Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

Vinod2070

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Nothing is happening here. Most likely it will whimper out in a few days.

Many Pakistani internet warriors are eagerly waiting to watch the two fight from the sidelines, as always they will just jerk off in hope for a few days before returning back to their lives waiting for the next crisis.
 

Phenom

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Hamas is a terrorist organization it has launched countless attacks inside Israel and even now they are lobbing rockets at Israel, so to expect Israel to talk to Hamas, is like expecting India to talk to LeT.

However Israel's collective punishment of all Gazans is reprehensible too, Israel needs to realize that these measure would actually be harmful to them in the long run, as it would radicalise a large section of the populace.
 

nandu

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Turkish navy to break Israel's siege of Gaza

"As part of the open conflict between Turkey and Israel following the massacre against the 'freedom sail' to Gaza and the protest sparked in the world, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is considering going to Gaza himself in order to break the blockade imposed on the Strip." Al-Mustaqbal also reports that Erdogan has informed the US Administration of his plan to send a Turkish naval escort with another flotilla of aid, but that the Americans have requested the Prime Minister delay the plan.


It is not clear whether Erdogan would actually board the flotilla himself, but Al-Mustaqbal (Future) newspaper describes the source of the story as "knowledgeable".The prospect of the naval confrontation between Turkey and Israel is a dangerous escalation of the crisis, potentially resulting in open conflict between the two states, which could easily draw in Israel's traditional enemies.The move could be seen as an attempt by Turkey to force the hand of the UN and US to act on the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/
 

nandu

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Turkey launches Criminal Investigation Against Israeli Leaders

Turkish newspaper Zaman says prosecution has begun compiling evidence against Prime Minister Netanyahu, Defense Minister Barak and IDF Chief of Staff Ashkenazi following deadly raid on Gaza-bound flotilla.The İstanbul Bakırköy Prosecutor's Office has launched a criminal investigation against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi over the deadly raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla, Turkish newspaper Zaman reported Saturday.

According to the report, if the prosecutor's office can compile enough evidence against Israel at the end of its probe, it will charge the Israeli officials with various crimes, including murder, injury, taking hostages, attacking Turkish citizens on the open seas and piracy. The Turkish newspaper reported that one of the prosecutors interviewed all the injured on Wednesday in a hospital in Ankara except for intensive care unit patients. In addition, the hundreds of activists deported from Israel were examined at the Council of Forensic Medicine (ATK) to provide more evidence about the incident.

The ATK was said to also be running tests to see whether any chemical weapons were used against the activists. The prosecution is also expected to use the results of an autopsy performed by doctors in Turkey on the nine Turkish men killed in the raid. The Guardian reported Friday that the nine were shot a total of 30 times and that five of them were killed by gunshot wounds to the head.

According to the Turkish report, the country's foreign and justice ministries are closely following the investigation. To demonstrate that Israel's intervention was illegal, the prosecutors will emphasize that the ships were in international waters, that the people aboard had waved a white flag of surrender, that the ships were carrying humanitarian aid, and that the passengers did not threaten Israel.

It was also reported that should Israel appoint an investigation committee into the deadly incident, the Turkish prosecution plans to use its findings. Meanwhile Saturday, a Turkish government official said his country wanted the upcoming summit for a 20-member security group for the Asian region to condemn the recent Israeli raid, which he said would be discussed during the June 7-8 Conference on Interactions and Confidence Building Measures in Asia, or CICA. He added that Turkey considered Gaza as well as the situation in Afghanistan as test cases for the security group that includes Russia, Iran, Afghanistan and South Korea.

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/
 

ahmedsid

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Hamas is a terrorist organization it has launched countless attacks inside Israel and even now they are lobbing rockets at Israel, so to expect Israel to talk to Hamas, is like expecting India to talk to LeT.

