Is India a Better Place for Manufacturing Than China?

no smoking

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India has nothing to prove specially to you... read my earlier post... although the rate for growth has fallen so is the inflation which has gone down to one of the lowest in many years ...
Your earlier posts are full of hollow words. India doesn't need to prove to me, but you, my friend, are making a lot of claims which need some evidences to support.

India will grow on its own term...
Ok, what is its own term? India rate?


DELL has already moved out of China to India...
You means this news all over the indian media in 2010:
DailyTech - Updated: Dell Reportedly May Follow Google Out of China, Jumping to India

Lets see what happend later

In 2012
Dell Starts Making Computers In Western China To Help Profit Margin - Forbes
In 2013
Privatized Dell would invest more in China - MarketWatch

Japan is spending billions in India industrial corridor... just to move theirs out of China to India..
Yes, the same words they already shouted for years. The question is: how did they plan to survive after give up the biggiest or second biggiest markets in the world.

Philippines & Vietnam have proved better alternative to China in terns of retunes of investment & skill... Brave Chinese find it difficult to digest...
Oh, really? Can you name one industry moving out of China is due the better worker skills instead of wages & regulation change.


Nor China has the brand name nor the R&D centres of repute... Only Ctrl C & Ctrl V...
Oh, yes, how is india doing? Switch on swich off?



Nobel may not be sole criteria but it does give an indicator to progress in Science & Technology and scientific thinking in a country...
India gave Asia the first Nobel Prize winner... Look at Japan their progress in Science & Technology although after complete destruction post WW-II
Then why on earth your india scientists spent so many years on LCA and Arjun? Why on earth your country is importing a lot of manufacturing products from China every year? We don't need to look at Japan, this is the country already produced its own planes, aircraft carrier and tank long before its first nobel prize.



[/QUOTE]It must be hurting for a SOPA PAWAR in waiting... more to come...Keep up your chin and wait for some more...
Indeed India is Shining Bright !!!
I fully like the way Inida is progressing to challenge China... Next in line is drilling oil from SCS... You are going to love it....[/QUOTE]

We also like the way india is progressing to challenge China, which is on the MOUTH.
 

TrueSpirit

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@no smoking

Want to talk about my post # 19 ? Or conveniently, ignore the facts, as usual ? :lol:
 
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amoy

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@no smoking

Want to talk about my post # 19 ? Or conveniently, ignore the facts, as usual ? :lol:
your #19 talks abt China in financial crisis but how is it related to "India a better place than China for manufacturing"?

Here's an inside-out comparison >>

Yet differences remain in their supplier and logistical capabilities which must be taken into account by the sourcing professional.

Both India and China are capable of world class manufacturing processes. A study performed by the London School of Economics on the supply chains of the two countries' automotive industries found that two-thirds of their domestic suppliers were able to provide inputs with defect rates of less than 100 parts per million – the typical threshold for suppliers in the US, Europe, and Japan. It was observed that both Chinese and Indian auto manufacturers domestically outsourced component production at similarly high rates, suggesting an adequate availability of competent local suppliers. Whereas the study found higher productivity levels in India, in terms of capital intensity, delivery frequency and stock-turn ratios, China had the edge. In a more recent, broader assessment across multiple industries, Deloitte found that the average number of days an item sits in inventory favored China at 24.2 compared to India's 32.5.

Beyond the factory floor, connecting products to end users poses different challenges in China and in India. Within India there is a heavy reliance on roads. Their network is the second largest in the world, behind the US, at over three million kilometres. However, only around half of these roads are paved, and their width is generally too narrow to allow the passage of anything beyond smaller, two-axel trucks. Road transit is further slowed by a fragmented Indian trucking industry and by state border checkpoints. China, in contrast, has a far less extensive network of roads. Out of its million-plus kilometre road network, only around 300,000 kilometres are paved. But what China lacks in actual length, it makes up for by having newer, more passable roads. It has five times the number of multiple lane highways than India.

