Is Russia still our friend? Poll

[LETHALFORCE]

You are crazy. Give me a single case of an American "gift" to India. Your friend Pakistan get USD 1B military aid every year. What about India??
India has paid top dollar for C-130, C-17 etc. IAF will be forced to use these planes when bought - or else these will become tarmac decorations.

CBU 105 fast tracked when india Pakistan almost went to war for a sixth time.
Some reports that some bunker busters or tech "gifted" by USA?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Simple question. If Russia and india were true allies why did india offer no assistance
To Russia During russian invasion of Afghanistan? The relations are overstated.
Why did india play the non aligned role?

 

[Khagesh]

India's economic miracle is from a change which favors trade with the west.

Just to clear a misconception, India's economic miracle is from a change within the Indians and it favors trade wherever it is.

For the time being it is in the west and relative importance of Western trade is going down not up since last 5 years at least. Tomorrow absolutely all of it will be outside the West mainly in BRICS with the larger South America and Africa in tow.

 

[sob]

there are no concept of friendships in international relations. It is all about whether your interests dovetail together or not.

Major part of 60s to 80s saw this happen with the relations between india and the USSR. We were swayed by the anti Imperialism slogan and our desire to be the leader of the non aligned movement. Who can forget the Foreign Hand bogey used by Smt.Indira Gandhi repeatedly to use for domestic political considerations. Here the Foreign Hand was supposed to be the Americans. It seemed to pay dividends to her and her party. The so called socialist brigade or the Lohiaites as they call themselves were also in sync with Madam Gandhi on this Foreign Hand.

We were the largest market for 2nd grade Russian equipment and we were the only country in the world to defeat another country armed with the evil American weapons. When Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR, in all international fora either we supported the Russians or we mostly abstained from voting.

And what did we get from the Yankees. Nothing we just got threatened by the USS Enterprise, we just some 3rd quality wheat to feed our starving millions, we got some help in unfurling the Green Revolution- which led us to be self reliant.

These evil American Yankees accepted lakhs of our people in their country. They stole our best engineers, Doctors and Scientists. What did we get, just a few Billion dollars in inward remittances.

Russia continues till date arming the Chinese with highly sophisticated weapons, never mind this is a country which thrashed us in 1962. How dare the Yanks supply a few Planes and Helicopters to Pakistan. How dare they give loans and grants to Pakistan.

And now even the Russians want to sell their arms to Pakistan. Now they also want to have regular Army drills with Pakistan a neighbour we have fought 4 times.

Damn the American democratic system, it is out to subvert our independence. Hail the quasi Dictatorship of Mr. Putin.

After all we are Indians and Russians are our best friends( or so we would like to believe).

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Just to clear a misconception, India's economic miracle is from a change within the Indians and it favors trade wherever it is.

For the time being it is in the west and relative importance of Western trade is going down not up since last 5 years at least. Tomorrow absolutely all of it will be outside the West mainly in BRICS with the larger South America and Africa in tow.

Trade with the west will always be more lucrative. BRICS is a title; most bric nations have very little
Trade among themselves. Look at India's trade with ally russia 5 percent of trade with USA.

 

[ersakthivel]

No permanent friendships in international politics, only permanent interests as he old saying goes.

but Russia like the US has one key reason to sustain strategic ties with india, the rise of china , which threatens its eastern border both numerically and geographically.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

No permanent friendships in international politics, only permanent interests as he old saying goes.

but Russia like the US has one key reason to sustain strategic ties with india, the rise of china , which threatens its eastern border both numerically and geographically.

China is a bigger threat to usa(economic/military) the threat with Russia is not a priority for Russia
As it once was.

 

[Satybharat]

how come our best friend can go to Pakistan and selling them weapons

 

[Razor]

Simple question. If Russia and india were true allies why did india offer no assistance
To Russia During russian invasion of Afghanistan? The relations are overstated.
Why did india play the non aligned role?

Yes, India did not support so called "Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan" (In reality it was essentially an anti-terrorist op by the Soviets, to clear American funded and armed terrorists who had liquidated the legitimate Afghan govt. )

So India not supporting the Afghan op only adds strength to the argument that India wasn't a Soviet vassal.
But even today in this age (Ukraine civil war) you'll see that euro nations (like france and a whole bunch of 'em) and other nations like Japan (which went against russia in spite of strengthening relations and russia's assurance to solve kuril island disputes) will vote (in world forums) and act just as told by Uncle Sam. This is vassalhood. :thumb:

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

there are no concept of friendships in international relations. It is all about whether your interests dovetail together or not.