However Israel's collective punishment of all Gazans is reprehensible too, Israel needs to realize that these measure would actually be harmful to them in the long run, as it would radicalise a large section of the populace.
Very True, Hamas is a ruthless brigade, but please dont compare it to LeT, because the Gazans Elected Hamas with a good majority. Does Russia Talk to LeT? Nope!!! LeT Is a Terrorist Organisation accepted by all, while Hamas is not accepted to a terrorist Organisation by the whole world. You dont have to talk to Hamas, to Defeat Hamas, Israel has to show the Palestenians that there can be peace without Rockets. Like you said, collective punishment will make Hamas stronger, Israel Weaker! In my Eye, Hamas is in the wrong for attacking Civilians, In my Eye, IDF is in the wrong for collective starvation and bombardment!
 

anoop_mig25

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Completely agree with you, especially the Basement lock up part! The People of Palestine have their leaders to blame who dreamed of throwing the Jews into the Sea, when in Reality they were just cowards and now face the possibility of being shot at Sea!!!

As Israel saw the Palestenians were weak, their neighbours weaker, the superiority complex played in I guess, and the God Syndrome worked in. Maybe they derive some sort of pleasure punishing the people, while in Reality the leaders, be it Yassar Arafat or anyone else, pretty much lived of decently. Its the poor children growing up in Gaza who are bearing this inhumane torture. Israel owes them a Childhood, especially since it calls itself the only true Democracy in the middle east! Ending the Blockade will make that task easier!
when hamas became to ready to recognise Israels right to exist can provide link for that . hamas is a terrorist organisation it has vowed to eliminate the state of Israel.
 

ahmedsid

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when hamas became to ready to recognise Israels right to exist can provide link for that . hamas is a terrorist organisation it has vowed to eliminate the state of Israel.
Yes It has vowed to Eliminate Israel as long as Israel keeps starving and killing the People of Palestine. So if you can call that a reason to call Hamas as Terrorist, then so be it, But I wouldnt call Hamas a Terrorist Organisation Just for that. I Call Hamas Ruthless because they have used Human Shields, I call Hamas Ruthless for their Rocket Attacks on Schools. I Call IDF Ruthless for Burning Children, I call IDF Ruthless for Bombing Ambulances.
 

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Weaponry Overview and Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Preparing Weaponry

I'm not trying to takes sides but this video clearly showed the intentions of peace activists was to instigate a confrontation.

After all the drama now they still ended up cooperating Check the latest ship that was boarded by Israeli soldiers on june 05. When i post these videos in other forum sites. they get deleted

Aerial Footage of Israeli Navy Soldiers Boarding 7th Flotilla Ship (In Color)

MOD EDIT:- Please Dont Take in other forum's names.
 
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Known_Unknown

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^^Are you kidding me? The peace activists intended a confrontation? If they did, then they would have set out on boats to attack the Israeli Navy ships. They were defending themselves in international waters from an illegal search by the security forces of a country that had NO JURISDICTION. I don't know how to make this any simpler. If anyone was desiring a confrontation, it was the Israelis, as they KNOWINGLY INVADED a ship in international waters.

The peace activists had a right to defend themselves and their ship if they thought they were in danger.
 

IBRIS

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^^Are you kidding me?
The peace activists intended a confrontation?
If they did, then they would have set out on boats to attack the Israeli Navy ships.
You have to be very naive individual to think hamas is some innocent organization.
They were defending themselves in international waters from an illegal search by the security forces of a country that had NO JURISDICTION.
The entirely legal naval blockade is designed to prevent arms, primarily from Iran, from reaching the terrorists in Gaza, from which Israel withdrew in 2005. So, to say the blockade was already in effect and those poor chaps in those ships welding knifes nd metal clubs were just anticipating a get together i guess.
I don't know how to make this any simpler. If anyone was desiring a confrontation, it was the Israelis, as they KNOWINGLY INVADED a ship in international waters.
Next time when you quote me. Please quote me properly

The peace activists had a right to defend themselves and their ship if they thought they were in danger.
REALLY, if you are not blind. Then watch this video of another ship behaving like they suppose to.
Now why did they just behaved like real humans in 2nd video.?
 
