J20 Shock to PLAAF

Discussion in 'China' started by HariPrasad-1, Feb 26, 2018.

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  1. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Blue: J20 * 2, with lensen lens, only carries Mid-Range AAM
    Red: Several 3.5x gen fighter + Several 3x gen fighter + KJ500 AWACs
    Blue Target: Kill KJ500 AWACs

    Process:
    J20 entered by low altitude, kills 3x gen 1 by 1,
    KJ500 turned to the opposite and ran, called 3.5x back
    J20 tried to make sure of kill, was too close to KJ500, KJ500 downed but located J20 in radar, distributed to 3.5x via datalink,
    J20 out of AAM and ran
    3.5x AESA was able to see through the ECM from J20

    Result:
    Red: KJ500 AWACs killed. All 3x killed, lots of 3.5x killed.
    Blue: 1 J20 killed.

    Drill 2:
    Multiple J20 and J16 played 3rd party other than Blue/Red (most likely simulates F22/F15)
    Red: 3.5x, 3x, SAM, AWACs, Ground based Radar,...entire PLAAF set up before J20
    Blue Target: kill key Red battle node (Blue most likely simulates TaiWan forces)

    Process:
    J20 as information node, J16 receives tactical information from J20 and shoots Long-Range AAM (PL21/PL15?), downed lots of Red planes (like F35, A shoot B guide)
    Red tried to use SAM as bait, but backfired and lost SAM units.

    Result:
    Blue successfully killed key battle node (Airport? AWACs? Ground EW Radar? whatever...)
    Only 1 J16 was down by Red

    DRILLs proved many so-called PLAAF 'tactics' before J20 entering service, were just empty thinking.

    Source: 席亚洲
     
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  3. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    This is for all those who were saying that J 20 is a great fifth generation plane. When I used to say that it is not a plane to be taken seriously , they used to do a lots of counter argument . This for them with love.
     
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  4. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    I can't see where the J 20 is doing badly here. Maybe above average at best. Please explain.
     
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  5. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well.the above has spreaded in chinese cyberspace for days.


    like f35,j20 seems to have advance datalinks sharing realtime data with other platforms like Awac(kj500),j10c/j11b/j16.
    that is j20's latercomer's edge on f22.

    because f22 was developed too early , f22 can not share realtime data with other platforms like e3/f16/f18/f15.

    so,j20 can play the role of silent stealth detectors/missle guiders,transfering targeting information to assenal~platfroms like j16/h6/h7,while f22 can not until upgraded.


    to some extent,f22 is lonely assassins because its~information~sending~out would expose its postion.

    j20/f35 can act as silent stealth detecting/relaying/commanding platform,due to their advanced datalink.


    i won't be surprised at All that PLAAF has one of global most advanced datalinks ,when chinese communicaton tycoons like Huawei/ZTE perform so well in civilian communication market.
    after all,most communication tech are dual~purpose one .
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  6. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    You sir, are a comedic genius. You actually took information that more than validates the capabilities of the J20 as a next generation fighter and displayed it with Pomp thinking it supports your hater views on the aircraft!:confused1::crazy:

    Learn to comprehend what you read before jumping to ridicule. I'll give you the benefit of doubt here since that translation is pretty hard to understand. Here's a write up from Henri K regarding those rumored airforce exercises involving the J20.

    http://www.eastpendulum.com/les-rumeurs-sur-les-premiers-combats-du-j-20
    Rumors about the first "fights" of the J-20

    HENRI KENHMANN
    2018-02-16

    [​IMG]
    Two J-20 of the Chinese Air Force pictured in formation

    It is then thought that the J-20 would have at least participated in two types of combat scenarios. The first is to assess the ability of the aircraft to conduct aerial combat as a direct responder, in the face of singular adversaries or reinforced by multiplying means in the air and on the ground. intercept "or" sweep "to eliminate any kind of threat from the sky to pave the way for the squadrons that follow.

