Is China About to Get Its Military Jet Engine Program Off the Ground?

Apollyon

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Most real warplanes radar cost 8-12 million per plane. How good will a radar be
in a 20 million dollar plane?
Pakis Claim KLJ-7 on JF-17 to be on par with F-16 Block 25/30 ... and the one which will be on JF-17 Blk 2 (tweaked KLJ-7) will outperform the radar of F-16 Block-52 .. :rofl:

PS .. can some one explain me what do they mean by "tweaked"
 
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It is useless discussing technology with Chinese they have no transparency
and can never provide links or proof to anything?

simple questions still unanswered for year:

where do you have thrust data for ws-10?
what radar are the Chinese using?
what generation is ws-10 engine and why??

not one link provided for anything.
 
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Pakis Claim KLJ-7 on JF-17 to be on par with F-16 Block 25/30 ... and the one which will be on JF-17 Blk 2 (tweaked KLJ-7) will outperform the radar of F-16 Block-52 .. :rofl:

PS .. can some one explain me what do they mean by "tweaked"
Turbofan blades are still being imported from Russia.

Info on radar from Janes:

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China), Airborne radar systems

Type
Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR).

Description
The KLJ-7 Fire Control Radar (FCR), also referred to as Type 1478, employs a mechanically-scanned, phased-array antenna and is the main radar set for the Chengdu Aircraft Industries/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex FC-1/JF-17 fighter aircraft. A derivative of the KLJ-7, and likely employing a larger diameter array, the KLJ-10/J-10A, is believed to have been installed in the Chengdu J-10 fighter aircraft.In terms of development, the J-7 is reportedly similar in basic design to Phazotron N010 Zhuk family of radars; both Phazotron NIIR and rival radar house NIIP have worked closely in the past with Chinese radar design bureaux and provided technical assistance as well as operational models of Russia-made radar sets that were used as benchmarks in the process of Chinese firms developing their own designs. Nanjing have also reportedly drawn on the Galileo Avionica/Finmeccanica Grifo and the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Elta-2032 in developing their own radar designs. While the basic configuration of the J-7 may be similar to that of the Zhuk family, Nanjing utilises Chinese-made electronic components, multi-layered circuit boards, etc.The J-7 has multiple modes, both Beyond Visual Range (BVR) and close-in air-to-air modes, ground surveillance and a robust anti-jamming capability, according to Chinese sources. The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in Track-While-Scan (TWS) mode and can engage two targets simultaneously at BVR. The detection range for targets with an radar-cross section of up to 3 square metres is 75 km look-up, or 35 km in look-down mode.
 

shiphone

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We had 69 Mig-29s at the time the article was written. MKIs must be quite accurate. Officially 137 were in squadrons by the end of the 2011.
the 69 is a quite old data...the Mig29UPG contract revealed in Apr 2011 shows that IAF operates 62 Mig29 then. as we knew, 1 more lost in Oct 2011.

On the raising ceremony of the No.102 Sq in Mar 2012.the spokesman of IAF said the MKI number is around 125 by then...it's quite reasonable that 18*6=108 Plus some more jets in some testing and tactices training units and No.102 Sq recieved the first batch of 4 on that day.

------------------------------------
back to the topic, acctually there are many jet engine projects are under development..the biggest reveal of these projects were on the Zhuhai Airshow 09 in Nov 2009 ...I would like to bring some info here to support the topic discussion later.
 
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J20!

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Does all the pictures and blabbering explains why need to import the engines?
The original J11A/Su27SK and the J10A can only carry the AL-31F and AL-31FN respectively. The Taihang will not fit in either of their engine bays. Thus WS10A's are only being fitted to new build aircraft such as the J11B, J11BS, the J15 and new build J10B prototypes. Engines have a fixed service life, thus it is necessary to order their replacements from time to time. But predictably, when ever that order is placed, there rises a huge fuss over how China cant build its own engines, usually in this very forum.
 

J20!

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well let me make u very clear that J11b was the pirated version of Su 30 MKK which russians dont want to sell their AL 31F engines .So chinese were determined to induct J11b so they decided WS 10a is the only option left.
J11B is a modified Su27SK, not an MKK.

And I don't know about you, but if you don't want to sell engines to China, would you over the last 2 decades sell over 1000 copies of said engine to the Chinese air force, the most recent sale being a 123 engine batch?? The Russians would love nothing more than to sell China as many AL series engines as they can, But we all know of China's will to be militarily independent, thus our own engine programmes.

But until the AL-31 dependent Su30 MKK, J10A and J11A leave service, there is nothing to do but buy more AL's.
 

p2prada

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the 69 is a quite old data...the Mig29UPG contract revealed in Apr 2011 shows that IAF operates 62 Mig29 then. as we knew, 1 more lost in Oct 2011.
We don't know why the others are not being refurbished, but 62 was only for the contract. Maybe the other 7, or 6 today, aircraft are not upgradeable for some reason, maybe structural integrity or cannibalization of parts.

On the raising ceremony of the No.102 Sq in Mar 2012.the spokesman of IAF said the MKI number is around 125 by then...it's quite reasonable that 18*6=108 Plus some more jets in some testing and tactices training units and No.102 Sq recieved the first batch of 4 on that day.
According to HAL the 99th Indian made MKI came out of production line in November 2011. This number includes the knock down kits supplied by Russia after the 2007 contract for 40 more with final deliveries of 12 this year apart from 21 deliveries from HAL this year.

Desi Sukhoi does supersonic ballet on debut | Sukhoi | Indian Air Force | The New Indian Express

18 of the Ks were replaced with 18 MKIs between 2007 and 2009 for, I think, $250Million or $270Million.
Add that to the 50 delivered by Russia, we have 149 by Nov, 2011.