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AirforcePilot

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Iran's navy offers to escort Gaza ships

TEHRAN - Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.

"Iran's Revolutionary Guards naval forces are fully prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities," Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.

Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel which accuses Iran of supplying weapons to Hamas, the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.
The Guards, with their own navy, air force and command structure separate from the regular armed forces, are seen as fiercely loyal to the values of the Islamic Republic.

"If the Supreme Leader issues an order for this then the Revolutionary Guard naval forces will do their best to secure the ships," Shirazi said. "It is Iran's duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza."

Last Monday Israeli troops killed nine activists on board one ship in a convoy trying to deliver aid to Gaza, sparking international outrage, especially in Muslim countries.

Another ship was boarded on Saturday and pro-Palestinian activists have promised more as they challenge the blockade imposed four years ago with the stated aim of stopping arms getting to Hamas.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel will continue to stop ships reaching the shore and creating "an Iranian port in Gaza," a reference to Iran's support for Hamas.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37537320/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/
 

plugwater

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ahmedsid

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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3249568,00.html


Hamas: We'll recognize Israel within '67 borders
I dont know why one of you downrated this post, its not even mine!!! Is it Because it went against your belief that Hamas Has vowed never to Recognise Israel? Is it because you feel cheated that you were fed the wrong information all this while, and Cant accept it when you see it for yourselves? And yet we love to call our neighbors brainwashed! Hypocricy? :)
 

ahmedsid

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You have to be very naive individual to think hamas is some innocent organization. The entirely legal naval blockade is designed to prevent arms, primarily from Iran, from reaching the terrorists in Gaza, from which Israel withdrew in 2005. So, to say the blockade was already in effect and those poor chaps in those ships welding knifes nd metal clubs were just anticipating a get together i guess.
Next time when you quote me. Please quote me properly



REALLY, if you are not blind. Then watch this video of another ship behaving like they suppose to.
Now why did they just behaved like real humans in 2nd video.?
This Whole argument fell flat across when you asked KU If Hamas was some Innocent Organisation. The Very moment Hamas was mentioned, I stopped because Hamas had nothing to do with the Aid Flotilla and If Weapons were being Smuggled for Hamas in the Flotilla, why is the IDF not showing it to us?, and If you mean to say, the Holocaust Survivors, the Parliamentarians and other Dignataries and Journalists onboard the Flotilla were Hamas Members, then I rest my case. God Speed
 
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ahmedsid

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Iran's navy offers to escort Gaza ships

TEHRAN - Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.

"Iran's Revolutionary Guards naval forces are fully prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities," Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.

Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel which accuses Iran of supplying weapons to Hamas, the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.
The Guards, with their own navy, air force and command structure separate from the regular armed forces, are seen as fiercely loyal to the values of the Islamic Republic.

"If the Supreme Leader issues an order for this then the Revolutionary Guard naval forces will do their best to secure the ships," Shirazi said. "It is Iran's duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza."

Last Monday Israeli troops killed nine activists on board one ship in a convoy trying to deliver aid to Gaza, sparking international outrage, especially in Muslim countries.

Another ship was boarded on Saturday and pro-Palestinian activists have promised more as they challenge the blockade imposed four years ago with the stated aim of stopping arms getting to Hamas.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel will continue to stop ships reaching the shore and creating "an Iranian port in Gaza," a reference to Iran's support for Hamas.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37537320/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/
Neither Iran, Nor Pakistan or any other Country in the so called Muslim Brotherhood has the Firepower required to meet off with the Israeli Navy. If its Cutlery Vs Cutlery, then It would be a fair fight, but with outdated Iranian Ships, I wouldnt bet on them!!!