    For that, several cases would have been unfolded, in which the J-20 always intervened in pairs. For example, there is the case of two J-20s in BVR against a number of J-10B and J-10C which are supported by an AWACS KJ-500, in which one of the two J-20s would have managed to shoot down the AWACS by surprise thanks to its stealth and range of its new Air-Air missile, while the other was busy entertaining and chasing the escort apparatus. A J-20 was reportedly shot down by a J-10C with active-scan radar, which was able to locate and lock the stealth fighter a short distance within 18 km, while all J-10Bs and half of the J-10C would have been down at the end.



    In the second type of scenario, the J-20s as well as the J-16 fighter bombers would have been used as reinforcements to come to support the OPFOR planes, which go to the assault against a site guarded by "the red army ".

    The latter would consist of a number of J-10 interceptors (unknown version), AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft, as well as ground-based radar units and S-300 type air defense systems. (PMU1 or PMU2).

    Here, the J-20 would have rather played the role of remote sensors, in advanced position, to guide the Air-Air missiles launched by the third planes (J-16?) On the "red" interceptors and the other multipliers in flight. The scenario would be ended by a heavy loss of ground units and Red Army units, and especially the reaching of sensitive targets by the OPFOR aircraft, a scenario that would suggest that of a possible conflict between Mainland China and Taiwan, where the latter will be endorsed by the US military with the F-22 and F-35 for example.


    [​IMG]
    J-16 and J-20, the new "winning couple" of the Chinese Air Force?

    [​IMG]
    Two J-20s photographed by a J-16 pilot (Image: CCTV)



    If in these rumors the versions are more or less different, all converge all the same to a point to say that the introduction of J-20 within the Chinese air forces generates a "shock" and especially a "disillusion", which has allowed the commanders of the air and anti-aircraft ground units to become aware of the "harsh reality" of the last generation of fighter jets (4th in China, 5th in the US or Russia) and stealth, and to understand that the tactics developed in recent years to counter such devices are for the most "ineffective" and "inoperative".

    Of course, we should expect other official sources to verify these claims, but one thing is certain, the Chinese Air Force is still in its infancy to refine the employment doctrines of a stealthy aircraft such as the J-20, and also to develop adequate means to counteract this kind of threat on a concrete basis.

    In both rumored exercises smaller numbers of J20's and the J20/J16 combo totally dominated the 4th generation fighters, AWACs and Air defense units pitched against them. The "shock" to the PLAAF is the demonstration of just how unprepared they are to combat US/Japanese 5th generation fighters. Read the whole article on the link above.

    These results, if true, would explain why the J20 was rushed into service. PLA/PLAAF aerial combat units, air defense units and electronic warfare units need to develop counter measures and tactics versus stealth aircraft through realistic combat exercises like the ones detailed above.

    In light of the results above, the PLAAF also desperately needed a stealth fighter platform to square off against the US assets based in Guam and Okinawa. Which is probably why they are deployed facing the ECS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  7. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    J20 shocked PLAAF because its performance exceeded people's expectations and busted the fantasies that China could counter America's air superiority with 3rd generation fighters, it made plaaf generals realize that the tactics they used to devise to counter American F22 and F35 were totally obsolete.
     
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  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I am sure PAF has received latest Chinese data links... oh wait, they reviewed them and said no thanks. If PAF rejects Chinese data links I think we know enough.
     
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  9. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    I hope you will forgive me for raising my eyebrows on this piece of news because anything of this nature coming from Chinese internet can very well be propaganda. I have no way of telling truth from lies here.

    Now before my Chinese fellows start, I am not trying to deny that J 20 is a more capable platform than any of the 4th generation (by International classification) fighters like J-11. But I will not be surprised if much of this exercise was scripted for public consumption.
     
  10. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...s-plan-guarantee-the-f-22-dominates-the-24286

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-air-force-giving-the-f-22-new-job-sniper-the-sky-24355

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a15949440/air-force-no-gps-red-flag/

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-gateway-for-f-22-and-f-35-back-on-sh-443005/
     
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  11. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    For every problem there is a solution. L Band radars for finding stealth aircraft. Guess which future Indian platform will have wing mounted L band AESAs?
     
