Is Letting Pakistan Collapse An Option?

Is Letting Pakistan Collapse An Option?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 84.9%
  • No

    Votes: 7 13.2%
  • can't say

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Total voters
    53

johnee

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China provide 75% of the aid to North Korea, this will not save North korrea when the time comes.
And chinese are meagre spenders since they cannot print currency like the americans. So, no one can fund the Paks like americans have done for past half-a-century or more, not even americans(thanks to economic recession).
 
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And chinese are meagre spenders since they cannot print currency like the americans. So, no one can fund the Paks like americans have done for past half-a-century or more, not even americans(thanks to economic recession).
If USA feels the Chinese are outdoing them in Pakistan and a rivalry develop for influence as it already has this can also hasten the collapse of Pakistan.
 

johnee

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Just a point: How credible are the results obtained from surveys that are conducted in Pakistan(worst secured nation in the region if not world)? To me those surveys are as credible about pakistan as Rahul Gandhi's words are about India....

 

johnee

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If USA feels the Chinese are outdoing them in Pakistan and a rivalry develop for influence as it already has this can also hasten the collapse of Pakistan.
Already, it seems the influence of US has been curtailed and that of Chinese is on rise. But there is no doubt in my mind that Chinese wont dole out largesse like the americans. Chinese are quite miserly...
 
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Already, it seems the influence of US has been curtailed and that of Chinese is on rise. But there is no doubt in my mind that Chinese wont dole out largesse like the americans. Chinese are quite miserly...
After getting Billions from USA, this will not go down well with USA. Pakistan may think they are being smart playing USA and China of each other but they are digging their own grave.
 

johnee

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After getting Billions from USA, this will not go down well with USA. Pakistan may think they are being smart playing USA and China of each other but they are digging their own grave.
But so far, the paks have succeeded. They have milked US and have not done zilch except provide some superficial info or personnels. So, the Paks are justified in assuming that they have been very smart. They played the US in cold war and now they are still playing the US against the China...
 
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But so far, the paks have succeeded. They have milked US and have not done zilch except provide some superficial info or personnels. So, the Paks are justified in assuming that they have been very smart. They played the US in cold war and now they are still playing the US against the China...
There are thousands of BLACKWATER and DYNACORP agents(mercenaries) in all the major Pakistani cities to give Pakistan it's reward for being so smart, when the time comes the collapse and chaos will be quick.

http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/blackwater-dyncorp-in-pakistan-the-denial-farce
Blackwater & DynCorp in Pakistan
 

johnee

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There are thousands of BLACKWATER and DYNACORP agents(mercenaries) in all the major Pakistani cities to give Pakistan it's reward for being so smart, when the time comes the collapse and chaos will be quick.

http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/blackwater-dyncorp-in-pakistan-the-denial-farce
Blackwater & DynCorp in Pakistan
What would US do when the time comes? Dismantle Pak? Denuke Pak? Both? And what would signify that the time has come? What would be the last straw(if there is such a thing)?
 
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What would US do when the time comes? Dismantle Pak? Denuke Pak? Both? And what would signify that the time has come? What would be the last straw(if there is such a thing)?
What happend in Iraq??? If they are there US has sensed the time has come.
 
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johnee

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They would not have been placed there if USA trusted Pakistan and especially in the numbers that have been placed there. USA is not spending billions for them to do nothing.
Agreed. But what tells us that they would go against Pak wholly rather than replace the head(mush/kiyani/ another A-hole...etc)? And when would the red line be crossed? What event would trigger it for US?
 

Vyom

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I am wondering, is not letting Pakistan collapse in our hands? If we think in terms of pure national interest, it is best for us to have Pakistan completely preoccupied with the issues on its western border and its own internal issues. And it is on our national interest that the US keeps closely monitoring the situation from within and even influencing its certain policies.

Otherwise, all leaders of the current league in Pakistan are obsessed with Kashmir and its military's core purposes and needs revolves around India. Until Pakistan gets a leadership who is forthcoming in understanding the fact the childish concepts of insurgencies, terrorists and other hostile means cannot win them Kashmir, it is best that Pakistan remains completely preoccupied with its internal matters. In fact, infightings in Pakistan is what we need. That would eventually show light to the ordinary citizens and may be ignite them to recognize their leadership's fallacies and take things in their own hands. It seems soon we are going to see civil wars emanating in Pakistan, and that I think would be good for both India and Pakistan.
 

neo29

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Probably we asking the wrong question ???

Should India bear Pakistan who will never ever stop exporting terror to India or should India plan its collapse and afford a regional instability due to nuclear weapons in Pak????
 

Yusuf

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Vyom, Waiting for a leader in Pakistan who is well inclined towards India is wishful thinking. You become a leader in Pakistan (a big on at least) by shouting on top of your voice that you hate India and do everything that is anti India.

Also terrorism from there is not something you should call "Childish". Its a well thought out sinister ploy.
 