The Turkish, yes they have the firepower, but sorry, they are not as dumb as some people wet dreaming think they are.
 

AirforcePilot

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Neither Iran, Nor Pakistan or any other Country in the so called Muslim Brotherhood has the Firepower required to meet off with the Israeli Navy. If its Cutlery Vs Cutlery, then It would be a fair fight, but with outdated Iranian Ships, I wouldnt bet on them!!!

The Turkish, yes they have the firepower, but sorry, they are not as dumb as some people wet dreaming think they are.
Iran must of read your post! Iran will not be sending their navy to run the blockade, instead the Iran's Red Crescent Society will try to run the blockade. I'm sort of disappointed cuz it would be interesting to see how good Iran's navy really is...
 

ajtr

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Hamas, Son of Israel

by Justin Raimondo, January 28, 2006
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Amid all the howls of pain and gnashing of teeth over the triumph of Hamas in the Palestinian elections, one fact remains relatively obscure, albeit highly relevant: Israel did much to launch Hamas as an effective force in the occupied territories. If ever there was a clear case of "blowback," then this is it. As Richard Sale pointed out in a piece for UPI:

"Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel 'aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),' said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic [and International] Studies. Israel's support for Hamas 'was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,' said a former senior CIA official."


Middle East analyst Ray Hanania concurs:

"In addition to hoping to turn the Palestinian masses away from Arafat and the PLO, the Likud leadership believed they could achieve a workable alliance with Islamic, anti-Arafat forces that would also extend Israel's control over the occupied territories."

In a conscious effort to undermine the Palestine Liberation Organization and the leadership of Yasser Arafat, in 1978 the government of then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin approved the application of Sheik Ahmad Yassin to start a "humanitarian" organization known as the Islamic Association, or Mujama. The roots of this Islamist group were in the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, and this was the seed that eventually grew into Hamas – but not before it was amply fertilized and nurtured with Israeli funding and political support.

Begin and his successor, Yitzhak Shamir, launched an effort to undercut the PLO, creating the so-called Village Leagues, composed of local councils of handpicked Palestinians who were willing to collaborate with Israel – and, in return, were put on the Israeli payroll. Sheik Yassin and his followers soon became a force within the Village Leagues. This tactical alliance between Yassin and the Israelis was based on a shared antipathy to the militantly secular and leftist PLO: the Israelis allowed Yassin's group to publish a newspaper and set up an extensive network of charitable organizations, which collected funds not only from the Israelis but also from Arab states opposed to Arafat.

Ami Isseroff, writing on MideastWeb, shows how the Israelis deliberately promoted the Islamists of the future Hamas by helping them turn the Islamic University of Gaza into a base from which the group recruited activists – and the suicide bombers of tomorrow. As the only higher-education facility in the Gaza strip, and the only such institution open to Palestinians since Anwar Sadat closed Egyptian colleges to them, IUG contained within its grounds the seeds of the future Palestinian state. When a conflict arose over religious issues, however, the Israeli authorities sided with the Islamists against the secularists of the Fatah-PLO mainstream. As Isseroff relates, the Islamists

"Encouraged Israeli authorities to dismiss their opponents in the committee in February of 1981, resulting in subsequent Islamisation of IUG policy and staff (including the obligation on women to wear the hijab and thobe and separate entrances for men and women), and enforced by violence and ostracization of dissenters. Tacit complicity from both university and Israeli authorities allowed Mujama to keep a weapons cache to use against secularists. By the mid 1980s, it was the largest university in occupied territories with 4,500 students, and student elections were won handily by Mujama."

Again, the motive was to offset Arafat's influence and divide the Palestinians. In the short term, this may have worked to some extent; in the longer term, however, it backfired badly – as demonstrated by the results of the recent Palestinian election.

