Issues with WS-10A engine mean China can't power J-15, J-16

Ray

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Good move by PRC.

On the other hand, we are trying to buy ships from South Korea.

I fail to understand why India's isn't offering to sell helicopter carriers to Russia, considering India has fairly good expertise in this field, and in return, get Kuznetsov to set up a turbine facility in India.

I wonder whether PRC now will have to use imported engines like India is doing with the GE F-414. At least, PRC is trying to pay back in kind, unlike India, which is paying cash.
Mitsubishi may buy stake in L&T Shipbuilding

"Mitsubishi Heavy Industries plans to acquire a stake in L&T Shipbuilding within a few years to secure its first shipbuilding base overseas," Hisashi Hara, head of shipbuilding and ocean development of Mitsubishi was quoted as saying by Japanese media while presenting the company's business plan on Wednesday.


L&T Shipbuilding, a subsidiary of domestic infrastructure major, Larsen and Toubro signed an agreement in December last year with Mitsubishi for technological assistance, ranging from design drawings to quality control.....

."The only logical reason why L&T will look to sell some stake to Mitsubishi is to help the company while bidding for defence projects," ....

In 2011, the government agreed to allow public private partnerships in the defence sector and Mazagon Dock was the first to get off the block. At stake are defence contracts worth thousands of crores of rupees to build the Indian Navy's requirement of warships in the coming years....

L&T shipbuilding has established shipbuilding facilities at Hazira in Gujarat and is also developing a shipyard at Kattupalli, near Chennai in Tamil Nadu. L&T and Mitsubishi also operate two joint ventures to manufacture power-related equipment, including super-critical boilers, and steam turbines and generators, which they signed in 2007.

Mitsubishi may buy stake in L&T Shipbuilding - Economic Times
Things are falling in place.
 

Punya Pratap

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why ? since you claim , then you prove that is a "the earlier models that were powered by Al 31"....LOL...
I had only seen the other picture and not this one which has a better view of the engine unlike the other one that has a better view of PL 8 & PL 12 which I could recognise so do not go questioning my ability... as it is I doubt if anyone can point out the engines here by just visual cues !!

as some senior member has pointed out... you even can't recognize AL31 and WS10 before you made stupid points.... LOL.
I rest my case on this point.... so no comments!!

I asked you to give me a proof since you are the one who is falsifying the data (through links) I have provided... With China we dont know where facts end and fiction starts!

If you have any data or proofs than please share.... I m open to changing my opinion other wise stop trolling!!
 

Ray

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I had only seen the other picture and not this one which has a better view of the engine unlike the other one that has a better view of PL 8 & PL 12 which I could recognise so do not go questioning my ability... as it is I doubt if anyone can point out the engines here by just visual cues !!


I rest my case on this point.... so no comments!!

I asked you to give me a proof since you are the one who is falsifying the data (through links) I have provided... With China we dont know where facts end and fiction starts!

If you have any data or proofs than please share.... I m open to changing my opinion other wise stop trolling!!
Proof?

You ask a Middle Kingdom chap for proof?

Do you know that they don't give proof since what they say is God's Own gonads or Glands that make sex hormones, with sun shining out of their terminal portion of the digestive tube?
 
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Punya Pratap

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Proof?

You ask a Middle Kingdom chap for proof?

Do you know that they don't give proof since what they say is God's Own gonads or Glands that make sex hormones, with sun shining out of their terminal portion of the digestive tube?
Thank you Sir for showing me my folly..... Sorry shiphone no proof needed and whatever you say goes !!
 

shiphone

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I had only seen the other picture and not this one which has a better view of the engine unlike the other one that has a better view of PL 8 & PL 12 which I could recognise so do not go questioning my ability... as it is I doubt if anyone can point out the engines here by just visual cues !!
your Inability is your own problem, your funny 'doubt' is another proof of the 'Inability'....

the' ability' means not only the related Knowledge, but also the willing and methodology to learn...

post #1129 of this thread http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/18153-china-military-news-updates-82.html has been provided the link in the original LCA thread (#3432 post of http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-229.html) to suggest you to have a read..

if the P8 or P3 shot #24 J11B image was not that clear, would you please tell me whether these two (#8 and #20#) J11B/BS of PLAN aviation were powered by AL31F or WS10?
can you Identify the "nozzle of AL31F" or not, since MKI is flying with AL31FP.

 
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Punya Pratap

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your Inability is your own problem, your funny 'doubt' is another proof of the 'Inability'....

the' ability' means not only the related Knowledge, but also the willing and methodology to learn...

post #1129 of this thread http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/18153-china-military-news-updates-82.html has been provided the link in the original LCA thread (#3432 post of http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-229.html) to suggest you to have a read..

if the P8 or P3 shot #24 J11B image was not that clear, would you please tell me whether these two (#8 and #20#) J11B/BS of PLAN aviation were powered by AL31F or WS10?
can you Identify the "nozzle of AL31F" or not, since MKI is flying with AL31FP.
Shiphone the AL 31 engine nozzle flaps are longer where as W 10 are shorter..... that is the only visual cue.

Please dont get tedious regarding terminology and dont tell me what ability / inability implies !

As a very senior poster mentioned you can never get anything out of China so its useless to indulge in inanities with you !

As I mentioned earlier also the post I had put up regarding China's troubles during engine development was to point out that engine development troubles are nt limited to Kaveri alone but you had to butt in and drag the entire conversation to an opposite end. However I have wasted enough energy with you so please dont sabotage my arguments in Tejas
 

shiphone

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Shiphone the AL 31 engine nozzle flaps are longer where as W 10 are shorter..... that is the only visual cue.
oh...so finally you decided to swallow your words back...that's a good start...

as it is I doubt if anyone can point out the engines here by just visual cues !!
and as a prize for this , I would like to provide a "very reliable source" to support your new discovery....LOL...anyway, an image tells thousands words...

