Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

plugwater

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Much better video.

 
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Oracle

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/\/\/\ Thank you very much IBRIS and Manc for the videos. Members here who were whining can now come to a logical debate or STFU.
 

Singh

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Understanding Israel's response to the flotilla



Making Israel look bad doesn't help the Palestinians

The organisers of the "Freedom Flotilla"—a convoy of ships that intended to bust the Israeli blockade of Gaza—presented the Israeli government with a stark choice: stop the convoy and lose the global PR battle, or permit it and lose that and a whole lot more. In the event, it is not surprising that Israel chose the first option—and just lose the PR battle.

Was Israel's reaction—its forces killed 10 activists and injured several more—disproportionate? That's a difficult judgement to make. After all, what is a proportionate response to deter non-state actors from violating its authority without any fear of consequences? If, instead of a 'flotilla', some state's navy had attempted to violate the blockade, it would well have been interpreted as an act of war. Why should non-state actors be treated differently? The Israeli government was justified in preventing non-state actors from challenging its authority.

But could Israel's reaction have been less forceful? Could the Israelis have turned the ships back without using lethal force? Perhaps yes. If you go by the official Israeli version of events, that is exactly what they say they first attempted. They used lethal force only when the activists on the ship put up a fight. The flotilla's floaters might deny this and argue that they didn't expect violence. This is disingenuous. It is also unbelievable. They should have foreseen such a scenario before putting civilian activists in harm's way. It is unclear if there were unambiguous rules of engagement, communicated to the activists and to the Israeli authorities. In the event, the organisers cannot escape their part of the responsibility for the unfortunate casualties.

For their part, the organisers of the convoy won the global PR battle. To what end, though? It's not as if the Palestinian case needs to be made to the world's governments (even if it has to be made for another generation of television audiences). The solution to the age-old Israel-Palestinian conflict involves compromises that both sides have to make, which the rest of the world can then support. Actions by outsiders that encourage both sides to compromise are helpful. Actions that attempt to paint one side of the conflict as the villain are not. Infuriating the Israeli government might allow the flotilla's organisers to score political points and make the Israeli government look bad in front of the world's television audiences. But it is unlikely to make it any easier for the Israeli government to make the difficult compromises necessary to move towards a solution.

As Yaakov Katz, a commentator in the Jerusalem Post concludes:

Let's not fool ourselves. Even if Israel allowed these ships and all such ships to dock in Gaza City's harbor, it would still be accused of laying siege to the Palestinians in the Strip since, albeit along with Egypt, it controls the land crossings.

In the end, after all, the flotilla is just another chapter in an international campaign to chip away at Israel's legitimate right to defend itself. [Jerusalem Post]
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2010/05/31/understanding-israels-response-to-the-flotilla/
 

nandu

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Flotillas and the Wars of Public Opinion

On Sunday, Israeli naval forces intercepted the ships of a Turkish nongovernmental organization (NGO) delivering humanitarian supplies to Gaza. Israel had demanded that the vessels not go directly to Gaza but instead dock in Israeli ports, where the supplies would be offloaded and delivered to Gaza. The Turkish NGO refused, insisting on going directly to Gaza. Gunfire ensued when Israeli naval personnel boarded one of the vessels, and a significant number of the passengers and crew on the ship were killed or wounded.

Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon charged that the mission was simply an attempt to provoke the Israelis. That was certainly the case. The mission was designed to demonstrate that the Israelis were unreasonable and brutal. The hope was that Israel would be provoked to extreme action, further alienating Israel from the global community and possibly driving a wedge between Israel and the United States. The operation's planners also hoped this would trigger a political crisis in Israel.

A logical Israeli response would have been avoiding falling into the provocation trap and suffering the political repercussions the Turkish NGO was trying to trigger. Instead, the Israelis decided to make a show of force. The Israelis appear to have reasoned that backing down would demonstrate weakness and encourage further flotillas to Gaza, unraveling the Israeli position vis-à-vis Hamas. In this thinking, a violent interception was a superior strategy to accommodation regardless of political consequences. Thus, the Israelis accepted the bait and were provoked.

