J-11BS vs Su-30MKI

Pulkit

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If SU-30MKI is the most advanced a/c in asia, then why India is craving for Rafale? :lol:.
The capability of Su is not in question when it comes to Rafale.
No one knows why IAF wants Rafale.
They want a medium aircraft for to unknown reasons.
IAF has 272 Su MKI on order I believe that tell you how much faith they have in it.
That Rafale buying consideration is already a solid indication that IAF realize their SU-30MKI may not be able to handle J-10B or J-11B.
J-10B or J-11B are no match to Su , with Brahmos already fitted into Su 30 MKI it is even more deadly.
While surely like to know why you think that.
And yes Rafale can easily counter J-10B or J-11B and Su 30 MKI is superior to Rafale any day.
Vietnam pilot on their SU30 has bad experience when they were facing chinese a/c they were always locked and unable to detect their foe.
Just FYI we have Su MKI which is far better than even the OEM version i.e. Russian version.
Ours is Su 30MKI not Su 30 read the difference first so that we can discuss further
 

Antam1505

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The capability of Su is not in question when it comes to Rafale.
No one knows why IAF wants Rafale.
They want a medium aircraft for to unknown reasons.
IAF has 272 Su MKI on order I believe that tell you how much faith they have in it.
J-10B or J-11B are no match to Su , with Brahmos already fitted into Su 30 MKI it is even more deadly.
While surely like to know why you think that.
And yes Rafale can easily counter J-10B or J-11B and Su 30 MKI is superior to Rafale any day.
Why is that? what make you think J-10B or J11B no match tu SU?

30MKI performance you mention above is not really clear, and it seems you dont know the capability of J10B/J11B.

First Brahmos is cruise anti ship missile which may not be better than YJ-12.
Second, MKI's radar is still PESA where J-10B/J11B radar is AESA.

This radar performance has talk much about how the J10B/J11B would be better in BVR engagement than MKI. PESA is still vulnerable to jamming and decoy and not stealthy compared to AESA.

Not to mention with advanced ramjet BVRAAM PL21 equivalent to meteor - J-11B will be very lethal and combination with AESA can easily down MKI and Rafale

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-21.htm
http://hk.crntt.com/doc/1016/0/1/4/...=4&kindid=16&docid=101601409&mdate=0217131353

Just FYI we have Su MKI which is far better than even the OEM version i.e. Russian version.
Ours is Su 30MKI not Su 30 read the difference first so that we can discuss further
Are you saying MKI is better than SU35 the most advanced Russian a/c?

Even SU35 radar is not AESA yet.
 

hit&run

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If SU-30MKI is the most advanced a/c in asia, then why India is craving for Rafale? :lol:

That Rafale buying consideration is already a solid indication that IAF realize their SU-30MKI may not be able to handle J-10B or J-11B.

Vietnam pilot on their SU30 has bad experience when they were facing chinese a/c they were always locked and unable to detect their foe.
Your hands are running faster than your brain, come back if you think you will be able to make any sense next time.

Hint 1 : Rafale vs MKI !!! Two different roles. Both required. no versus.

Hint 2: Thread someone posted to compare SU-30MKI (flying and kicking ass with max pushing of the envelope) vs J-10B (Prototype, an over hyped Chinese wet dream of F-22 contender, with no Engine, no capable known avionic/electronic suit, unknown stealth capabilities, most likely using every thing Russian under that heavy canopy that allegedly will be stealthy).
 

Antam1505

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Your hands are running faster than your brain, come back if you think you will be able to make any sense next time.

Hint 1 : Rafale vs MKI !!! Two different roles. Both required. no versus.

Hint 2: Thread someone posted to compare SU-30MKI (flying and kicking ass with max pushing of the envelope) vs J-10B (Prototype, an over hyped Chinese wet dream of F-22 contender, with no Engine, no capable known avionic/electronic suit, unknown stealth capabilities, most likely using every thing Russian under that heavy canopy that allegedly will be stealthy).

The question is simple:

What make MKI able to beat J11B in BVR?

None of you have given any valid and logical reason except superficial and nationalistic claim.

I have given you hint/explanation the excellence of J11B which are: AESA radar, low RCS + PL21 bvraam ramjet that could down a/c without the same capability (AESA)
 

Antam1505

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You are using John Pike as a reliable source. You lost the battle before it even began. :biggrin2:
And what are you using? How come you put your own opinion with superficial analysis above all? :lol:
 

blueblood

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And what are you using? How come you put your own opinion with superficial analysis above all? :lol:
Well this kind of confidence stems from the ability to sift good sources from bad ones and calling out the propaganda BS for what it is. Something you are not very good at :bounce:and precisely the reason I don't waste time with newbies.