Major part of 60s to 80s saw this happen with the relations between india and the USSR. We were swayed by the anti Imperialism slogan and our desire to be the leader of the non aligned movement. Who can forget the Foreign Hand bogey used by Smt.Indira Gandhi repeatedly to use for domestic political considerations. Here the Foreign Hand was supposed to be the Americans. It seemed to pay dividends to her and her party. The so called socialist brigade or the Lohiaites as they call themselves were also in sync with Madam Gandhi on this Foreign Hand.

We were the largest market for 2nd grade Russian equipment and we were the only country in the world to defeat another country armed with the evil American weapons. When Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR, in all international fora either we supported the Russians or we mostly abstained from voting.

And what did we get from the Yankees. Nothing we just got threatened by the USS Enterprise, we just some 3rd quality wheat to feed our starving millions, we got some help in unfurling the Green Revolution- which led us to be self reliant.

These evil American Yankees accepted lakhs of our people in their country. They stole our best engineers, Doctors and Scientists. What did we get, just a few Billion dollars in inward remittances.

Russia continues till date arming the Chinese with highly sophisticated weapons, never mind this is a country which thrashed us in 1962. How dare the Yanks supply a few Planes and Helicopters to Pakistan. How dare they give loans and grants to Pakistan.

And now even the Russians want to sell their arms to Pakistan. Now they also want to have regular Army drills with Pakistan a neighbour we have fought 4 times.

Damn the American democratic system, it is out to subvert our independence. Hail the quasi Dictatorship of Mr. Putin.

After all we are Indians and Russians are our best friends( or so we would like to believe).

Stolen really!

What would these people have done in an over populated country like India? Increase more competition for scarce resources!!

 

[indiatester]

With Ukraine gone most of the wheat in Russia is coming from india probably for free
Or credit since they are broke have they given india anything on credit? Like they are giving
Pakistan?

You seem to ignore how USSR bailed us up during the 70's. USSR used to accept Indian goods and Rupee payments for our imports from USSR. They also bailed India out during the Oil crisis by exporting their crude. I think they have helped India almost all the times we were in trouble.
I don't feel we have done much for them.

 

[Khagesh]

Trade with the west will always be more lucrative. BRICS is a title; most bric nations have very little
Trade among themselves. Look at India's trade with ally russia 5 percent of trade with USA.

That sir is a presumption. Quite a few people make it. But that does not make it the truth.

Here is the reality.

Currently the blue line is mainly China and tomorrow that blue line is mainly going to be India. And the Day after may be Brazil or Russia again.

Here is where the el-cheapo is being imported by US now. Mind you it is not India. Thus the growth of India is not dependent on US or other of the remaining West.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You seem to ignore how USSR bailed us up during the 70's. USSR used to accept Indian goods and Rupee payments for our imports from USSR. They also bailed India out during the Oil crisis by exporting their crude. I think they have helped India almost all the times we were in trouble.
I don't feel we have done much for them.

Much of the russian naval yards remained opened for years thru indian orders.
Latest example Gorshokov deal.

 

[Khagesh]

Stolen really!

What would these people have done in an over populated country like India? Increase more competition for scarce resources!!

Kaun jane. Shayad yahan baith kar Kejri aur Aaptards ki tarah din bhar gali dete Indians ko (translates as : feel victimized about loss of opportunity represented by foreign countries). At least that is a possiblity.

By allowing these people to leave we have relived the pressure and now look in just 3 decades the problem of Brain Drain is now the biggest source of remittances into India.

It is always good to allow the water to flow.

 

[sob]

Much of the russian naval yards remained opened for years thru indian orders.
Latest example Gorshokov deal.

such examples are many in the Russian context. Indo -Russian trade was also to some extent a barter trade.
Many of the commodities imported from India were paid for in Rs. My family firm used to export leather to the USSR in 70s and till early 80s, we were paid not in Dollars but in Rs. through Government of India.

 

[blueblood]

One company does not represent USA. The Bhopal disaster was unforeseen and not in usa's
Control. India's economic miracle is from a change which favors trade with the west . Russia has
Almost no part of it.

No it does not. But a president actively trying to save a mass murderer does. This wasn't the first time and it won't be the last.
$407 million is what Dow agreed to pay instead of the $3.5 billion demanded. Rs 100000 is the massive sum that people who lost family members recieved because US govt. refused to play any part except shielding Anderson.