The 'Exodus' Scenario

In the 1950s, an author named Leon Uris published a book called "Exodus." Later made into a major motion picture, Exodus told the story of a Zionist provocation against the British. In the wake of World War II, the British — who controlled Palestine, as it was then known — maintained limits on Jewish immigration there. Would-be immigrants captured trying to run the blockade were detained in camps in Cyprus. In the book and movie, Zionists planned a propaganda exercise involving a breakout of Jews — mostly children — from the camp, who would then board a ship renamed the Exodus. When the Royal Navy intercepted the ship, the passengers would mount a hunger strike. The goal was to portray the British as brutes finishing the work of the Nazis. The image of children potentially dying of hunger would force the British to permit the ship to go to Palestine, to reconsider British policy on immigration, and ultimately to decide to abandon Palestine and turn the matter over to the United Nations.

There was in fact a ship called Exodus, but the affair did not play out precisely as portrayed by Uris, who used an amalgam of incidents to display the propaganda war waged by the Jews. Those carrying out this war had two goals. The first was to create sympathy in Britain and throughout the world for Jews who, just a couple of years after German concentration camps, were now being held in British camps. Second, they sought to portray their struggle as being against the British. The British were portrayed as continuing Nazi policies toward the Jews in order to maintain their empire. The Jews were portrayed as anti-imperialists, fighting the British much as the Americans had.

It was a brilliant strategy. By focusing on Jewish victimhood and on the British, the Zionists defined the battle as being against the British, with the Arabs playing the role of people trying to create the second phase of the Holocaust. The British were portrayed as pro-Arab for economic and imperial reasons, indifferent at best to the survivors of the Holocaust. Rather than restraining the Arabs, the British were arming them. The goal was not to vilify the Arabs but to villify the British, and to position the Jews with other nationalist groups whether in India or Egypt rising against the British.

The precise truth or falsehood of this portrayal didn't particularly matter. For most of the world, the Palestine issue was poorly understood and not a matter of immediate concern. The Zionists intended to shape the perceptions of a global public with limited interest in or understanding of the issues, filling in the blanks with their own narrative. And they succeeded.

The success was rooted in a political reality. Where knowledge is limited, and the desire to learn the complex reality doesn't exist, public opinion can be shaped by whoever generates the most powerful symbols. And on a matter of only tangential interest, governments tend to follow their publics' wishes, however they originate. There is little to be gained for governments in resisting public opinion and much to be gained by giving in. By shaping the battlefield of public perception, it is thus possible to get governments to change positions.

In this way, the Zionists' ability to shape global public perceptions of what was happening in Palestine — to demonize the British and turn the question of Palestine into a Jewish-British issue — shaped the political decisions of a range of governments. It was not the truth or falsehood of the narrative that mattered. What mattered was the ability to identify the victim and victimizer such that global opinion caused both London and governments not directly involved in the issue to adopt political stances advantageous to the Zionists. It is in this context that we need to view the Turkish flotilla.

The Turkish Flotilla to Gaza

The Palestinians have long argued that they are the victims of Israel, an invention of British and American imperialism. Since 1967, they have focused not so much on the existence of the state of Israel (at least in messages geared toward the West) as on the oppression of Palestinians in the occupied territories. Since the split between Hamas and Fatah and the Gaza War, the focus has been on the plight of the citizens of Gaza, who have been portrayed as the dispossessed victims of Israeli violence.

The bid to shape global perceptions by portraying the Palestinians as victims of Israel was the first prong of a longtime two-part campaign. The second part of this campaign involved armed resistance against the Israelis. The way this resistance was carried out, from airplane hijackings to stone-throwing children to suicide bombers, interfered with the first part of the campaign, however. The Israelis could point to suicide bombings or the use of children against soldiers as symbols of Palestinian inhumanity. This in turn was used to justify conditions in Gaza. While the Palestinians had made significant inroads in placing Israel on the defensive in global public opinion, they thus consistently gave the Israelis the opportunity to turn the tables. And this is where the flotilla comes in.