Guangdong Provincial Party Committee Propaganda Department minister was transferred to Deputy Minister of the Central Propaganda Department Tuo Zhen

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.in&sl=zh-TW&u=http://hk.crntt.com/doc/1038/4/9/1/103849125.html?coluid=151&kindid=11511&docid=103849125&mdate=0717143227&usg=ALkJrhhR_Ssrn_tavcbEINwXRkv1OBnSWA

From your own source.:shock: You are trying convince rest of us, mere mortals to listen to people with entire propaganda ministries. Nice try.



This is the supposed J-10B "AESA". Only one in world with interrogators sticking out. If only the rest of the world was as advanced as Chinese (or atleast their propaganda ministry).:pound:

Let's try few more excellent sources and Chinese brilliance simultaneously.

China's Stealth Helicopter To Counter F-35

http://www.asian-defence.net/2010/12/chinas-stealth-helicopter-to-counter-f.html

China’s New Stealth Fighter Could Defeat F-35, AVIC Chief Says

Asked about the J-31’s combat ability compared to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, Lin replied: “The J-31 will finish it off in the sky.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lth-fighter-could-defeat-f-35-avic-chief-says

Then the reality bites back.


China’s FC-31 Fighter Disappoints in First Display

The display at Zhuhai revealed some poor aerodynamic efficiency. The aircraft bleeds too much energy and the pilot had hard time keeping the nose up during turns and other maneuvers. He also had to engage afterburners far too often to maintain a proper energy utilization curve. Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai was a “clean” jet. An aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would have an even more dismal flight performance, they said.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...hinas-fc-31-fighter-disappoints-first-display

.............................................................................................................

For your AESA, your carrier killers, your deathstars, your supercavitation nuke subs I suggest you find a different forum.

The one thing I definitely find amazing is J-11's unbelievable crash rate as in I don't believe it. Every single operational fighter has crashed one time or other but not J-11.

Nearly two decades of service and 250 units took to air with hundreds of thousands of flying hours and not a single crash.

Also there's no DSI.




 
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Antam1505

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Well this kind of confidence stems from the ability to sift good sources from bad ones and calling out the propaganda BS for what it is. Something you are not very good at :bounce:and precisely the reason I don't waste time with newbies.

Guangdong Provincial Party Committee Propaganda Department minister was transferred to Deputy Minister of the Central Propaganda Department Tuo Zhen

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.in&sl=zh-TW&u=http://hk.crntt.com/doc/1038/4/9/1/103849125.html?coluid=151&kindid=11511&docid=103849125&mdate=0717143227&usg=ALkJrhhR_Ssrn_tavcbEINwXRkv1OBnSWA

From your own source.:shock: You are trying convince rest of us, mere mortals to listen to people with entire propaganda ministries. Nice try.



This is the supposed J-10B "AESA". Only one in world with interrogators sticking out. If only the rest of the world was as advanced as Chinese (or atleast their propaganda ministry).:pound:

You may call it propaganda, even if so that doesnt prove anything you claim that SU30MKI is superior than J-11B in term of BVR. Furthermore that kind of propaganda is not in line with the sun tzu strategy that is adopted by china.

And why you doubt that China - who currently is leading in Supercomputing technology, 5 Generation Mobile network, telco, remote sensing, software technology, microprocessor, and semiconductor - leaving you and Russia in the dust, can make a decent AESA radar?

If China can beat US and Japan in supercomputing and 5G mobile network race, it is not difficult to accept the same possibility with AESA / avionics technology or at least approaching. Remember Europe, Russia and China are behind US in AESA technology.

China's Stealth Helicopter To Counter F-35

http://www.asian-defence.net/2010/12/chinas-stealth-helicopter-to-counter-f.html

China’s New Stealth Fighter Could Defeat F-35, AVIC Chief Says

Asked about the J-31’s combat ability compared to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, Lin replied: “The J-31 will finish it off in the sky.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lth-fighter-could-defeat-f-35-avic-chief-says

Then the reality bites back.