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  12. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are a joke like your Chinese planes and other weapons . J20 is such a junk ( Chinese call it a fifth generation plane ) which is a fifth generation plane without the engine of fifth generation plane, without sophisticated radar, without weapons of fifth generation planes. It is not stealth and it's designer was sacked for such bad design . You can put your money in because the money is yours . We shall be more than happy to see that you spend your money in this junk and do not buy Russian planes. Good luck.
     
  13. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakfa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
     
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  14. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    [​IMG]
    .......................................................................................................................
     
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  15. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    :blah:You are a nationalistic troll who's arguments are limited to "J20 is junk", "it has an unsophisticated radar" and "it is not stealth". A troll so clueless you posted positive information about the J20 thinking it was detrimental to the jet's image.

    The J20 is the first heavy weight fighter produced outside of the West and Russia. Your own country spent more than 2 decades trying to develop a LIGHT WEIGHT jet fighter yet you have the gall to call the J20 junk? You're so far behind you're not even in the race son:rofl:

    Dr. Song is a legend in the aerospace industry mate, his work is celebrated throughout China and abroad... "fired" indeed, You'd be lucky to achieve even a tenth of his life's work fanboy.

    [​IMG]

    Your knowledge is limited to nationalistic drivel mate.
     
  16. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    AMCA?
    No. They call it fourth generation. I know its crazy. Its like how we call a ship a corvette and he Pakistanis call a similar ship a destroyer. LoL. Now in warships, there is no standardization. But on fighters, the world has a consensus and everyone calls J20, F22, F35, Su-57, AMCA 5th generation. BUTTT The Chinese call them fourth generation. Rebels against international order to their very core these Chinese.
     
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  17. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    SU57 is hardly an "Indian platform" mate... You may be partly funding its development and buying it later, but when will the Indian air Force get its hands on one? In the early 2020's?

    The PLAAF just started developing operational procedures and tactics for operating 5th generation aircraft in 2017 and they have a long way to go. The IAF isn't even off the ground yet in that regard.
     
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  18. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    Don't think that it will take long for IAF to develop tactics. They are far superior to PLAAF in this. In fact, superior tactics and training is the only advantage IAF have vis-a-vis PLAAF.

    EDIT: IAF also has a geographical advantage. Forgot about that.
     
  19. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't really understand how you measure tactics development... and even rate one air Force above the other in tactics, but suit yourself. Superior in training too you say?

    What I do know is that even the US Air Force is still developing new ways to exploit the advantages of stealth fighters in air combat after almost 2 decades operating them. I also know that the USAF is considering inducting new pilots straight to the F35 because combat in 4th gen (3rd gen) and 5th gen (4th gen) fighters is so different that pilots from f15s, f16s and f18s bring "bad habits, instincts and tactics"detrimental to stealth fighter operations.

    But if you claim that the IAF, an air Force that won't even have access to a stealth fighter till the 2020's will just be "superior" out of the blue... Good for them I guess.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  20. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    Not out of the blue buddy. IAF has a very good system of creating and disseminating new tactics. They have experience. They know the difference. And what makes you think they are not already simulating missions? Even if they are getting their planes late, they are likely going to pick up pace fairly quickly and can easily surpass PLAAF tactics in much lesser time.
    When was the last time PLAAF went to war? 1958? And when was the first time PLAAF went to war? 1958? PLAAF as an institution was barely half the level of IAF not too long ago. Building an institution, that too in isolation, is difficult. The only benefit you guys get from PAF is their training. This is the most significant factor for me in Sino-Pakistani relationship.
    PLAAF has a ways to go before it can stand with the top tier air forces of the world. But PLAAF is getting there.
    You should try reading this book: "The Lessons of History: The Chinese People's Liberation Army at 75" although I am not sure if it is available in your part of the internet.
     
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  21. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    Here is your J 20s 'inspiration'.

    [​IMG]
     
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