The Turkish flotilla aimed to replicate the Exodus story or, more precisely, to define the global image of Israel in the same way the Zionists defined the image that they wanted to project. As with the Zionist portrayal of the situation in 1947, the Gaza situation is far more complicated than as portrayed by the Palestinians. The moral question is also far more ambiguous. But as in 1947, when the Zionist portrayal was not intended to be a scholarly analysis of the situation but a political weapon designed to define perceptions, the Turkish flotilla was not designed to carry out a moral inquest.

Instead, the flotilla was designed to achieve two ends. The first is to divide Israel and Western governments by shifting public opinion against Israel. The second is to create a political crisis inside Israel between those who feel that Israel's increasing isolation over the Gaza issue is dangerous versus those who think any weakening of resolve is dangerous.

The Geopolitical Fallout for Israel

It is vital that the Israelis succeed in portraying the flotilla as an extremist plot. Whether extremist or not, the plot has generated an image of Israel quite damaging to Israeli political interests. Israel is increasingly isolated internationally, with heavy pressure on its relationship with Europe and the United States.

In all of these countries, politicians are extremely sensitive to public opinion. It is difficult to imagine circumstances under which public opinion will see Israel as the victim. The general response in the Western public is likely to be that the Israelis probably should have allowed the ships to go to Gaza and offload rather than to precipitate bloodshed. Israel's enemies will fan these flames by arguing that the Israelis prefer bloodshed to reasonable accommodation. And as Western public opinion shifts against Israel, Western political leaders will track with this shift.

The incident also wrecks Israeli relations with Turkey, historically an Israeli ally in the Muslim world with longstanding military cooperation with Israel. The Turkish government undoubtedly has wanted to move away from this relationship, but it faced resistance within the Turkish military and among secularists. The new Israeli action makes a break with Israel easy, and indeed almost necessary for Ankara.

With roughly the population of Houston, Texas, Israel is just not large enough to withstand extended isolation, meaning this event has profound geopolitical implications.

Public opinion matters where issues are not of fundamental interest to a nation. Israel is not a fundamental interest to other nations. The ability to generate public antipathy to Israel can therefore reshape Israeli relations with countries critical to Israel. For example, a redefinition of U.S.-Israeli relations will have much less effect on the United States than on Israel. The Obama administration, already irritated by the Israelis, might now see a shift in U.S. public opinion that will open the way to a new U.S.-Israeli relationship disadvantageous to Israel.

The Israelis will argue that this is all unfair, as they were provoked. Like the British, they seem to think that the issue is whose logic is correct. But the issue actually is, whose logic will be heard? As with a tank battle or an airstrike, this sort of warfare has nothing to do with fairness. It has to do with controlling public perception and using that public perception to shape foreign policy around the world. In this case, the issue will be whether the deaths were necessary. The Israeli argument of provocation will have limited traction.

Internationally, there is little doubt that the incident will generate a firestorm. Certainly, Turkey will break cooperation with Israel. Opinion in Europe will likely harden. And public opinion in the United States — by far the most important in the equation — might shift to a "plague-on-both-your-houses" position.

While the international reaction is predictable, the interesting question is whether this evolution will cause a political crisis in Israel. Those in Israel who feel that international isolation is preferable to accommodation with the Palestinians are in control now. Many in the opposition see Israel's isolation as a strategic threat. Economically and militarily, they argue, Israel cannot survive in isolation. The current regime will respond that there will be no isolation. The flotilla aimed to generate what the government has said would not happen.

The tougher Israel is, the more the flotilla's narrative takes hold. As the Zionists knew in 1947 and the Palestinians are learning, controlling public opinion requires subtlety, a selective narrative and cynicism. As they also knew, losing the battle can be catastrophic. It cost Britain the Mandate and allowed Israel to survive. Israel's enemies are now turning the tables. This maneuver was far more effective than suicide bombings or the Intifada in challenging Israel's public perception and therefore its geopolitical position (though if the Palestinians return to some of their more distasteful tactics like suicide bombing, the Turkish strategy of portraying Israel as the instigator of violence will be undermined).

Israel is now in uncharted waters. It does not know how to respond. It is not clear that the Palestinians know how to take full advantage of the situation, either. But even so, this places the battle on a new field, far more fluid and uncontrollable than what went before. The next steps will involve calls for sanctions against Israel. The Israeli threats against Iran will be seen in a different context, and Israeli portrayal of Iran will hold less sway over the world.