China’s FC-31 Fighter Disappoints in First Display

The display at Zhuhai revealed some poor aerodynamic efficiency. The aircraft bleeds too much energy and the pilot had hard time keeping the nose up during turns and other maneuvers. He also had to engage afterburners far too often to maintain a proper energy utilization curve. Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai was a “clean” jet. An aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would have an even more dismal flight performance, they said.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...hinas-fc-31-fighter-disappoints-first-display

.............................................................................................................

For your AESA, your carrier killers, your deathstars, your supercavitation nuke subs I suggest you find a different forum.

Dont be mixed up and twist the logic.
J-31 dissappointment most probably is due to the lack of engine power, nothing to do with its stealth, AESA and electronic warfare capability. AVIC chief said it could (probability) due to its stealth. And the future J-31 is not intended to use the same engine. Same like the first prototype of F-16 Fighting Falcon was using less performing engine compared to F-16A.

The carrier killer, hypersonic glide etc is based on western inteligence and Pentagon report, not by Chinese propaganda. China scare America not by propaganda but by demonstrating her capability. For example when her submarine suddenly appear nearby Kitty Hawk.


The one thing I definitely find amazing is J-11's unbelievable crash rate as in I don't believe it. Every single operational fighter has crashed one time or other but not J-11.

Nearly two decades of service and 250 units took to air with hundreds of thousands of flying hours and not a single crash.

Also there's no DSI.
Another twisted logic.
Did Chinese government claim that J-11 never crash?
If you or world doesnt know what happen in China doesnt mean China make propaganda :lol:
 

blueblood

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You may call it propaganda, even if so that doesnt prove anything you claim that SU30MKI is superior than J-11B in term of BVR. Furthermore that kind of propaganda is not in line with the sun tzu strategy that is adopted by china.
First of all, kudos for keeping your cover intact for 8 hours. A 45 year old Indonesian male passionately defending CCP's armed wing with his very first post on an Indian forum and then some.

People like you make me believe in humanity.

Bars > anything Chinese as of today
Meteor, K-77M/E > PL21 or any other imaginary thing
French/Israeli avionics > Chinese ones. Ask Pakis.

And why you doubt that China - who currently is leading in Supercomputing technology, 5 Generation Mobile network, telco, remote sensing, software technology, microprocessor, and semiconductor - leaving you and Russia in the dust, can make a decent AESA radar?

If China can beat US and Japan in supercomputing and 5G mobile network race, it is not difficult to accept the same possibility with AESA / avionics technology or at least approaching.
The fact that you cannot differentiate between civilian and military tech, speaks volumes of your knowledge and thus making you a strong contender for my highly coveted "ignore list".

China not just has the fastest super-computer, it also has the world's largest hydel power plant, largest HSR network. You know who doesn't have the dam or the HSR, US of A.

I mean who the hell cares for F-22 when you have the best 5G network.:hehe:

Remember Europe, Russia and China are behind US in AESA technology.
Yet, J-31 will shoot down F-35 like a fly according to the AVIC chief. Maybe its the other avionics or engine. Right?

Dont be mixed up and twist the logic.
J-31 dissappointment most probably is due to the lack of engine power, nothing to do with its stealth, AESA and electronic warfare capability. AVIC chief said it could (probability) due to its stealth. And the future J-31 is not intended to use the same engine. Same like the first prototype of F-16 Fighting Falcon was using less performing engine compared to F-16A.
Would you like to share another gem of a source for this or is it just hot air? Apparently you understood what chief meant but somehow I didn't. Strange because neither of us are Chinese.:tongue2:

The carrier killer, hypersonic glide etc is based on western inteligence and Pentagon report, not by Chinese propaganda. China scare America not by propaganda but by demonstrating her capability. For example when her submarine suddenly appear nearby Kitty Hawk.
Yawnnnnn. Now you are boring me. China scaring America, fun words but meaningless.

Since you like to take Western official reports pretty seriously here's an ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) report.





Now you go ahead, disagree with this official report and make my day. Avoiding it won't help as I'll post it again.

Another twisted logic.
Did Chinese government claim that J-11 never crash?
If you or world doesnt know what happen in China doesnt mean China make propaganda :lol:
Offcourse not. It absolutely never means that CCP is actively covering up J-11 crashes. No sir, never.

