satish007
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only engine, we are catching up composite, and France has been helping us with avionic and radar for years, we have surpass Russia.
J-11BS vs Su-30MKI
- Thread starter indochina
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Oh no, you misunderstand, I just want to compare between two opponents (maybe) in the future of each other (J-11B/BS and Su-30MKI).
So in your mind J-11Bs to win in the three modes:
Dogfight
WVR
BVR
I have a small question, Su-30MKI Sukhoi Super is a version of the Su-30MKI2 or MKI3?Super Su30 doesn't fix anything but it upgrades the capabilities of Su-30MKI. Ever heard MLUs (mid-life upgrades)?. It will have AESA, better avionics and better weapons systems like long-range stand-off missile as well as Brahmos. Since Brahmos is heavy (2.5 tonne), it needs special hardening of the hard points on the air craft.
Now please don't compare Su30MKI to the J-10 junk.
You can compare your J-10BSpound: at BS) to Su-30MKI when it can do these maneuvers
Su 30 Extreme Maneuvers "Super Cobra" - YouTube
Back to the topic, we are talking about the Su-30MKI is not the Super Sukhoi to compete with the F-15SE (stealth eagle). As I mentioned, J-11BS will have the opportunity at long range (BVR). Su-30MKI is great, but the ultra-portable or TVC does not help in the long range, and the Chinese also successfully designed RAM RCS reduction for their J-11B lower level common Flanker rumors 3m ^ 2.Su-30MKI is the very large to be detected (plus with duck wings design) about 10m ^ 2
China than India in self-designed radar, engine, however you never published, while India has the best support from Russia, Israel and France. Furthermore, your weapons PL-12 and PL-21 are rumors, both RAM and RCS.Detection parameters secret course
J11BS works as Trainer first...it's the replacement of Su27UBK....so:
1. no AESA for J11BS ...the 14XX radar is a slot-array antennas doppler radar
2. I'm afraid the current WS10 model on J11B/BS is a 12500 KG level engine...
3. the avionics of J11B/BS should be at the same level as J10A ...and I don't think the Avionics of both J11B/BS and MKI have a generation difference
4. the biggest improvement and achievement of this model---J11BS is the full digital FWB system...
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it might be better to learn more and get the fact correct first for some new member.
1. china published quite a lot models of radar already...you don't know coz you can't search the info in Chinese....and obviously we won't bring everything here
2. PL12 has been in service for decade and the current model in production is improved PL12B ..such 'rumor' statement is quite funny indeed....
3. J11BS is a trainer....i don't think you make the right comparation here.
GromHellscream
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The best air dominance fighter owned by Asian countries right now is South Korean's F15K, whose package is very up-to-date and have a brand new airframe.
If Su35BM enters in Russia's operational fleet in near future, it can be arguably compared to the US teen-NGs.
If we talk about fighters for air combats only, f16 latest blks from S.K, Taiwan and Paki, f15k from S.K, Tyhoon from oil countries are obviously better than Su30mki.
Vietnam's Su30mkv is similar to Su30mkk, both are designed as strike platforms.
We don't use birds with enforced airframes (means dead weight) for air-combat role.
If Su35BM enters in Russia's operational fleet in near future, it can be arguably compared to the US teen-NGs.
If we talk about fighters for air combats only, f16 latest blks from S.K, Taiwan and Paki, f15k from S.K, Tyhoon from oil countries are obviously better than Su30mki.
Vietnam's Su30mkv is similar to Su30mkk, both are designed as strike platforms.
We don't use birds with enforced airframes (means dead weight) for air-combat role.
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we must not forgot that russian products for exports are usually downgraded
the MKI might be as good as the older su 27 for russian air force.
the MKI might be as good as the older su 27 for russian air force.
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India will qualitatively have much better aircraft than any Chinese or Pakistani aircraft it will face. IAF will rule the skies.
Capabilities of Chinese avionics, composites and radars is not known. The fact is that Pakistanis tried to ditch Chinese avionics and weapons in JF-17 and go for French avionics but they were too expensive for the Pakis to afford it. So, they are stuck with cheap chinese avionics and weapons.
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That's the problem when you close your brain for information.
Su-30MKI is even better than the Russian Su-30s. We customised Su-30MKI with best of all words - French & Israeli avionics and EW systems and Russian bird.
GromHellscream
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MKI is much better than those older Su27, which are generally retired from first line units both in Russia and China.
You can see it this way, Su30MKI is the export version used to iron out all bugs as tech-demonstraters and then it becomes a matured product purchased by Russians themselves.
It looked like a fishing project in the very beginning, but resulted in a very good ending in the end.
GromHellscream
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PAF has no choice but stick with Chinese avionics, because all the avionics are set as unreplacable in the integrated frame as a sales trick.
The frame is similar to those on Rafale as CAC just learned it from Dassault, but of course with less capable subsystems. Money talks.
Weapons is another story, with the core codes, they can add whatever they want.
Well you may be confused with F-15K Eagle Stealth, because the F-15K is just a version of the F15C like F15J joke with the Su-30MKI. If you have the Stealth Eagle, Indian Super Sukhoi. I am sure that it (Super Sukhoi) similar to the Su-35.
About Red Flag air combat exercise between the Indian Air Force to use Su-30MKI absolute victory before the American F-15 pilots controls.
Su-30MK2V and Su-30MKK near the same, we are Russians reinforced fuselage to carry more weapons, the main role of Su-30MK2V anti-ship
Clearly, Russia and India are now the world's No. 1 fighter, called SU-30MKI Vectored Thrust with the Canards (ducks model). The "duck" of the winglets in front of the main wings as well as behind the pilot's compartment sits, making SU-30MK fighters made the unprecedented actions in aeronautical engineering as upright suspended suspended in the air, almost like flying upside down, turn sharp, bring the belly before etc. ..