And this will cause a political crisis in Israel. If this government survives, then Israel is locked into a course that gives it freedom of action but international isolation. If the government falls, then Israel enters a period of domestic uncertainty. In either case, the flotilla achieved its strategic mission. It got Israel to take violent action against it. In doing so, Israel ran into its own fist.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/2010...readmore&elq=f4560e3fd2384ab4a4e43f0a512e0ee7
 

AJSINGH

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Believe it or not IMO, Israel - the state is very much similar to a jewish Pakistan. No offense to either Israeli or Pakistani people as such.
Both were created on a political religious ideology - the only states created by partitioning the regions by the British. Creation of both countries was opposed by the orthodox and traditional Muslim and Jewish scholars for Pakistan and Israel respectively. Both depend on American and are top recipients of aid both civilian and extensive military aid. Both have committed huge crimes and get hardly a rap from the US because of their strategic interests met by them. And increasingly both countries have a dangerous level of loony religious right in the govt. and army. And until the 1970s when Israel enforced the compulsory military service, the Israeli state supported "non- state actors" (i.e. terrorists groups) to get rid of Palestinians in the land under their control. This why you keep hearing about the right of return of refugees for Palestinians. We had a similar situation where non-Muslims were ethnically cleansed from Pakistan.

While the Pakistani Army has a state, in Israel the army IS the state. Both countries are not confident in their existence. Although India has repeatedly assured Pakistan that it recognizes it as a separate country, you have the regular complains that "India has not accepted the reality of Pakistan" and wants "Akhand Bharat". Similarly, even thought the Arab peace plan led by Saudi Arabia and now recently HAMAS itself has said that we will recognize Israel fully and establish diplomatic relations as per the 1967 borders but Israeli officials still continue to claim that they deny Israel's right to exist. Bot claim that acting in a lunatic manner actually shows how brave they are, the case of Pakistan is well known, but did you know that the Israeli defense minister before the 2008-2009 Gaza raids said that "We have to act like a lunatic state so that the Arabs are scared of us". The scary thing is both posses nuclear weapons as well.

Of course there are differences as well but the similarities are striking.
Pakistan and Israel , i do not see israeli people bombing Ney York or 9/11 style attack , i do not see israel the home of terrorism , jews were executed because of world sympathy and cleaver political maneuver, israel is just ferocius to protect its country ,soilders ,if they take it lightly as India does ,then they may face extinction ,well because the whole Arab world are against them
 

Armand2REP

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What do you call the stabbing ? An act of peace?
You don't go to war with knives, you go to war with guns. The stabbing and the beating are called self defence from pirates.
 

Armand2REP

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Making Israel look bad doesn't help the Palestinians
Israel made itself look bad. Now they look like a bunch of blood thirsty pirates and it will help the Palestinians. PR towards the international community is all they have and right now, pressure is mounting against Israel.
 

AJSINGH

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You don't go to war with knives, you go to war with guns. The stabbing and the beating are called self defence from pirates.
i think it is the attack which counts ,no matter from which weapon , after all anything which can kill is a weapon ,even a baseball bat
 

Singh

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Israel made itself look bad. Now they look like a bunch of blood thirsty pirates and it will help the Palestinians. PR towards the international community is all they have and right now, pressure is mounting against Israel.
Israel had a choice make itself look bad or undo all that it has done in the last 6 decades.
Its a no-brainer.

Pakistan and Israel , i do not see israeli people bombing Ney York or 9/11 style attack , i do not see israel the home of terrorism , jews were executed because of world sympathy and cleaver political maneuver, israel is just ferocius to protect its country ,soilders ,if they take it lightly as India does ,then they may face extinction ,well because the whole Arab world are against them
Why are you taking the poster's post out of context ? This is all rubbish.
Israel stopped the flotilla because it was a logical thing to do for Israel.
 

plugwater

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You don't go to war with knives, you go to war with guns. The stabbing and the beating are called self defence from pirates.
To kill someone you can do it with knife too. The protesters actions were out of hand. Besides, how stupid do you have to be to attack military units when all you have is knives and sticks? That's like poking a tiger and being upset when it attacks you. Especially if the tiger had told you not to poke it. Protestors wanted this to happen in order to create sympathy.
Israel has every right to search the ship, it was heading towards Gaza which is under the control of hamas, who knows what is inside the ship. Hams is still a terrorist organization rite? International laws kinda go out the window when "national security" comes into play. That goes with all countries.
 

