J20 Shock to PLAAF

Discussion in 'China' started by HariPrasad-1, Feb 26, 2018.

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  1. jat

    jat Regular Member

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    A lot of things are made in China. A lot of things that are not sustainable or economical. Thats why China is pushing its infrastructure projects on other nations. Solar panels? Soon as green got the go signal every nation wants to make their own solar panels or assembly to do the work that is economical. China has a problem. Its not efficient or economical. Global pundits, don't say China's economy is bigger than the data, the say China is maybe smaller then the data. I don't really care, but get your head out of your middle ass. Know China is not as strong as it depicts itself to you people being ruled by CCP. Your frustration over India is ridiculous just because you don't understand India and its people.
    Bottom line, its not black and white. its not a zero sum competition. But reality counts. The reality of China's strengths are real, the reality of China's weakness, failures of governance are real, but not in the spot light.
     
  2. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma meh Senior Member

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    Question - why are you guys so insecure? You just completely changed the topic from Walmart to cranes. Yeah, China has been waging economic warfare against the West due to favorable tax treatment from govt, aggressive deals with corporates and some other factors. Western companies just cannot compete on price. That's part of the reason behind the recent trend towards protectionism by Trump.

    But the average consumer does not buy Chinese crap unless they don't care about durability. Heck, I just bought dog food online and the ratings on the usual brand that I bought dropped from five stars to three on Amazon because somebody pointed out it has ingredients from China. :sad:

    Please stay on topic and avoid mental gymnastics.

    Edit: proof

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    are we comparing made in china with made in America, or made in china with made in India?

    Americans beat Chinese hands down in manufacturing, while Chinese beat indians hands down in manufacturing. period.
     
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  4. jat

    jat Regular Member

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    Made in China with everything. Its just doesn't sell. China does not have brand this despite the economic weight of China. Thats something to consider. I mean even Iphones are made in China but only purchased because its an apple product, same with Sony, Toshiba, Samsung. Chinese phones...laptops, cars. Still a uphill battle. I have bought quite a few things, made in India but packaged in China! its insane. Globalization is confusing thing.
    Bottom line, don't be butt hurt, if Indians call you out on Chinese quality. India doesn't have much of an industry but they don't exactly have a bad brand.
    How does this apply to J-20?
    Its a rather quick paced project no? IAF doesn't show concern, US forces don't show concern or even RuAF. Whats J-20 lacking? Quality? Design? Well could be both. Judging by the fuggly design one can guess its lacking in LO stealth from every side except bottom and front? That would explain why China is still buying those J-16s.
    Theres a lot of questionable things. Like AESA. Does J-20 have AESA? I don't think so. It could but consider the logic of PLAAF. Would you have a matured powerful PESA or a infant under powered AESA? AESA on paper provides lots of capabilities but to achieve it is difficult especially on smaller platforms. Agility? J-20 has none. Thats obvious given its design. Its like a F-8 finback all over again. No doubt it has enough, but its no dogfighter.
    But I gotta give it to PLA for pushing into service platforms not fully combat ready. They have a huge budget, but this is part of their slab that they need to cut off to be combat ready. Opposite of what JSDF or IAF does. PLA is bloated, but it is supporting domestic industry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  5. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    DJI is the very few brand allowed to sell in official Apple store, even without Apple's share.

    Huawei is testing 5G network in world's richest nations on Nordic like Norway, Denmark.

    Local Chinese market sold 29 million cars, 47% are local brands, competing with those foreign brands' latest models.


    Those stuff are real complicated industrial finished products, not as low end as textile industry.

    The scary thing to India is, China's manufacture is like monster, it eats the whole value chain from low end to high, and give very little space to Indian, from Diwali LED lamps to power plant equipment.

    I remember on 2004, the India still have slight trade surplus to China when it sold massive iron ore and other materials; But on 2017 Chinese enjoys like 60 billion USD surplus and most of them are finished products and the trend to India is still getting worse.

    I think if you have energy to "guess" the J20 is real shit or not, better spent more time to research how's your competitor is destroying your industry base, and fix your LCA/Arjun first...
     
  6. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    You're working backwards to the conclusion you prefer basing your arguments on conjecture ignorance and an inherent bias.

    The problem with Indian fanboys on this forum is they constantly want to compare Indian entities with Chinese entities.

    China has many more internationally successful brands than India does. China is the world's largest trading nation accross many industries and sub sectors.

    Because India does not have a single fighter-borne AESA in operation, fanboys here find it unbelievable that the Chinese military has at least 3 in service and even a novel air-cooled AESA for light weight fighters on offer for export customers.

    Because it took HAL/ADA 30 years to bring a decent lightweight fighter into service, you all find it inconceivable that AVIC/CAC started LRIP deliveries of heavy weight stealth fighter airframes to the PLAAF 7 years after J20s first flight. The F35A took 7 years from first flight to IOC.

    India's military industrial complex is not as technologically or industrially developed as its Chinese counterpart. Just because India is incapable of fielding certain technologies does not mean China is too gents. Do a little research before posting.
     
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  7. kamaal

    kamaal Regular Member

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    Sorry , but India still beats in many sectors. India manufactures less, but it maintains quality. If your country doesn't have free media then how can we believe on the data of the number of failure your manufactured products suffers from.

    If you don't believe me then compare automobile & pharmaceutical products from India with that of China and see whether your products could compete against them.
     