The Hamas infrastructure of mosques, clinics, kindergartens, and other educational institutions flourished not only because they were lavishly funded, but also due to being efficiently run. Sheik Yassin and the future leaders of Hamas acquired a reputation for "clean" governance and good administrative practices, which would greatly aid them – especially in comparison to the PLO, which was widely perceived as corrupt. Indeed, "clean government" – and not the necessity of armed struggle – was the main theme of their successful election campaign.

The response of Israel and the U.S. has been shock, horror – and a stated refusal to deal with any government dominated by Hamas. U.S. congressional leaders – who unhelpfully passed a resolution prior to the Palestinian poll that demanded Hamas be banned from running – are now calling the entire "peace process" into question. Yet no one acknowledges that the victory of the Suicide Bombers Party demonstrated, in practice, an ancient principle expressed, I believe, by no less an authority than the Bible (Galatians 6:7):

"Be not deceived. God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

This "blowback" principle applies to Hamas not only insofar as Israel was involved in funding and encouraging Mujama, but also, after the consolidation of Hamas as an armed group, due to Israeli military policy. The much-touted "withdrawal," which amounts to Israel giving up Gaza while strengthening its hand elsewhere in the occupied territories, has been grist for the radical Islamist mill, as has the Wall of Separation and the attempt to quash the vote in East Jerusalem. Israel's relentless offensive against its perceived enemies – first Fatah, now Hamas and Islamic Jihad – has created a backlash and solidified support for fundamentalist extremist factions in the Palestinian community.

Likewise, the victory of Hamas will embolden the ultra-Zionists in Israel, who similarly mix a fanatic theology with faith in a military "solution" to the Palestinian "problem." The electoral victory of Hamas was only a few hours old before Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu went on television explaining why any concessions to the Palestinians – including the Gaza pullback – only served to embolden the most radical elements, such as Hamas.

The stricken Ariel Sharon lies in his hospital bed, unconscious – while his unilateral "land for peace" plan suffers from a very similar condition. Sharon's newly-formed Kadima Party is the big potential loser in all this, with Netanyahu's Likud looking to gain bigtime. The irony is that, as defense minister, it was Sharon who helped conceive and oversee the Village Leagues scheme that did so much to implant and empower Hamas. Like some Middle Eastern version of Dr. Frankenstein, he wound up being struck down by his own monstrous creation.

There is a lesson in there, somewhere, though it isn't one the Israelis or their American sponsors seem capable of learning just yet.

The idea that voting is some kind of panacea that will cleanse the Middle East of a self-defeating radicalism is an illusion that died a painful death with the election victory of Hamas. It had earlier suffered near-fatal convulsions with the ascension to power in Iraq of a Shi'ite fundamentalist coalition closely tied to Iran. The bitch-goddess of capital-D Democracy is a fickle and often perversely cruel deity, whose worshippers have been hit with a one-two punch as they seek to transform an entire region according to the canons of their peculiar dogma.

NOTES IN THE MARGIN

More on Hamas and the "blowback" effect from Robert Dreyfuss, one of my favorite writers, in this podcast interview with the History News Network's Rick Shenkman.

Maybe this is why the president and his supporters often refer to the "war on terrorism" as if it will go on forever.

David Frum, former presidential speechwriter and National Review's resident neocon commissar of political correctness, cheers Jacques Chirac's threat to nuke hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings. Frum's only worry is that Chirac's nuclear sabre-rattling won't be believed. On the other hand, it would be all too believable if the prime minister of Israel – who has his finger hovering over the nuclear button – were to make such an explicit threat. Which puts Iran's ambition to go nuclear – the real subject of Frum's outburst – in perspective.

Be sure to check out the theory and practice of Republican Leninism, and go to Jane Hamsher – where else? – for the latest in Fitzology.
 