Su-30 is likely to fall by the tail down before without losing momentum (stall), as well as to escape from freefall circle (spin) in less than a minute.
Currently no fighter has such technical and this is NATO worried about this aircraft will be sold to the country?
Institute for the U.S. Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory technical reviews is Vectored Thrust and Canards are the latest concept to help improve the skills of fighters and current research in the U.S. is still within or limited use . Meanwhile, the Russian aviation industry has made and put into application successfully.
Sewing a son for Russia and the Cold War ended.
J-11B is a cross between Su-30MKK and Su-27SK, J-11B is an offshoot of the Flanker family system (the Russians do not recognize)
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I would be allowed to add additional information, JF-17 uses Russian engines (RD-93)
Su-27 India does not exist (my knowledge). China maintains units Su-27SK and J-11A (Su-27 made "‹"‹in china)
the biggest enemy of mankind is :Ignorant and arrogant....
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the current 3 AESA fighter radar projects already publiced in chinese media:
1.the first mass production AESA radar from China Radar and Avionics research institute began the onboard flying test in Aug 2007 and passed this key test in Apr 2008...this one is for J10B project
2. the competion for choosing a AESA radar for J20 Project ended in Nov 2010...the winner was another famous research Institute of Jiangsu Province...and this model has been fit on the J20 PT2002.
3. Last year --2012, 6XX institue won the AESA radar contract for the third one: J16 project...
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PESA radar project...
1. the first PESA Radar from 1X research Institute lost in the competion of J10B's radar project(lost to the AESA design) ...but It got the chance to be fitted on the one of the J10B prototypes for some test....I thought most senior members here might have seen it before.
since this model lost in the competion and was not classified any more, we could see the prototype model in the Chinese Aviation Musium in Beijing since 2011. if you have a chance to pay a visit to Beijing. don't miss it, it's on the second floor...
tracking 10 , targeting 4 at the same time
2. but the improved model of this PESA Radar project might be get its chance on shipboard aircraft project --J15 Flying Shark. we would see the result soon.
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GromHellscream
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I doubt 14th institute is too shame to reveal their AESA radars any soon, because those are direct copys of APG seriers ...
Blackwater
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Earlier SU-30 were update version of su-27,without canards and TVC
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Your never fielded AESA, actually a PESA, headed straight for the museum.since this model lost in the competion and was not classified any more, we could see the prototype model in the Chinese Aviation Musium in Beijing since 2011. if you have a chance to pay a visit to Beijing. don't miss it, it's on the second floor...
tracking 10 , targeting 4 at the same time
2. but the improved model of this PESA Radar project might be get its chance on shipboard aircraft project --J15 Flying Shark. we would see the result soon.
binayak95
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Chinese wet dreams!Your never fielded AESA, actually a PESA, headed straight for the museum.
p2prada
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So that was a PESA.
Anyway, I think OP is trying to compare J-11B to MKI. BS is the trainer version.
MKI is a 18.5 tonnes aircraft compared to 16.5 tonnes on J-11A and B.
MKI has some advantages here. First off is the radar. Bars is the better one compared to the one on J-11B.
The engine is better and comes with TVC.
By now there shouldn't be major differences in other avionics since even MKI is one and a half decades old. As a newer development J-11B may have some slight advantages in composites, but that shouldn't be a big deal.
The engine and radar alone are massive advantages. As for weapons, Russia has a track record, China, we will see once SD-10B is revealed with proper specs.
MKI has a two pilot advantage. The MKI can effectively act as a network node because the WSO can take battlespace command and share the workload with another WSO in the formation. Combine the pilot with a very good radar, the WSO can specify targets, prioritize, navigate, gauge the opponents strength, find weaknesses etc without having to risk AWACS doing the same in a high threat environment. At the same time the pilot is free to fly the bird without problems.
So, overall advantage lies with the MKI. But the Chinese have strength in numbers and may catch up in terms of technology over the next decade.
Let's see what the Super MKI program has to offer. As of today we know there will be avionics upgrades, but it is yet unknown if there will be engine upgrades. An engine upgrade will push the scale in MKIs favor by a massive extent.
Only US and France have operational AESA radars today.
Anyway, I think OP is trying to compare J-11B to MKI. BS is the trainer version.
MKI is a 18.5 tonnes aircraft compared to 16.5 tonnes on J-11A and B.
MKI has some advantages here. First off is the radar. Bars is the better one compared to the one on J-11B.
The engine is better and comes with TVC.
By now there shouldn't be major differences in other avionics since even MKI is one and a half decades old. As a newer development J-11B may have some slight advantages in composites, but that shouldn't be a big deal.
The engine and radar alone are massive advantages. As for weapons, Russia has a track record, China, we will see once SD-10B is revealed with proper specs.
MKI has a two pilot advantage. The MKI can effectively act as a network node because the WSO can take battlespace command and share the workload with another WSO in the formation. Combine the pilot with a very good radar, the WSO can specify targets, prioritize, navigate, gauge the opponents strength, find weaknesses etc without having to risk AWACS doing the same in a high threat environment. At the same time the pilot is free to fly the bird without problems.
So, overall advantage lies with the MKI. But the Chinese have strength in numbers and may catch up in terms of technology over the next decade.
Let's see what the Super MKI program has to offer. As of today we know there will be avionics upgrades, but it is yet unknown if there will be engine upgrades. An engine upgrade will push the scale in MKIs favor by a massive extent.
Only US and France have operational AESA radars today.