Again, your fervent defence of CCP brings tears to my eyes. Such love for fellow human beings.
@Rowdy we have Sai Baba incarnate amongst us:hail::hail:
 

blueblood

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9. O divine power of DSI! Through you we learn to be invisible (stealth), through you inaudible (reducing heat signature, caused by vibrations of molecules hence IR-stealth); and hence we can hold the enemy's fate in our hands.
Aww man, we are so fvkin doomed.....:scared1:
 

Antam1505

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First of all, kudos for keeping your cover intact for 8 hours. A 45 year old Indonesian male passionately defending CCP's armed wing with his very first post on an Indian forum and then some.

People like you make me believe in humanity.

Bars > anything Chinese as of today
Meteor, K-77M/E > PL21 or any other imaginary thing
French/Israeli avionics > Chinese ones. Ask Pakis.



The fact that you cannot differentiate between civilian and military tech, speaks volumes of your knowledge and thus making you a strong contender for my highly coveted "ignore list".

China not just has the fastest super-computer, it also has the world's largest hydel power plant, largest HSR network. You know who doesn't have the dam or the HSR, US of A.

I mean who the hell cares for F-22 when you have the best 5G network.:hehe:
LOL. You dont get the point.

The question is: why you doubt the possibility that China can make decent AESA that even can compete with F-22'a AESA in performance?

If China can chase US in supercomputing, 5G mobile etc, why cant she do the same with AESA?

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying chinese AESA performance is already on par with US. This question is to challenge your logic that deny that possibility.

Is that something difficult for you to discern?

.
Yet, J-31 will shoot down F-35 like a fly according to the AVIC chief. Maybe its the other avionics or engine. Right?
We dont know why the AVIC chief think J-31 can finish F-35. He did not elaborate the reason, hence we cannot judge whether his reason is making sense or not. Therefore this case is irrelevant for your argument.

Would you like to share another gem of a source for this or is it just hot air? Apparently you understood what chief meant but somehow I didn't. Strange because neither of us are Chinese.:tongue2:
LOL. I am trying to tell you that your story about AVIC chief claim is irrelevant with your argument.

One chinese chief /official make claim (regardless the claim is true or not) doesnt mean that every information from China is a mere propaganda as you wish.

Why dont you learn from the case of J-20? China official never state any claim and nobody believe china can build any decent 5th gen a/c, until suddently it appear in public in 2011.


Yawnnnnn. Now you are boring me. China scaring America, fun words but meaningless.

Since you like to take Western official reports pretty seriously here's an ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) report.





Now you go ahead, disagree with this official report and make my day. Avoiding it won't help as I'll post it again.
:lol: :lol:
Who is claiming that China is excelent in every field of military technology?

Why you like to drag irrelevant things just to cover your inability to bring deep analysis and logical argument?

Dont be OOT and stay on the topic!

Offcourse not. It absolutely never means that CCP is actively covering up J-11 crashes. No sir, never.

Again, your fervent defence of CCP brings tears to my eyes. Such love for fellow human beings.
@Rowdy we have Sai Baba incarnate amongst us:hail::hail:
I am not defencing CCP, I am just trying to show your illogical arguments and ignorance due to patriotism and nationalism . :)
 

blueblood

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LOL. You dont get the point.

The question is: why you doubt the possibility that China can make decent AESA that even can compete with F-22'a AESA in performance?

If China can chase US in supercomputing, 5G mobile etc, why cant she do the same with AESA?

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying chinese AESA performance is already on par with US. This question is to challenge your logic that deny that possibility.

Is that something difficult for you to discern?
The fact that you cannot differentiate between civilian and military tech, speaks volumes of your knowledge.

Why u no think this?

I pity the fool who engages you in a conversation.

We dont know why the AVIC chief think J-31 can finish F-35. He did not elaborate the reason, hence we cannot judge whether his reason is making sense or not. Therefore this case is irrelevant for your argument.
Empty rhetoric and face saving exercise.

LOL. I am trying to tell you that your story about AVIC chief claim is irrelevant with your argument.

One chinese chief /official make claim (regardless the claim is true or not) doesnt mean that every information from China is a mere propaganda as you wish.
No it doesn't. China did test WU-14. Only the second nation to do so. Kudos there.

But it also means that I am free to question every single Chinese source from now till the end of times. Because apparently China is also building SUPERSONIC SUBMARINE transversing at 5400 km/hr.

Why dont you learn from the case of J-20? China official never state any claim and nobody believe china can build any decent 5th gen a/c, until suddently it appear in public in 2011.
What is there to learn from J-20? It's pioneering tech in avionics, engine or something else? A nation spending as much as China is bound to get some things right.