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Turkish govt debates to cancel Israeli military deals

The debate comes a week after Israel killed the nine Turkish Gaza aid activists, including a 19-year-old boy who held dual Turkish-U.S. citizenship, in international waters of the Mediterranean.
Monday, 07 June 2010 13:15

Turkish National Defense Minister Vecdi Gonul said Monday, in reference to a question on whether or not Turkey would cancel military agreements signed with Israel earlier, the agreements were under the responsibility of the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), even if they were military agreements.

The debate comes a week after Israeli commandos killed the nine Turkish Gaza aid activists, including a 19-year-old boy who held dual Turkish-U.S. citizenship, in international waters of the Mediterranean.

Israeli companies have been among the main recepients of lucrative tenders to equip the Turkish army.

If the topic of Turkish-Israeli military agreements come to the Turkish government, we would debate on them. We have not yet received any request from the MFA on this issue, Gonul stressed.

Three military exercises that were planned with Israel have been cancelled, Gonul said.

"Something to hide"

Turkey's foreign minister on Monday called on Israel to accept an international probe into the deadly raid.

Ahmet Davutoglu said Israel should declare it agrees to the probe proposed by U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. He said: "Otherwise, it means that they have something to hide."

However, Israel refused on Sunday a proposal by U.N. Secretary-General Ban ki-Moon for an international investigation into its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship.

The U.N. chief had suggested establishing a panel that would be headed by former New Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer and include representatives from Turkey, Israel and the United States, an Israeli official said earlier in Jerusalem.

"Debate on military deals"

The Turkish foreign minister said that the future of agreements with Israel depended on Israel's attitude.

Davutoglu said the future of bilateral agreements between Turkey and Israel was related with Israel's stance.

"If Israel gives green light to formation of an international committee and is ready to answer questions of the committee, Turkish-Israeli relations will have a different course. Otherwise, Turkish-Israeli relations cannot be normalized," Davutoglu told a press conference in Istanbul.

The Turkish minister defined the Israeli attack on aid flotilla as a problem between Israel and international community and international law, not a problem between Turkey and Israel.

The ship was also carrying activists from Britain, Germany, Malaysia, Belgium, Ireland and elsewhere.

Davutoglu said international community was facing a serious problem, and enumerated the prior question as if a country had the right to intervene in a civilian ship that was sailing in international waters.

The minister said United Nations (UN) Secretary General Ban Ki-moon proposed to set up an international committee to deal with the issue, and Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accepted that proposal.

"If Israel thinks it has protected its national interests and rights, it should declare that it accepts formation of an international committee. Otherwise, it means that they are hiding some facts," Davutoglu said.

Davutoglu also said Turkey would never let any country to hurt Turkish citizens on purpose, and every one would have to face the consequences.

Ankara recalled its ambassador from Israel and scrapped plans for three joint military exercises.

Turkey's Ambassador to Israel Oguz Celikkol arrived in Turkey on June 3 after Turkey had called him back due to the raid of Israeli navy forces on a convoy of aid ships of Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH) carrying humanitarian aid for Gaza.

Turkey would reduce economic and defence ties with Israel, Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc had said last Friday.

Ankara would reduce relations in these fields to a minimum level, taking into account whether (cooperation) already exists... whether payments have been made or not, Arinc said.

Gonul's remarks came while receiving Mali's Defense Minister Natie Plea in Ankara on Monday.

"First high level visit from Mali"

Speaking to reporters while receiving Plea, Minister Gonul said that Plea's visit was the first high level visit to Turkey from Mali.

Mali is a country with deep cultural roots in Africa. It is a big and rich country. Turkey and Mali share historical relations, Gonul said.

Turkey opened her first embassy in Mali in February of 2010. The two countries, in 2000, signed a defense framework agreement, Gonul stressed.

Minister Plea's visit to Turkey will contribute to good relations between our two ministries, Gonul underlined.

Plea, in his part, said that he was pleased to be in Turkey.

I am here to boost our cooperation with Turkey, Plea said.

We are pleased with the hospitality displayed to us in Turkey. I thank you for extending a friendly hand, Plea said.
 

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