It's Sukhoi vs Eurofighter as IAF 'takes on' RAF

[Armand2REP]

It isn't scripted.. there is an electronic battlefield. Scripting would be a waste of everyone's time.

 

[ace009]

It is pronounced Raf-all

Really - like RAF (Royal Air Force) - all?? I did not know that the French had such a high regard for the RAF. I know they rescued you during the WW-II and all, but naming a whole combat aircraft after them?

 

[p2prada]

It isn't scripted.. there is an electronic battlefield. Scripting would be a waste of everyone's time.

That's the problem with small and large scale exercises. It is mainly training in the tactical level and not strategic level. Meaning the result of the exercises and the lessons learnt is good in the tactical level and helps Colonel rank and below to learn new things. It is of no use whatsoever to Brigadier ranks and above.

In all exercises it is the host country which sets rules that is most favourable to itself. It's like in CI-2004 where the rules favoured IAF. Like in Garuda we all know that Rafale had the smallest RCS and it is very very small compared to all other aircraft in the game. By avoiding the use of ECM systems whatever advantage the MKI and F-16 had were lost. So, it is a game of cat and mouse where the Rafale is the cat. Also considering the fact that French BVR is limited by range, MKI and F-16 pilots with R-77 and Aim-120C had to limit BVR shots to nominal ranges of less than 50Km to match French BVR capability. Considering Rafale had a tiny RCS with clean loads as was the case in the exercises taking shots would have been really hard. This is what makes the exercise scripted.

It's only at red flag that the host keeps itself at a disadvantage. But in those type of exercises the winner and loser is already decided.

Scripting is done in order to highlight the strength and weakness of the weapon system as well as the training. This is one of the primary reasons why fanboys love exercises while the main military gurus on forums actually show no interest in these type of exercises. However everybody likes the photos.

 

[Armand2REP]

There might be some truth in a French advantage as the aggressors were in our best planes while the sorties we gave India and Singapore were only bombers, however our M2000D pilots relied on F-16s and MKIs to provide air cover for the missions. Which just happens to be the best planes of those two countries. The intention was to show India what the Rafale and M2000-5 can do. There were no limits on BVR range, the MICA is only 10km less than the two opposing missiles and with the reduced RCS of Rafale and the skill of M2000-5 pilots, were able to get their kills despite the power of N011. We weren't going to go easy on them if that was what you were expecting.

 

[p2prada]

There might be some truth in a French advantage as the aggressors were in our best planes while the sorties we gave India and Singapore were only bombers, however our M2000D pilots relied on F-16s and MKIs to provide air cover for the missions. Which just happens to be the best planes of those two countries.

You could just call it a learning exercise rather than a competition. Now if you think Rafale Mirage-2000 combo was deadly, imagine a Flanker Rafale combo.

The intention was to show India what the Rafale and M2000-5 can do. There were no limits on BVR range, the MICA is only 10km less than the two opposing missiles and with the reduced RCS of Rafale and the skill of M2000-5 pilots, were able to get their kills despite the power of N011. We weren't going to go easy on them if that was what you were expecting.

It is not a question of going easy or not.

The R-77 out performs the Mica and so does the Aim-120. Seeker performance is more or less equivalent in exercises. There are always BVR limits in exercises, either in shot range or various conditions required in taking a shot. For eg: the Rafale is told it can take shots at high speed while they might tell the Mirage-2000 to take shots at sub sonic speeds at lower altitudes. The MKI may be asked to take shots only at certain altitudes while the F-16 may be denied BVR shots all together. Ranges may be curtailed too.

The problem with these exercises is that they do not take 100% real conditions in taking BVR shots because no air force will want to reveal their moves to a third party air force even if they are friendly and that's one of the reasons why most exercises end up with a dog fight after every engagement. Considering our radar wasn't at it's fullest will kill it's performance against the Rafale's advanced jammer. However jamming the bars without a dedicated EW aircraft or ground based mobile jammer will not be easy at all.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Unfortunately we didn't get to see MKI's TVC, but Mirages were "leaping" on it in the first minute of engagement. N011 might be powerful, but it doesn't compete with an AWACs which backed up both sides. India has AWACs but can't use them with MKI except by voice which is what happened at Garuda IV.

certainly not an exclusive awacs but the su-30mki can act as a mini awacs in in warlike conditions.also some of the press articles say that the mki suffers from overweight conditions(39 tons).the mki was intended to be a heavy fighter from the design phase itself.also some analysts say that the rcs of mki is huge but mki was never intended to be a stealth fighter something which the pak-fa is.the mki can also launch the novator k-100 awacs killer which has a range of 400km.the rafael and eurofighter are medium multirole fighter and are of the same class as f-16 and mig-29.

 

[Armand2REP]

c mki can also launch the novator k-100 awacs killer which has a range of 400km.the rafael and eurofighter are medium multirole fighter and are of the same class as f-16 and mig-29.

There is no Novator, it was never built. Rafale and Eurofighter are half a generation ahead of F-16s and MiG-29s.