China also has more transport options available to its supply chains in the form of rail, air, and waterways. Over 78,000 kilometres of terrain are connected by rail in China compared with 63,000 in India. Goods can be flown in and out of China by way of 500 airports whereas there are only 334 locations to take to the sky in India. Thanks to geographical endowments, China also has more navigable waterways. Besides some of the world's most active ports, commerce in China moves on 110,000 kilometres of inland aqueous passageways. This is more advantageous than India's 16,000 kilometres of waterways, particularly in the movement of bulk commodities.

These transportation differences are partially reflected in the World Bank's Logistics Performance Rankings. China is rated the highest of all BRIIC (Brazil, Russia, India, Indonesia and China) countries at 27th in the world. Its comparatively higher scores in customs clearance, infrastructure adequacy, logistics, timeliness and tracking ability place it above India, ranked 47th globally. Some of the largest discrepancies between the two countries are shown in survey data collected by the World Bank. Responders reported much higher frequencies of compulsory warehousing/transloading and involuntary payment solicitation in India, while in China greater expenses were incurred in the form of agent fees.

The infrastructure and logistical differences may explain why India is a more common site for the outsourcing of services, particularly IT services, which do not require a physical good to be brought to market. However, India should not be entirely discredited as a sourcing destination for manufactured goods. Both it and China have allocated over 10% of their GDPs toward infrastructure development which will enhance their future logistical abilities in bringing their products to the world's consumers. The greatest similarity between China and India: neither can be ignored by the sourcing professional.
- See more at: China and India: A Comparison in Sourcing Potential - The China Sourcing Blog

What's your comment on the above sourcing professionals' benchmarking ? Or pls click the link for more data.
 
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TrueSpirit

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your #19 talks abt China in financial crisis but how is it related to "India a better place than China for manufacturing"?
Seriously, you do not see any connection ?

Here's an inside-out comparison >>
- See more at: China and India: A Comparison in Sourcing Potential - The China Sourcing Blog

What's your comment on the above sourcing professionals' benchmarking ? Or pls click the link for more data.
No one is even comparing the ease of doing business in China w.r.t India. India is a far, far difficult country to do business in, despite having equal measure of corruption when compared to China (even though, the comparison is subjective). India does not have any "single-window-clearance" structure. And, business environment is simply, inefficient.

But in absence of ready credit in ample quantity, how attractive a manufacturing destination remains, is something that would be revealed soon.
 

huaxia rox

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Indian economy is in a crisis: Study - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The Indian economy is in a crisis with growth slowing down, fiscal and current account deficits running high amid persistent inflation, says a study by an economic think tank.

"The Indian economy is in a crisis. While the growth rate has been declining...the issue (of high CAD) gets amplified against the backdrop of slowing economy, high fiscal deficit and persistent inflation," National Council of Applied Economic Research said.

India's current account deficit (CAD) rose to a record 6.7 per cent in the quarter ended December of 2012-13.

Attributing high CAD to GDP ratio slowdown in exports and increase in imports of oil, coal and gold, NCAER said the high CAD requires high foreign investment.

"This might be a risky proposition given the global financial volatility and keeping in view the interests of foreign investors," it said.

The study said that the persistent increase will lead to macroeconomic risk as it raises concerns about economy's ability to honour its external payments obligations. "It also affects the confidence of potential lenders and investors."

The NCAER study said there is a need to boost exports of merchandise and hence lower the deficit on balance of trade.

As per the study, manufacturing in India is still not internationally competitive in several sectors of production.

"Some long-term factors that need attention involve infrastructure, labour laws and governance reforms...moving to goods and services tax ( GST) would add to India's global competitiveness in manufactured goods," NCAER said.

It further said India should play a pro-active role in strengthening its trade integration with other Asian nations.

"India's trade and investment relations with Asia will play a major role in boosting its exports in the Asian century," the study said.

Also, India should strengthen its bilateral agreements and help bring about foreign trade agreements in groupings such as ASEAN+6 nations, it added.