...the J11A test bed for WS10 engine...the left is AL31 ,and the right is WS10...the visual difference is very obvious..


but "the AL 31 engine nozzle flaps are longer" is not completely correct now ...after 2012, new batch of WS10A engine were delivered to power the newly built J11B/BS. the new feature is the elongated After-burner section, the WS10A looks no longer shooter than the AL31...

...the above: one of the first and only batch of J11B with AL31....the below: one new J11BS from the third J11B unit of PLAAF...

-----------------------------

As a very senior poster mentioned you can never get anything out of China so its useless to indulge in inanities with you !
another baseless charge to cover up your nonconfidence and inability via lies??? such slander won't win any respect but disdain here...LOL... my posts and threads are always here, you are free to search and read... and this thread reminds me one of my earlier post to reply other members and that happend to be also WS10 engine related...

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/military-aviation/24971-chengdu-j-10-vigorous-dragon-8.html#post800204

funny...LOL..PLA AirForce Museum in Beijing has a pair of retired WS10' Prototype and AL31F for display. most times, one image could tell thounds of words, which could easily beat those cheap baseless empty talk...



LOL...
1.which is the "official Chinese source"? name it...
2.in china ,a squadron of fighters normaly mean 4 jets formation...LOL...I know you may mean "Fighter regiment'(you should know this well,coz you came from an Ex-Soviet nation),but a J11/11B regiment normaly owns 24 birds(20 single seat,+4 trainers),and a PLAN Aviation regiment would got 16 single seat+8 two seaters. so called 2 regiment of jets would be more than 40....LOL...your souce said this?
3.would you tell us the so called "two test squadrons" Unit designation(which regiment, which Divison,which AFB?)...and When this happened? since you have so called 'official Chinese sources'...LOL...
4.most of J11B(so far 5 regiments , more than 120 J11B/BS in total ) use the WS10A Taihang Engine, but None of 105 jets of J11A use the WS10A Except one ----the China Test Flight Establishment--CTFE's No.522 J11(Factory number 0012-- the 12th jet of first batch of locally assembled Su27)...the refit job of WS10A(one engine only) on this bird took place in the Aug 1998. then the test flight began

the only J11A with WS10........LOL.....again, 'two squadrones' of such birds?. another lie and joke here...
--------------------------------------

As I mentioned earlier also the post I had put up regarding China's troubles during engine development was to point out that engine development troubles are nt limited to Kaveri alone but you had to butt in and drag the entire conversation to an opposite end. However I have wasted enough energy with you so please dont sabotage my arguments in Tejas
.should I repeat again?

no lesson from the faked news and none-existing reality.

if I were Indian ,I would support the LCA and Kaveri as well and tried to find excuses for them here and there. and every one want to support their views and conclusions with Solid proof. but the key is : the so called proof is a Correct one, a Real one... it's really very funny to see someone self-comforting there with Illusory image...LOL

you'd better have a study about American Engine development history ,coz it was well recorded and very informative , I'm quite sure you would learn a lot from it to save the LCA and Kareri...most of all, these stuff is in English... leave China stuff away ,coz the language barrier would be first problem, and this would save loads of your energy and my time...cheers,
 
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Punya Pratap

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oh...so finally you decided to swallow your words back...that's a good start...



and as a prize for this , I would like to provide a "very reliable source" to support your new discovery....LOL...anyway, an image tells thousands words...

...the J11A test bed for WS10 engine...the left is AL31 ,and the right is WS10...the visual difference is very obvious..


but "the AL 31 engine nozzle flaps are longer" is not completely correct now ...after 2012, new batch of WS10A engine were delivered to power the newly built J11B/BS. the new feature is the elongated After-burner section, the WS10A looks no longer shooter than the AL31...

...the above: one of the first and only batch of J11B with AL31....the below: one new J11BS from the third J11B unit of PLAAF...

-----------------------------



another baseless charge to cover up your nonconfidence and inability via lies??? such slander won't win any respect but disdain here...LOL... my posts and threads are always here, you are free to search and read... and this thread reminds me one of my earlier post to reply other members and that happend to be also WS10 engine related...

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/military-aviation/24971-chengdu-j-10-vigorous-dragon-8.html#post800204



--------------------------------------



.should I repeat again?

no lesson from the faked news and none-existing reality.

if I were Indian ,I would support the LCA and Kaveri as well and tried to find excuses for them here and there. and every one want to support their views and conclusions with Solid proof. but the key is : the so called proof is a Correct one, a Real one... it's really very funny to see someone self-comforting there with Illusory image...LOL

you'd better have a study about American Engine development history ,coz it was well recorded and very informative , I'm quite sure you would learn a lot from it to save the LCA and Kareri...most of all, these stuff is in English... leave China stuff away ,coz the language barrier would be first problem, and this would save loads of your energy and my time...cheers,



The last bit is very well received and I appreciate your advice. I have been having a long pending discourse with people for supporting domestic arms development including the LCA & Kaveri. As an example I cited China and its growing self reliance in domestic arms to which some posters said that the case of China is a lot different as your industry is more developed.... I had given lots of arguments for developing domestic industry etc. I said China has also had its problems same as India is having with LCA/Kaveri ... as a case in point I put out the WS 10 and even if Kaveri was to fail we need to still pursue a domestic engine program the same way China went from WS 6 to WS 10.

I hope I m clear now!
Thanks for the info.... you should have posted these links earlier too instead of dragging an argument.
 

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