------------------------------------
back to the topic, acctually there are many jet engine projects are under development..the biggest reveal of these projects were on the Zhuhai Airshow 09 in Nov 2009 ...I would like to bring some info here to support the topic discussion later.
Willing to wait. More than WS-10 I am looking forward to how the WS-13 has progressed. Our smaller neighbour is the bigger enemy after all.
 

Drsomnath999

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J11B is a modified Su27SK, not an MKK.
sorry i forgot to read my own article post #563 before posting that wrong info
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/19558-china-worlds-greatest-copycat-38.html
And I don't know about you, but if you don't want to sell engines to China, would you over the last 2 decades sell over 1000 copies of said engine to the Chinese air force, the most recent sale being a 123 engine batch?? The Russians would love nothing more than to sell China as many AL series engines as they can, But we all know of China's will to be militarily independent, thus our own engine programmes.
well u dont need to know about me ,& sorry i dont make /sell engines :dude:

But until the AL-31 dependent Su30 MKK, J10A and J11A leave service, there is nothing to do but buy more AL's.
but what about induction of J10b ???? DO u have any latest news about it
 

The enlightened

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shiphone

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those 18 Su30K replaced between 2007 and 2009?...another legend
.
I'm afraid that they were still lined up on the unused runway in Pune AB by the date of 6th May 2011.


and a jet coming out of Production line doesn't mean entering into service.....again, around 130, 7 Sq.s of MKIs in IAF by March 2012 is quite reasonable....
 
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Drsomnath999

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It might be very well possible that they did copy some systems of Su 30MKK and used it for making the 'improved' J11B.
well the Chinese knew that Russians wont sell top of the shelf products to them instead they would sell downgraded version of Su 27/30 fighters to them .
So the solution was them to upgrade those systems indigeniously & built their own system & the answer was J11b Yes J11b is superior to SU 30 MKK
in terms of technology .We have to accept it if we are rational .Yes they copied /also took some foreign help like ISREAL (classified thing)

COPY Or indigeniuos Or buying weapon it doent matter ,all that counts in war which side has technologically superior weapon .
 

s002wjh

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well the Chinese knew that Russians wont sell top of the shelf products to them instead they would sell downgraded version of Su 27/30 fighters to them .
So the solution was them to upgrade those systems indigeniously & built their own system & the answer was J11b Yes J11b is superior to SU 30 MKK
in terms of technology .We have to accept it if we are rational .Yes they copied /also took some foreign help like ISREAL (classified thing)

COPY Or indigeniuos Or buying weapon it doent matter ,all that counts in war which side has technologically superior weapon .
pretty much when it come to national security, there is only winning and losing. right and wrong take the back stage.
 

Drsomnath999

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pretty much when it come to national security, there is only winning and losing. right and wrong take the back stage.
well of course everything is fair in love & war .
we should consider one thing that unlike India china didnt had access to cutting edge weapons technology after 1991 tianmanen square tragedy ,but still
by hook or crook they got access those western technology & built weapons to give them a fighting force equivalent to western standards.
 

p2prada

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those 18 Su30K replaced between 2007 and 2009?...another legend
.
I'm afraid that they were still lined up on the unused runway in Pune AB by the date of 6th May 2011.


and a jet coming out of Production line doesn't mean entering into service.....again, around 130, 7 Sq.s of MKIs in IAF by March 2012 is quite reasonable....
There is official confirmation that the Su-30Ks have been sent to Belarus a few months ago. We had the 18 Ks well after the 18 MKIs were delivered. We had them till now because Russia and Belarus had not yet agreed on their contract. I think the 18Ks flew to Belarus in September-October, 2011.

Take-off Magazine : Indian Air Force to order more Su-30MKI
Later on, 18 more fighters of the type arrived in 2008–2009 under a "trade-in" deal clinched in 2007 as a replacement of 18 Su-30Ks delivered in late 1990s
Very old news. These were in mint condition while the other 40 came in CKDs. Pictures were posted all over the internet when the first production type rolled out in Russia in 2008.

Btw, we will be getting our first two Brahmos capable Super 30s this year.
 

s002wjh

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well of course everything is fair in love & war .
we should consider one thing that unlike India china didnt had access to cutting edge weapons technology after 1991 tianmanen square tragedy ,but still
by hook or crook they got access those western technology & built weapons to give them a fighting force equivalent to western standards.
yea. lack access to western tech also force china to do their own R&D, and close the technology gap anyway it can including esponiage, steal, reverse engineer, and good old fashing R&D. i don't blame them since if the situation were reversed, US would do the same. even though china is the largest US trade partner, they are also competitors, economy & influence (US try to keep its influence in asia, while china try to gain it). china doesn't want a 96 taiwan happen again.
 

badguy2000

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IAF SU 30 mki had canards & canards have extra advantage in generating lift & high AoA .
that is what Russians once told you when they marketed su30 to you.

but they later gave up canard on their more advanced su35 and last version of su27 for russian air force...

BTW, now russians even tell you that T50 is more advanced than F22 and their su35 is more advanced than rafale and ef2000,do you believe it?
 
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satish007

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difference is that China will invest 10 billion USD on R&D of domestic engine industry while India will invest 10 billion USD on importing foreign bird such as rafale ...
Indian's version different is their 10 biilion bird will kill your all birds and destroy your R&D factories so please invite 100 billion that will be better target
 

satish007

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Which is better?? Buying and getting TOT or spending decades to develop?
China will use neither, Chinese have enough money to get enough planes to counter India, and the spare money, we are pleased to spend them to get LV and what's hell Chinese still have many so we spend them to R&D. what? we still have many,ok , China Pakistani bhai bhai
 
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