The six countries outside ASEAN are Australia, China, India, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand.
 

huaxia rox

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India’s Gold Fetish Is Killing Its Economy | Business Insider Australia

Investors are fleeing the yellow metal, whose price has slumped more than 10 per cent over the past three months.

But Indians are so gold crazy they're sacrificing their currency and their country's economy in the bargain.

By buying up billions of dollars worth of foreign gold, they are sending Indian cash overseas, disrupting the balance money entering and leaving the country, and thus driving down the value of the rupee. That in turn makes key imports *more costly*, and makes it harder for business to pay international loans.

"If for one year there are no gold imports, it will change the current account deficit story of the country," said Finance Minister P. Chidambaram on Thursday. "Indians think they are buying gold in rupees. Actually they are buying gold in dollars."

India is the world's biggest gold importer, soaking up a third of the world's supply every year. Gold is the country's biggest foreign purchase after oil. The impact? The current account deficit (the net outflow of money) is 5.4 per cent of GDP, about double what economists recommend.

"I once again appeal to everyone to resist the temptation to buy gold," Chidambaram said. "This will show positive impact on every aspect of the Indian economy."

While India's current account deficit is too high, the real concern is whether enough money is flowing into the country to make up the difference, Bibek Debroy, an economist affiliated with the New Delhi-based centre for Policy Research, told GlobalPost. And there things get extra tricky.

"The worry for the government really is that whatever capital inflows we have are in the nature of portfolio investments" — such as stock purchases — "which tend to come and go," Debroy said. In contrast, direct investment in factories and in other ventures tend to carry long-term benefits, and the capital remains regardless of short term market fluctuations.

"So we should really be asking, 'Why aren't investments coming in?' — rather than picking on people who are buying gold."

According to Chidambaram, India's gold imports fell from an average of $135 million in the first half of May to $36 million in the second half of the month, but he neglected to mention the reason: This year the Akshaya Tritiya festival, the second-biggest holiday for buying gold, fell on May 13.

The post-holiday lull gave some relief to the central bank, which on Tuesday was forced to intervene in currency markets to bring the rupee back from its lowest level against the dollar in history (58.98 rupees to the greenback).

But the rupee resumed its fall after the finance minister's speech Thursday. And the dip in gold demand is likely only to be temporary — because for Indians gold is more than an investment.

Gold is synonymous with savings and security for many of India's 1.24 billion people, for a variety of reasons. Only about 36,000 of India's 650,000 villages have a bank branch. And minimum balances and other requirements mean that house maids, security guards and construction workers hold much of their assets in gold coins and jewelry as a hedge against bad times, when they can be sold or used as a collateral with the local moneylender.

Moreover, the metal's cultural importance makes it essential for weddings and various other ceremonies. Even bankers and lawyers still think of buying gold jewelry as a foolproof financial strategy. And with both the capital markets and real estate losing luster lately, India's wealthy have emerged as a new class of gold buyers.

"Traditionally, there's always been a demand for gold. But what has added to that in the last four years or so is a different kind of demand. That is a demand for gold that I would call investment," said Debroy.

"There is quite a bit of investment in gold now that is actually in bullion."

Consider this: Even though gold prices have plunged from more than $1800 in November to around $1400 an ounce last month, the World Gold Council has forecast that India's gold imports for April-June would amount to almost half the total imported in 2012.

Bad investment? Probably. Experts say a rise in gold prices is unlikely without a big slump in the US stock market or in the value of the dollar, neither of which seems likely. And even long term, gold prices tend to skyrocket and plunge because there's paltry "real" business demandfor the yellow metal, with investors who buy gold and sit on it as an investment accounting for more than half of the volume purchased every year.

For the Indian economy, however, the gold obsession is worse than a poor investment. Unlike buying stocks or bonds, parking money in gold slows, rather than stimulates, economic growth by sucking cash out of the system. (In contrast, even oil imports, while bad for the trade deficit, literally fuel industry).