:lol: :lol:
Who is claiming that China is excelent in every field of military technology?

Why you like to drag irrelevant things just to cover your inability to bring deep analysis and logical argument?

Dont be OOT and stay on the topic!
China strong. This is what you have harping from your very first post.

I am not defencing CCP, I am just trying to show your illogical arguments and ignorance due to patriotism and nationalism . :)
I am long since a member of a forum (not his one) which does not tolerate even little bit of jingoism and mis-behavior so I would say you are wrong on so many counts.

It is clear as the day that you are a novice and illiterate in the art of conversation and forum etiquette.

The only time you provided links was your very first post which I ripped apart so you didn't bother to post links again and kept on harping your empty rhetoric. So don't bother replying and good day to you.
 

Antam1505

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The fact that you cannot differentiate between civilian and military tech, speaks volumes of your knowledge.

Why u no think this?

I pity the fool who engages you in a conversation.
Nobody say civilian and military tech is the same. Why you keep failing to comprehend?

The fact that you dont get my point speaks your deficient in logical thinking and poor in reading comprehension.

I repeat my question : Why cant you accept the possibility that China also make leap and bounce in some military technology, just as She has proved in the civilian technology?

If China can leap in Supercomputing technology and chase US, why cant she does the same for other field of technology - including in military such as AESA (if she really intend so) ?


Empty rhetoric and face saving exercise.
LOLs. That is your own argument that you can't defend :lol:

No it doesn't. China did test WU-14. Only the second nation to do so. Kudos there.

But it also means that I am free to question every single Chinese source from now till the end of times. Because apparently China is also building SUPERSONIC SUBMARINE transversing at 5400 km/hr.
You should not generalize things.
You should see who is making claim and whether the claim is making sense or not.

What is there to learn from J-20? It's pioneering tech in avionics, engine or something else? A nation spending as much as China is bound to get some things right.
Again you fail to get the point and follow the argumentation after you play some game :lol:

I told you: you should learn that China can give surprise that nobody believe before, and can excel her teacher (Russia).


China strong. This is what you have harping from your very first post.
LOL another idiotic and failure in comprehension and following debate. :laugh:

I am not seeing yet the reason of those who claim MKI is much superior bla bla bla beside jingoistic.
I am not denying yet, but I want to see the reason not jingoistic.

I am long since a member of a forum (not his one) which does not tolerate even little bit of jingoism and mis-behavior so I would say you are wrong on so many counts.

It is clear as the day that you are a novice and illiterate in the art of conversation and forum etiquette.

The only time you provided links was your very first post which I ripped apart so you didn't bother to post links again and kept on harping your empty rhetoric. So don't bother replying and good day to you.
But you fail to answer my challenge/questions about your claim that MKI can beat easily j-11b bla bla bla ..
You are the ones who is making empty claim with superficial analysis and ignorance (of china recent development progress and western analysis).

All you can do is dragging irrelevant point and out of topic.
 

mikhail

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Nobody say civilian and military tech is the same. Why you keep failing to comprehend?

The fact that you dont get my point speaks your deficient in logical thinking and poor in reading comprehension.

I repeat my question : Why cant you accept the possibility that China also make leap and bounce in some military technology, just as She has proved in the civilian technology?

If China can leap in Supercomputing technology and chase US, why cant she does the same for other field of technology - including in military such as AESA (if she really intend so) ?




LOLs. That is your own argument that you can't defend :lol:



You should not generalize things.
You should see who is making claim and whether the claim is making sense or not.



Again you fail to get the point and follow the argumentation after you play some game :lol:

I told you: you should learn that China can give surprise that nobody believe before, and can excel her teacher (Russia).




LOL another idiotic and failure in comprehension and following debate. :laugh:

I am not seeing yet the reason of those who claim MKI is much superior bla bla bla beside jingoistic.
I am not denying yet, but I want to see the reason not jingoistic.



But you fail to answer my challenge/questions about your claim that MKI can beat easily j-11b bla bla bla ..
You are the ones who is making empty claim with superficial analysis and ignorance (of china recent development progress and western analysis).