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You be the judge in who is right or wrong.
 
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Armand2REP

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i think it is the attack which counts ,no matter from which weapon , after all anything which can kill is a weapon ,even a baseball bat
I think it is IDF's lack of jurisdiction that matters, they had no right to board and the people every right to defend themselves. It is a simple matter of international law. Now 10 protesters are dead over Israel's act of piracy and Turkey is going to force them to a showdown on the high seas. If IDF opens fire, it will be war against a NATO ally and then all hell will break loose. Not to mention the response from the Arab League.
 

Armand2REP

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To kill someone you can do it with knife too. The protesters actions were out of hand. Besides, how stupid do you have to be to attack military units when all you have is knives and sticks? That's like poking a tiger and being upset when it attacks you. Especially if the tiger had told you not to poke it. Protestors wanted this to happen in order to create sympathy.
Israel has every right to search the ship, it was heading towards Gaza which is under the control of hamas, who knows what is inside the ship. Hams is still a terrorist organization rite? International laws kinda go out the window when "national security" comes into play. That goes with all countries.
Let me go into your house with a gun in your face and see what you do. 80km off the coast is INTERNATIONAL waters. Israel has NO jurisdiction. The aid workers are not proven to be Hamas. Most of them are foreign nationals. Interesting thing will be what evidence BB provides that warranted such a search. I doubt they will find anything of concern much like Bush in Iraq. Then the pressure will really be on.
 

sob

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This was a forgone conclusion that for Israel this was a lose lose situation. You let the flotilla through it would embolden the Hamas and if you stop the flotilla then you risk international condemnation from the custodians of the world morality.

There is a simple question, who will guarantee that in the guise of aid materials arms and ammunition will not flow to the Hamas, a known and proscribed Terrorist organisation. Did the Turks assure the Israeli's that there were no missiles or arms in the shipment.

for about 3-4 years Egyptian's and the Israeli's have been blockading the Gaza area. There has to a reason for a Muslim country to do this along with Israel. Also it is far cheaper to send the aid through land route , which is via Egypt. Then why was the material sent by Sea, it was just a political stunt to put the Israeli's in an awkward position.

I have yet to see these so called peace activists protesting against the Hamas when they rain rockets indiscriminately over Israel leading to civilian causalities.
 

Oracle

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Let me go into your house with a gun in your face and see what you do. 80km off the coast is INTERNATIONAL waters. Israel has NO jurisdiction. The aid workers are not proven to be Hamas. Most of them are foreign nationals. Interesting thing will be what evidence BB provides that warranted such a search. I doubt they will find anything of concern much like Bush in Iraq. Then the pressure will really be on.
I guess Israel had some intel about the ships. And those ships were going to Gaza. Israel has every right to search that ship for arms even if it was in International Waters. And what was the need to attack IDF by the aid workers with knives in the first place, if all that was an aid ship and a peaceful one. Noting will happen other than some sabre rattling by Turkey and protests in the media.
 

plugwater

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Let me go into your house with a gun in your face and see what you do. 80km off the coast is INTERNATIONAL waters. Israel has NO jurisdiction. The aid workers are not proven to be Hamas. Most of them are foreign nationals. Interesting thing will be what evidence BB provides that warranted such a search. I doubt they will find anything of concern much like Bush in Iraq. Then the pressure will really be on.
I said it before and i am saying it again if Israel thinks that the ship posses threat to its national security it has every right to search the ship. and yes, aid workers may not be proved as hamas but aiding the terrorist also considered as terrorism.
 
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Singh

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Then why was the material sent by Sea, it was just a political stunt to put the Israeli's in an awkward position.
Another point to infer from this, this flotilla was supported by the Turkish Govt. Clear sign of Turkish FP !
 

AJSINGH

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so let us get one thing straight , who attacked whom ? ,did those activist on board the ship attack IDF first or IDF attacked first?
 

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