Meanwhile, a growing trade deficit forces the country to devalue its currency – for India, about 10 per cent a year for the past two decades. Those plunging values scare people out of rupees, and foreign funds out of India. That, in turn, means less investment and slower growth, and thus a further weakening rupee.
 

huaxia rox

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your #19 talks abt China in financial crisis but how is it related to "India a better place than China for manufacturing"?
personally i dont think there is any financial crisis in prc now.

1 the slow of economy is due to the fact that the us and especially eu have not fully recovered from their real financial crisis. export sector is a huge one to us so we are affacted.

2 the different china bubble theories be it real estate or what are relatively small in scale and solvable. we have huge reserve in different kinds to offest all these if the worst thing happens. rmb is going record high after recorg high against us dollar. only stupid people would ever think there is a major problem here.

3 believe or not the process of further urbanization can wipe off basically all the bubbles in prc. thats an relatively easy process which only needs time and money of which we both have so i would rather watch out how the process of so called 'Industrial restructuring and elimination of backward production capacity' is going. i think this has to be another success but when doing this during world economy crisis some sectors in prc would have to suffer.
 

no smoking

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@no smoking

Want to talk about my post # 19 ? Or conveniently, ignore the facts, as usual ? :lol:
Ok, just as these experts in your post mentioned:" this is a large black box!", these people in your post, they don't know, honestly I don't know either! So, the "facts" in your post are simply GUESS at the best! Come one, how many times China should have collapsed according to these people's opinion since 1989?

BUT, I don't deny that China is having lots of big problems inside and China may collapse due to them. Just remember, China is a developing country which is expanding its economy at the highest speed the history ever saw. This speed along with this scale means only one thing: the biggiest risk on a country level. After all, nothing comes with free.

That is also why I doubt india's future in manufacturing: you don't want to take risks and you don't want to pay for what you want.
 
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TrueSpirit

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Ok, just as these experts in your post mentioned:" this is a large black box!", these people in your post, they don't know, honestly I don't know either! So, the "facts" in your post are simply GUESS at the best! Come one, how many times China should have collapsed according to these people's opinion since 1989?

BUT, I don't deny that China is having lots of big problems inside and China may collapse due to them. Just remember, China is a developing country which is expanding its economy at the highest speed the history ever saw. This speed along with this scale means only one thing: the biggiest risk on a country level. After all, nothing comes with free.

That is also why I doubt india's future in manufacturing: you don't want to take risks and you don't want to pay for what you want.
Nice analysis & articulation. I am in agreement with what your takeaway.

But "Indian entrepreneurs" are known for taking risks, world over. I mean, entrepreneurship is considered to be in Indian blood, since millenniums. If you feel like, you can do a little googling to know about the myriad Indian entrepreneurs all over the world (not just in the West: UK, US, Canada, Australia etc. but also in South American, Central & West Asian countries & throughout Africa). Most of them are in influential positions (politically, academically, technically, economically, etc.). Our diaspora particularity is known for what you are talking about, taking risks marked by a defined "go-getter" attitude. You are going to find "n" number of examples.

But more often than not, these are calculated risks taken at a pragmatic, methodical pace. Copy-paste imitation of West or China simply does not work here, so there are few takers for such ersatz. One cannot expect any "Great Leap forward" or "some revolutionary levels" of growth in India.

Simply put, one thing that you can bet on is, that India's average growth would forever be slower than China's peak growth (for obvious reasons), but it would be lot more sustained, backed by strong fundamentals both on domestic as well as external fronts, & all-inclusive.