  8. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    Automobile industry.... This is quite absurd to compare between China and India:



    Automotive Parts Exports by Country by 2016

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/automotive-parts-exports-country/
    1. Germany: US$56.4 billion (15.6% of total auto parts exports)
    2. United States: $42.8 billion (11.9%)
    3. Japan: $31.7 billion (8.8%)
    4. China: $28.4 billion (7.9%)
    5. Mexico: $26.2 billion (7.3%)
    6. South Korea: $21.8 billion (6.1%)
    7. India $4 billion 1.1%

    ----------------------------------------

    Truck Exports by Country by 2016
    http://www.worldstopexports.com/exported-trucks-country/

    12. China: $2.8 billion (2.4%)
    22. India $770.3 million 0.7%


    ----------------------------------------

    Value of bus and truck tire exports in 2014

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/671224/global-exports-of-bus-and-truck-tires-value-by-country/

    1. China $USD 5717k
    12. India $USD 577k


    ----------------------------------------


    Car Sales by 2017:

    China: 24 millions cars

    http://auto.gasgoo.com/News/2018/01/1107002602670031940C206.shtml


    India: 4 millison cars
    http://www.lieqinews.com/a/180128095155513.html

    [​IMG]



    ----------------------------------------


    China's sales of top 3 luxury cars:
    http://auto.eastday.com/a/180126195044883.html
    Benz: 610,965 with average of USD80,000/pcs
    Audi (no VW brand included): 595,700 with average of USD55,000/pcs
    BMW: 594,388 with average of USD70,000/pcs


    And Benz in India at 2017:
    http://auto.163.com/18/0110/01/D7OIBT77000884MM.html#from=relevant
    Benz: 15330


    And India's car market is totally controlled by foreign brands with low end model:
    [​IMG]


    -------------------------------

    BYD Becomes First Chinese Auto Company to Penetrate Japanese Market 02/26/2015
    http://www.byd.com/news/news-275.html

    BYD Motors Wins America's Largest Electric Bus Order
    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...cas-largest-electric-bus-order-300138125.html


    --------------------------------------

    Even counting the luxury cars, mainland Chinese bought 2.4 millions by 2017, almost 60% of your whole car markert... And look at the average prices of your top selling cars...

    Are China & India in the same league, and shall we waste more time on such comparison?
     
  9. Project Dharma

    Project Dharma meh Senior Member

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    For me China against the best in the world since a lot of Chinese posters claim superiority over America and European countries. Comparing India doesn't make sense, China is obviously ahead in manufacturing.
     
  10. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    name one Chinese poster here who claimed Chinese superiority over America in manufacturing.
     
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  11. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    Mohtarmaa AAP.

    __________________________________________
     
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  12. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    I would rather say that automobile industries of China and India are approximately on the same level, it may take a while to tell who will be ahead.
    it's true that indian pharmaceutical industry is doing better for whatever reason.
    but several sectors alone can't support the massive industrialization of countries as large as China and India. As a whole, India is behind.
     
  13. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Car exports by country 2016

    20. India $6.4 billion 0.9%
    22. China $5 billion 0.7%

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/car-exports-country/

    Looks like you got beat.
     
  14. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    you seem to forget that after Samsung and Apple, Chinese HUAWEI is the third largest smartphone vendor which manages to accomplish that albeit denied to American smartphone market.

    And HUAWEI just launched its new flagship P20 and P20 pro series, which toppled Samsung galaxy S9, ranking the top two on the DXOMARK list. I am very optimistic that, if this trend continues, HUAWEI may surpass Apple in three years as huawei's CEO for smartphone division has envisioned.
    https://www.dxomark.com/category/mobile-reviews/

    No comment on defence industry, because it's so obvious that India is out of the league.
     
  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I noticed Google is blocking Gapps so any uncertified China smartphone will be unable to use Google Services.
     
  16. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil Regular Member

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    Almost spat my water all over the keyboard with this one....
     
  17. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil Regular Member

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    Huawei is low quality garbage all around, with extensive bribing in the industry, extreme corruption, undercutting of costs, entirely dodgy business practices, and quite possibly the least trustworthy company in the world. All this from first-hand accounts.

    Huawei is also severely subsidized by the Chinese government, which is why it's able to undercut everyone.

    I've never (not once) heard of an enterprise customer happy with Huawei, and I've come across a LOT of them.

    Don't know about their smartphones, but probably they're as crap as their enterprise products.
     
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  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Huawei is just like every other Chinese company scamming its customers. Last year the P10 was advertised having UFS 2.1 and DDR4 memory but it only came with eMMc and DDR3.
     
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  19. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    1.you are saying "made in china" is winning while "made in west/others" is losing.

    2.you are discrediting the winner~"made in china"

    3.it is not unusual that losers like discrediting winners.

    4. i do nor care such discredit to "made in china".

    in fact, such discredits from losers are always the sweet trouble to winners.

    5.if someday "made in india" also were to encounter such discrefits, then "made in india " must be asskicking the discreditors.
     
  20. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    i do not think so.

    even usa manufacturing can not beat chinese one in all fields(even in highend fields such as supercomputer),otherwise trump would not rant "make Usa great again"(it means trump admit usa is not as great as it was himself).

    of course,as a whole,china manufacturing is stll lag behind usa one,especially in those "old sections" founded on decades of experience.

    we still have to tie our belt and work hard,until "made in china" can asskick "made in usa "completely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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