settle in muslim-majority Xinjiang.

You people should stop embarrassing yourself if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Ray]

according to India-Pakistan sub-system program,these regions whose popualtion mostly are Muslims belongs to Pakistan.Kashmir's people are mostly muslims.Why you want to occupy it? Nehru said:"Kashmir is indian hat",so you will fighting for this "hat"?

India has the second largest Muslim population in the world.

By that logic, should India not become Pakistan?

 

[Ray]

Indeed, why should Han Chinese forcefully settle in muslim-majority Xinjiang.

You people should stop embarrassing yourself if you want to be taken seriously.

And surprisingly, while Pakistan claims to be a great champion of Islam, she has stitched her lips so far as the carnage that went on in Xinjiang against the Muslims there.

Surprisingly, Chinese who are so concerned about Kashmir are not concerned about the colonisation being done by the Chinese in Tibet and Xinjaing!!

And best part is while there have been elections in Kashmir regularly, China has nothing called democracy!!

I marvel at the hypocrisy!!

 

[masterofsea]

India has the second largest Muslim population in the world.

By that logic, should India not become Pakistan?

lol:

******,sum and proportion are two concept.

PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS MILITARY PROS AS BUDDY

 

[masterofsea]

And surprisingly, while Pakistan claims to be a great champion of Islam, she has stitched her lips so far as the carnage that went on in Xinjiang against the Muslims there.

Surprisingly, Chinese who are so concerned about Kashmir are not concerned about the colonisation being done by the Chinese in Tibet and Xinjaing!!

And best part is while there have been elections in Kashmir regularly, China has nothing called democracy!!

I marvel at the hypocrisy!!

there are mongols,kazakhs,tajiks,...In Xinjiang province.
This illustration will give you concept of xinjiang's population.

 

[Terminator]

@ Ray
What more can you expect from the biggest slippery & shrewd countries(Hypocrites) of world to do?
A wolf cant be disguised in sheep clothing as its true colours will be vented somehow due to tempatation.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

according to India-Pakistan sub-system program,these regions whose popualtion mostly are Muslims belongs to Pakistan.Kashmir's people are mostly muslims.Why you want to occupy it? Nehru said:"Kashmir is indian hat",so you will fighting for this "hat"?

Masterofsea why dosen't Pakistan accept all of India's muslims since you have all the answers?? why just Kashmir??? Kashmir is less than 10% of India's muslims, why are you concerned with something that you know nothing about??

 

[Ray]

I am well aware of the demography of Xinjiang.

Kashmir has Sunni Muslim, Shia Muslims, Hindu Kashmiri, Hindu Dogras, Buddhist Ladakhis, Sikh Kashmrirs and so on!

So what are you suggesting?

And proportion matters! Obviously, they don't matter in China. In fact, nothing matters in China except what the CCP wants!!

Now how about allowing Xinjiang to become an independent country and also allow Tibet to be so since China occupied it in 1951?

Of course, Fighter won't thank me since Pakistan is but a subsidiary of China!

 

[yuebaili]

I

Since you think Sweden is a citadel of democracy, then could you answer this?

According to the European network against racism, skin color, ethnic/religious background have significant impact on an individuals opportunities in the labour market, affecting mainly Roma, Blacks and Muslims.

The report Racism and Xenophobia in Sweden by the Board of Integration state that Muslims are exposed to the most religious harassment in Sweden. Almost 40% of the interviewed said they had witnessed verbal abuse directed at Muslims.

That is democracy and caste of Sweden for you!!

Must have a lot of illiterates there I presume.

No big talk please.

Yusuf wrote "there is no connection between democracy and beliefs based on caste and religion. It's a social taboo."
I agree. But it is backward and stupid. Just like racist and religious discrimination committed by individuals in the West. It is against the law and you can be punished for that. But then proof is needed. You also need to define what is meant by religious harassment. E.g there are Muslims who call drawing cartoons of their prophet harassment (heard of the Danish cartoons?). Also some Muslims call it harassment when we just ask that they respect the rules of our society - e.g. equality between men and women.

 

[Daredevil]

It is better if people just stick to Kashmir conflict. The thread is going on a tangent with discussion on democracy, caste system etc. Just a request to the members.