Again, I expect you to know the reasons. Some half-hearted, bureaucratic & political reforms are also underway. Read about RTI, RTE etc. in India. Manufacturing is already picking up in India at a comfortable pace by most global MNC's. You could read about R&D, design or manufacturing operations of most global conglomerates on their respective websites & a really sizeable Indian presence in guaranteed to be there.
 

no smoking

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But "Indian entrepreneurs" are known for taking risks, world over. I mean, entrepreneurship is considered to be in Indian blood, since millenniums. If you feel like, you can do a little googling to know about the myriad Indian entrepreneurs all over the world (not just in the West: UK, US, Canada, Australia etc. but also in South American, Central & West Asian countries & throughout Africa). Most of them are in influential positions (politically, academically, technically, economically, etc.). Our diaspora particularity is known for what you are talking about, taking risks marked by a defined "go-getter" attitude. You are going to find "n" number of examples.
For every individual, "entrepreneus" is good for his or her business, because profit is the ultimate goal. On country level, if you follow the way of "entrepreneus", you will never be able to compete with those from developed countries. Yes, that is one of india problems. You can always find some foreign products with better quality and cheaper price, then why waste money and energy to build your own?
Yes, I believe lots of indians are willing to take any risk as long as they can see the profit in next couple of years. But I really don't believe any of them will do the same thing if they can't earn any money in next 30-40 years! Yes, my friend, that is how eastern asia made it happen: keep producing junk products for 30-40 years and force your own people to buy it even they are so bad and so dangerous.


But more often than not, these are calculated risks taken at a pragmatic, methodical pace. Copy-paste imitation of West or China simply does not work here, so there are few takers for such ersatz. One cannot expect any "Great Leap forward" or "some revolutionary levels" of growth in India.
Yes, that is right: after carefully calculating the risk, there is no one with "entrepreneus" would want to do that: comparing to remote profit, the risk is simply too high! That is also why there are very few countries industrilized since 1945.

Simply put, one thing that you can bet on is, that India's average growth would forever be slower than China's peak growth (for obvious reasons), but it would be lot more sustained, backed by strong fundamentals both on domestic as well as external fronts, & all-inclusive.
Ok, tell me what is our strong fundamentals domestically and internationally.

Again, I expect you to know the reasons. Some half-hearted, bureaucratic & political reforms are also underway. Read about RTI, RTE etc. in India. Manufacturing is already picking up in India at a comfortable pace by most global MNC's. You could read about R&D, design or manufacturing operations of most global conglomerates on their respective websites & a really sizeable Indian presence in guaranteed to be there.
These global MNCs are coming to india for market, cheaper labours and cheaper resources. Building india manufacturing is not their concern: They can help you to assemble something, but they will never teach how to produce the key parts; they will give you some know-how which would be 10-20 years ago technology; they will ask you to do some R&D, but they will make sure you never know the whole system. My friend, as a country tyring to be industrilized, you haven't start yet.
 

The Last Stand

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Still kind of surprised that Indian healthcare and education are so, so, so terrible.
I don't agree with the healthcare part. My hometown, Chennai, regularly receives 300-400 foreign patients every month and they all say that treatment is of the same quality that they received in the west and also that the price is much lower.

BTW Both my parents are doctors, my dad alone has treated several Africans and Europeans.

There isn't proper transportation for getting the wounded to hospitals incase of accidents :(

But the article is true, whether my brain wants to accept it or not.
 

TrueSpirit

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For every individual, "entrepreneus" is good for his or her business, because profit is the ultimate goal. On country level, if you follow the way of "entrepreneus", you will never be able to compete with those from developed countries. Yes, that is one of india problems. You can always find some foreign products with better quality and cheaper price, then why waste money and energy to build your own?
Yes, I believe lots of indians are willing to take any risk as long as they can see the profit in next couple of years. But I really don't believe any of them will do the same thing if they can't earn any money in next 30-40 years! Yes, my friend, that is how eastern asia made it happen: keep producing junk products for 30-40 years and force your own people to buy it even they are so bad and so dangerous.

No takers for junk here, when we have the access & purchasing power to acquire, the best that technology has to offer.

Yes, that is right: after carefully calculating the risk, there is no one with "entrepreneus" would want to do that: comparing to remote profit, the risk is simply too high! That is also why there are very few countries industrilized since 1945.
Our entrepreneurs are doing it all over the world, not just in India. They own the the world's largest steel-making company (now, its your homework to find out the details), some of the most modern & large capacity oil refineries in this region & there is no dearth of such examples. Indian diaspora is known for dominating the business, political, economic & academic sphere in most countries they have a presence in (virtually the entire globe). You can read about Indians in UK, US, Canada, South Africa, etc. So, your assertions are absolutely invalid.