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anoop_mig25

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China provide 75% of the aid to North Korea, this will not save North korrea when the time comes.
and north korea doesn`t has any strategic area of land mass under its control like pakistan has i.e form china connecting pok till gawdar port form where are u getting such a piece of land at throway fees .

china supports nk only to keep america out form its border heck even they are considering to allow fall of nk if recent wiki-cables are to be belived
 

Phenom

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Is letting Pakistan Collapse an option?

I would say it's the only option that India has. Other options like talking with them, ignoring the terror attacks, trading with them have all been tried and all have failed.

To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, if you tried all other options and failed, then whatever option remains, however improbable, has be followed.

India has tried every other option and failed, but the only problem is that the leaders are just not willing to admit it .
 

thakur_ritesh

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I would most concur with the points raised by ejazr which come across as the most sustainable, and practical given the state of leadership that india finds itself with and that would mean not just the ruling leadership but the one in the opposition as well which might replace the one ruling.

As far as breaking off of pakistan is concerned I don't think it is quite possible till the time america is brought on board and then the most likely target would be baluchistan and that situation wont arise till the time the PA and pakistani elite do as they are told by the US and I think this is something the pakistanis pretty much understand and so they are pretty much ready to do things as they are told not to say there are other benefits attached and some very lucrative ones at that.

Coming to the trade aspect, well for some reason the belief might be that they cant survive without trade with us or they would find it cheaper. Cheaper yes but cant survive wrong, and cheaper to what extent, they are already flooded with ultra cheep chinese products so it cant get anymore cheaper than that, on the contrary it is the black market that survives and makes all the money rather than the state exchequer. The unofficial trade either routed through dubai/singapore or smuggled in through various routes is to the tune of 5-7b usd on top of present two way trade of 2.5b usd with trade figures heavily in india's favor so it is only sensible to make sure all this gets converted into official trade and with the tax collected the same money be better used in development of india. Then there also remains the benefit that if tomorrow there was to be large trade between the two then the dependence of pakistan on us would increase many fold and possibility of bettering the relations that much more.

All said and done it is prudent in india's mid and long term interest that we work on breaking up that artificial state though covertly and the sooner the US is made to understand the rationale the better though having said that it would be a pretty bad idea to have Americans in our immediate neighborhood but if tomorrow Baluchistan were to happen the Americans would station there on long term basis so may be we should try is alone!
 

Ray

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The title of the thread is - Is Letting Pakistan Collapse An Option?

India has no role to play to foist or let Pakistan collapse. Any action by India would not be taken as anything but with suspicion and if anything goes wrong, India would be the cat's paw.

Nobody can help Pakistan since it has become a real complicated issue where all pillars of power in Pakistan are pulling in different direction to suit their own agenda. And such forces are powerful in their own rights.

The Clergy has taken grip of the situation in Pakistan and within itself, there are warring factions clawing for power, apart from quasi charitable organisations, which are but fronts for the face of terror.

The Democratic system is but a cosmetic face of Pakistan, desperate to give a façade to the world that democracy functions, when in actual fact, it is but a toothless paper tiger.

The Army is all powerful and wedded to the fundamentalist thought, ever since Zia's time. Hence, while projecting a false front to the US (to obtain military toys that prop their existence) and at the same time help the fundamentalists so that they can project to the Pakistani public that they are wedded to the religion as and when the Taliban takes over Afghanistan with the ISI's help in all its facets.

In this total confusion and power play, there is also the growth of subnationalism as is being witnessed in Balochistan, Sindh, Balwaristan and by the day it is getting more festering. To this also is the aspirations of the Mohajirs represented by the MQM.

Therefore, given all these tussles, one can hardly be in a position to assist since all these forces cannot be brought on one platform.

Collapse is inevitable in the long run.

The only thing that has to be taken into consideration is that the fallout on neighbouring countries is contained and they are not affected by the outcome.

It is also true that the situation appear ready for collapse, but that actual collapse is apparently still some distance in time away.
 

Vyom

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Vyom, Waiting for a leader in Pakistan who is well inclined towards India is wishful thinking. You become a leader in Pakistan (a big on at least) by shouting on top of your voice that you hate India and do everything that is anti India.
I know that anti-India sentiments are easy tools to find your way into higher granularity of politics there, but I cannot accept that with such history and population, Pakistan does not have people who have the right vision. Of course, a country whose one of the core purposes is made to revolve around animosity with a neighbor can have no bright future. This, I think, is understood by many bright people in Pakistan, and they will eventually have to rise and fight for the right kind of future for their country, if they are patriotic and strong. But I guess they lack the love for their country given the fact that there is nothing to be proud of Pakistan for them. They are not chest thumping, Shariah seeking extremists, and hence it is natural if they are unable to relate to the seemingly popular anti-India sentiments.

But all I wanted to convey is that we can at least hope, before it is too late for Pakistan, that sense will prevail in the future leadership there.

Also terrorism from there is not something you should call "Childish". Its a well thought out sinister ploy.
Indeed the ploy is sinister, but the idea that they can use such cowardly tactics to segregate Kashmir from India is what I am calling childish. How the heck can anyone with certain amount of brain and knowledge even think, that a country as big as India can allow its territory to be compromised, a second time. That is childish indeed.
 

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