The economic power house that India is likely to become is because Russia played a significant part in it.

Bokaro Steel Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bhilai Steel Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ranipur, Uttarakhand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



We should not behave like ungrateful turds. We are not Pakis and we shouldn't strive to become them either.

 

[Mad Indian]

Is there any particular reason we should choose one over the other. Let us make the best of what both sides have to offer. Even US does the same - US with Saudi/Israel/Pak, US with India/Pak.

 

[Mad Indian]

No it does not. But a president actively trying to save a mass murderer does. This wasn't the first time and it won't be the last.
$407 million is what Dow agreed to pay instead of the $3.5 billion demanded. Rs 100000 is the massive sum that people who lost family members recieved because US govt. refused to play any part except shielding Anderson.



The economic power house that India is likely to become is because Russia played a significant part in it.

Bokaro Steel Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bhilai Steel Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ranipur, Uttarakhand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



We should not behave like ungrateful turds. We are not Pakis and we shouldn't strive to become them either.

If you are going to make US accountable for Bhopal, which is retarded, then you should hold USSR accountable for our millions of deaths from poverty, startvation and destitution because of our socialist ---- up till 1991, which USSR actively supported.

Any Indian with any sense should actually think that USSR breakdown is indirectly the best thing that could have happened to our country - with no USSR to bail us out for our retarded socialist bankruptcy, we were "forced" to open our economy, the reason why 10% GDP growth is a reality, the reason why our films and dramas are not portraying poverty porn like in the 80s, the reason why we dont feel the pinch of unemployement crisis like the 80s even though there are million more job seekers right now, and the reason why for the first time since Independence, our citizens are actually looking for a better future and not disappointment.

 

[roma]

I'm waiting for Russian Advocates .!! will they have Answers

What exactly did RUssia do for india during the Cold War that was so special?
( many will say Bay of Bengal nuclear submarine help ) but a russian military member
Here said it was just a routine patrol for Russia nothing special,.
One thing Russia did do for india is keep india economic growth rate below 2 percent for
3 decades.
Some facts of the Cold War where the west was so bad to INdia:
USA and Uk offered india a unsc permanent membership which Nehru
Refused to be a lapdog for the commies.
Kennedy during 1962 war was ready to give total military assistance which
Was also refused to pursue hindi chini bhai bhai. Bs.
Russians have screwed india on every military deal.
Where this delusional love of Russia comes from has puzzled me for years?

I don't think India made terribly bad choices.
India remained non-aligned. That was the right decision.
India became an ally of the USSR only when there was an imminent threat of invasion by the US. That was the right decision.
India opened up with the west after the fall of the USSR. That was the right decision.
India is participate in non-Dollar based financial institutions today. That is also the right decision.
Has India made bad decisions? Yes, it has. However, not all decisions have been bad.

Let me try answer @LETHALFORCE and @SajeevJino above
Firstly let me state that i liked the post of @LETHALFORCE because of much of the correct information
which corroborated what i had posted earlier

But really let me answer where the so-called delusional love of russia came from
It came from the solid support which Brezhnev gave india when he was in power - it came from the naval
blockade which helped neutralise the effect of pakclands friend who set A/C into the area ,
it came from usa solid support for packland and it came from Nehru making the worst possible series of decisions
which included some kind of strange hatred for usa and then later begging for arms from them
- seemingly an irrational personality thus making irrational and emotional decisions

but we must distinguish between the love for Brezhnev, which i personally feel is justified
and the love for russia which ofttimes is on an unstable foundation.

Brezhnev gave us unquestioning ,immediate and powerful support and so i feel
the "love" for him is justified , but in today's world, russia perhaps is forced to be equivocating
in its support for us .

I think @pmaitra has a better balance in his post

I feel that today russia is neither friend nor foe .
They have great technology and if we play it right ~ we can benefit from that .......
easier said than done but we have little choice and must improve in
our negotiating skills plus all else that goes towards making a good deal
for ourselves

.....on the other hand Brezh is no longer around and we have a man there
who is giving arms to prcland and packland as well -so there's no place for love affairs anymore

we have to be very careful in dealing with today's russia .

that is why i voted "cant say "

 

[archie]

Simple question. If Russia and india were true allies why did india offer no assistance
To Russia During russian invasion of Afghanistan? The relations are overstated.
Why did india play the non aligned role?

Same question .. If paki were training and arming mujahedeen during that war will russia consider pak as a friend or buisness transaction?