Ok, tell me what is our strong fundamentals domestically and internationally.
Not China's. It is India's fundamentals that are strong. For starters, consider India's domestic demand alone, we are one of the world's fastest growing market with ample purchasing power. Unlike China's complete dependence on US/Japan & EU's imports of its good for its economic survival, it is not the case in India. India's domestic demand is so huge that it keeps the economic fundamentals sound & relatively unperturbed by external disturbances.

By GDP PPP, we are already the 3rd biggest economy in world & this is when India has just started its journey of becoming a global manufacturing destination. You can imagine how is the picture going to be, with the world's major companies relocating & off-shoring more & more of their businesses in India. The process was started around a decade back & now, Chennai is already Detroit of Asia. Maybe, you should brush-up your knowledge of current affairs a little bit.

These global MNCs are coming to india for market, cheaper labours and cheaper resources.
Oh, didn't know that, we thought they are here for charity. Let me share with you the biggest attraction of India: its the unparalleled demographic advantage of a talented manpower pool. There is simply no competition to India in the world, when it comes to a professional talent base at affordable costs.

Building india manufacturing is not their concern: They can help you to assemble something, but they will never teach how to produce the key parts; they will give you some know-how which would be 10-20 years ago technology; they will ask you to do some R&D, but they will make sure you never know the whole system. My friend, as a country tyring to be industrilized, you haven't start yet.
Oh really. Looks like you have no idea how things work. Assembly & screw-driver work happens in China. China is the assembly line of the world.

What happens in India is R&D, design & planning, manufacturing from raw materials (we have it in abundance & we export it to everyone including China) & technical/semi-technical/customer support. Which world are you from ?

Regarding sharing tech, India hardly expects or needs it from anyone, except in defence manufacturing (something which no one is going to transfer to anyone).

Regarding "knowing the whole system", please understand the simple fact that: when end-to-end systems & solutions are being architect-ed, designed & developed in by Indians in India (from top to bottom), where is question of sharing it. We literally own the systems.

To put things in perspective, one extremely trifle personal example: I am a junior-mid level Research Technologist in world's biggest IT company, in its R&D wing. Role is Technical Architect. In last 12 fiscal quarters alone, I personally have owned (the project, as an Individual Contributor), designed & developed 4 such end-to-end solution stacks (you call them IaaS Cloud systems) that are being leveraged by internet giants like Google & Facebook as well as few BFSI giants (wouldn't prefer to name them), in their global datacenters. These solutions stacks were designed, developed & manufactured & is being supported from, within India (within a radius of 300 kms) & are generating millions of dollars every quarter. So, I not only know the system out & out, I literally own these systems & impart knowledge transfers to my colleagues in US, Australia & Nordic countries, off & on.

Icing on the cake, we file invention disclosures (IP applications) & receive patents in our name from USPTO. We own the IP in a globally legal manner. Unlike our friends.

This is one very minor example. There are thousands of Indians in my own campus buildings who are doing way bigger things than I am, & are at the forefront of cutting-edge technology that has not touched market yet (some may never see enterprise market altogether for different reasons).

There are countless Indian & foreign MNC's in India (across all domains including manufacturing) that are owned, manned & run by Indians, residing within India that are responsible for global operations & cater to global market. The scale, itself, at which such things are happening here, is mind-boggling.

Looks like you are quite out of touch with contemporary reality, & the changes in the landscape in last 3 decades. Please keep you jingo-ism & insecurity aside for a while & try to read a bit. An objective & open mindset would help. You must be knowledgeable in your own realm but some additional relevant knowledge won't harm.
 