All you can do is dragging irrelevant point and out of topic.
Sorry buddy but we simply don't believe that the Chinkis has made any technological leap over the Russkies as far as the defense industry is concerned because it's simply isn't possible considering the fact that the Chinkis are only good at copying Russian tech. and nothing else:lol:.Heck they still haven't been able to manufacture their own turbofan engine and hence still has to rely on the AL-31F engine for their "indigenous" J-11B:pound: .They simply lack the innovation to make something state of the art out of their own and even their copies are inferior to the original Soviet/Russian products.Ask any pilot(barring the Pakis and the Chinkis) whether he will choose between a Su-30 MKI and a J-11B and i am sure that you'll get your answer within a couple of seconds:wink:.
 

Antam1505

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Sorry buddy but we simply don't believe that the Chinkis has made any technological leap over the Russkies as far as the defense industry is concerned because it's simply isn't possible considering the fact that the Chinkis are only good at copying Russian tech. and nothing else:lol:.Heck they still haven't been able to manufacture their own turbofan engine and hence still has to rely on the AL-31F engine for their "indigenous" J-11B:pound: .They simply lack the innovation to make something state of the art out of their own and even their copies are inferior to the original Soviet/Russian products.Ask any pilot(barring the Pakis and the Chinkis) whether he will choose between a Su-30 MKI and a J-11B and i am sure that you'll get your answer within a couple of seconds:wink:.
Blind fate.
The fact is not in line with what you want to believe.

Russia has not been able to install AESA radar on her latest and most advanced a/c SU35.
Not successful in 5th gen a/c PAKFA
left in supercomputing, semiconductor, software etc.

China has innovated while india even cannot simply copy.
 

mikhail

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Blind fate.
The fact is not in line with what you want to believe.

Russia has not been able to install AESA radar on her latest and most advanced a/c SU35.
Not successful in 5th gen a/c PAKFA
left in supercomputing, semiconductor, software etc.

China has innovated while india even cannot simply copy.
Buddy,are you trying to pull up facts from your behind:pound:!!"Chinkis are innovating" on what field:rofl:!Man,they can't even design a proper turbofan engine let alone a fighter size AESA radar.They are known throughout the world for their slimy behaviour and blatantly copying from the others.They are known for innumerable copyright infringements and hence nobody not even Russia is willing to sell them any new weapons like the Su-35M which the Chinkis want so dearly for copying it's 117S-Saturn engine for their J-XX series rip offs:lol:.India on the other hand,is an honest and respectable customer in the international marketwho has got an impeccable record of following all the rules of copyrighting and hence everybody from the U.S. to the Russkies and even the Japanese are willing to sell their state of the art weaponry to us.Hence there is no need for us to copy unlike the chinkis whom nobody believe in this world due to their slimy behavior.When you can get access to all the latest weaponry along with the ToT then there is no reason to re-invent the wheel.The only thing that we need is Green U.S. $ which we have in abundance in our disposal :hat:!!
 

Antam1505

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Buddy,are you trying to pull up facts from your behind:pound:!!"Chinkis are innovating" on what field:rofl:!Man,they can't even design a proper turbofan engine let alone a fighter size AESA radar.They are known throughout the world for their slimy behaviour and blatantly copying from the others.They are known for innumerable copyright infringements and hence nobody not even Russia is willing to sell them any new weapons like the Su-35M which the Chinkis want so dearly for copying it's 117S-Saturn engine for their J-XX series rip offs:lol:.India on the other hand,is an honest and respectable customer in the international marketwho has got an impeccable record of following all the rules of copyrighting and hence everybody from the U.S. to the Russkies and even the Japanese are willing to sell their state of the art weaponry to us.Hence there is no need for us to copy unlike the chinkis whom nobody believe in this world due to their slimy behavior.When you can get access to all the latest weaponry along with the ToT then there is no reason to re-invent the wheel.The only thing that we need is Green U.S. $ which we have in abundance in our disposal :hat:!!
On what field are china innovative? So many! Your ignorance is so pathetic dude :rofl:

Educate yourself:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/02/07/its-official-china-is-becoming-a-new-innovation-powerhouse/
http://www.wired.com/2014/07/chinas-innovation-outstripped-follow-fast-reputation/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303819704579320544231396168

Do you know who lead the supercomputing technology now? and high speed train now? 5G telco? Biotech? and many more to mention.

If you say J-11B and J-16 are mere copy paste, then how come the copy paste is more excellent than the original one (SU-27 and SU-30)? Why the mere copy paste has AESA and smaller RCS and lighter than the original??

Wake up from denial and start to see facts dude :lol:

And why you compare with india? india is nowhere near China - generation behind. The LCA is only 3rd generation a/c and even not succeed. :lol:
 

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