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t_co

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Our entrepreneurs are doing it all over the world, not just in India. They own the the world's largest steel-making company (now, its your homework to find out the details), some of the most modern & large capacity oil refineries in this region & there is no dearth of such examples. Indian diaspora is known for dominating the business, political, economic & academic sphere in most countries they have a presence in (virtually the entire globe). You can read about Indians in UK, US, Canada, South Africa, etc. So, your assertions are absolutely invalid.
@TrueSpirit What does it tell you when the most successful "Indian" entrepreneurs are largely found abroad, as citizens of other countries?

I think most Chinese members of DFI will tell you that there is nothing wrong with Indians - but there is something deeply wrong with the Indian government, especially as it relates to economic development.
 
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t_co

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What happens in India is R&D, design & planning, manufacturing from raw materials (we have it in abundance & we export it to everyone including China) & technical/semi-technical/customer support. Which world are you from ?
That sort of stuff happens in China, too, and to a greater degree than in India.

http://www.globelicsacademy.net/2013_pdf/Presentations/Mani/MANI Lecture 2 GA Tampere.pdf

The only high-tech industry where India could be said to "beat" China would be in IT services. In every other sector and across every other measurement, China's economy is more technology-intensive than India's is.
 

nimo_cn

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The post above is really lifting my spirit.

What a shining and promising coutry! There is no reason that Indians should not be proud.

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nimo_cn

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That sort of stuff happens in China, too, and to a greater degree than in India.

http://www.globelicsacademy.net/2013_pdf/Presentations/Mani/MANI Lecture 2 GA Tampere.pdf

The only high-tech industry where India could be said to "beat" China would be in IT services. In every other sector and across every other measurement, China's economy is more technology-intensive than India's is.
Why cant you accept the fact that Indians own the future?

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t_co

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Why cant you accept the fact that Indians own the future?

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Based on HDI indicators, access to natural resources (including energy resources), and demographics, Africa has a better chance of owning the future than India does.

The only difference it has versus India is a lack of political unity. Of course, I'm not sure having the Lok Sabha and UPA/BJP saying hello to you from Delhi is really such a great thing in the long run.
 

TrueSpirit

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@TrueSpirit What does it tell you when the most successful "Indian" entrepreneurs are largely found abroad, as citizens of other countries?
Well, most of them continue to retain & brandish their Indian citizenship. But, lion's share share of their business being done abroad means they cater to a global market, irrespective of geographies. And second, Indian business environment is no cakewalk. It's extremely competitive, given the inherent entrepreneur zeal. Finally, it tells that Indian bureaucracy is yet to wake up from its slumber in modernizing the business-regulatory environment.

I think most Chinese members of DFI will tell you that there is nothing wrong with Indians - but there is something deeply wrong with the Indian government, especially as it relates to economic development.[/QUOTE]

There is hardly anything ever wrong with individuals; the system is to be blamed, right ? But, who makes the nurture the system ? The Individuals, isn't it?

Finally, what our Chinese friends fail to realize that our govt. is chosen by us. We have an absolute free hand & decide who is going to lead/represent us at all levels. So, any systematic failure cannot be blamed at govt. alone.

We know, this govt. did not perform as expected. So what, we would change it. We run the show here, friends. No dictators here :lol: There is no stopping us.
 
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TrueSpirit

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That sort of stuff happens in China, too
Now, have I ever contested that ?

and to a greater degree than in India.
Highly debatable. That's a subjective, generalizing statement.

The only high-tech industry where India could be said to "beat" China would be in IT services. In every other sector and across every other measurement, China's economy is more technology-intensive than India's is.
That's a partially correct statement but, story of a passing era. The work that I see increasingly dominating the employment market is R&D, design, manufacturing, & lessening tech. support or customer support .Our young manpower advantage, cost-arbitrage, professional communication skills, academic excellence & few other advantages are too massive to be compared with anyone, especially compared to an aging workforce like China, whose economy has already saturated its potential & is already on decline, now.

Where as, India is just getting started. Think about it, shedding xenophobic mindset aside for a while.
 

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