Iran Nuclear Issue - Old World Order responsible

[asianobserve]

So, the race for nukes has to be seen as a race for survival(of countries or its rulers). It is not a race for power only...

Thank you for your reminder. Does this justifies Iran's nukes in your eyes? For if it does then every country is justified in acquiring nukes...

 

[pankaj nema]

The Iranians are marching along in their quest for nuclear weapons (alleged). Just some time back North Korea went nuclear. Though I don't want to put India in the same league as the nations mentioned so far, India too went nuclear which invited a tit for tat response from Pakistan. Israel is an undeclared nuclear power. South Africa was on its way before giving up. Several oter countries have been in quest of acquiring nuclear weapons. The one thing in common is that they are all third world previously colonized countries who for long loved under poverty. Over a period they were under one pretext or the other sanctioned and denied advanced technology by the old world.

Over a period of time, these nations using their resources both natural and human have been rising out of their poverty which was the result of the previous colonization by the west. The west which develops and holds advanced tech probably does not want most of these nations to rise to challenge their own pre-eminence. The west particularly holds advanced defense technology which it uses to force its will on others. We have seen enough examples of this over the years.

The old world over the years developed sanctions and technology denial regimes while it kept weapons of mass destruction in large numbers. It developed means like NPT, CTBT, MTCR but very steadfastly refused to get rid of all weapons of mass destruction for good though they have cut down their active arsenal partly because they could not afford them anymore.


The only way out for the countries in question was to acquire a deterrent. The west has over the years attempted regime change and implemented them as well. The acquiring of nuclear weapons rightly or wrongly gives a sense of security Libya which pursued nuclear weapons and then gave up, ultimately saw a regime change. On the other hand, North Korea which exploded an atomic bomb has been handled with kid gloves.

The "old world order" and it's hypocritical polices is what has made the world a more dangerous place.

There is no such thing as an old or new world order . This idea of a " new " world order means that OLD superpowers
have disappeared

That is wrong .

Only thing that has happened recently is the ECONOMIC rise of countries such as India China Brazil Turkey South Africa and Indonesia

And the RELATIVE economic decline of Russia

P 5 Countries were militarily and technologically strong earlier too and they are still strong plus they
are the recognised N powers

 

[The Messiah]

Nobody is ignoring anything. I cannot answer for the West why it opposed India's acquisition of nuke tech and weapons. I can only assume that it had something to do with proliferation (you think the US had plans to level India with thermo nuclear weapons?).

Look I can no longer wish that America or India shouldn't have acquired nukes, this is water under the bridge, I am concerned now only of proliferation. After Iran, who is/are next? You cannot deny that the ME is a very unstable region and we simply cannot predict what will happen to their nukes (if they acquire them) down the road. The worry would even be more serious once their oil wells and revenues start drying up...

They didn't want India to have it because they dont want India to become a powerful country.

I can understand why iran wants nukes but i dont support them having nukes. Even if the middle east was a liberal dove and stable i wouldn't want them to have nukes. Why ? because fewer the countries with nukes the better it is stratigically for India because we have an edge over them. Its a simple power tussle and nothing to do with houlier than thou freedom & democracy vs evil shit that the west peddles.

 

[pankaj nema]

Iran is just a ROUGE state It is NOT a claimant to any so called " new " world order

And it seeks N weapons ONLY to BLACKMAIL the world

 

[asianobserve]

They didn't want India to have it because they dont want India to become a powerful country.

You have your priorities wrong. Nukes will not make you a powerful country your people and economy will. You think Pakistan is a powerful country?

 

[pankaj nema]

Ever since the Iranian revolution ;Iranians have displayed tremendous hostility for the west

" Death to America" is like saying " Good Morning " for them

If the Iranians would have minded their own business like North Korea and Myanmar then they would not
be considered as threats by the west

Even Gulf countries such as Saudi who are passionate about the Palestinian cause DO NOT call
for wiping out Israel

 

[The Messiah]

Ever since the Iranian revolution ;Iranians have displayed tremendous hostility for the west

Death to America is like a " Good Morning " to them

If the Iranians would have minded their own business like North Korea and Myanmar then they would not
be considered as threats by the west

Even Gulf countries such as Saudi who are passionate about the Palestinian cause DO NOT call
for wiping out Israel

iran was a secular leftist democracy in 1953 and kicked out western oil companies plundering its oil by nationalizing the oil companies (like we nationalized many companies in India). In response the cia and mi5 overthrew the govt and installed a puppet dictator known as the shah who brutally cracked on anyone against his regime. After a few decades of his rule the mullah brigrade overthrew him. rest you know....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

infact mullah brigrade would be overthrown internally by iranians but this confrontation plays right into the hands of the mullah brigrade internally to get support because afterall no one wishes foreign force to invades ones own country.

gulf rulers are all puppets.

 

[pankaj nema]

India becoming a N power was just a matter of time .Even the west knew it was coming

It was just the US ego that was preventing them from accepting this reality

 

[johnee]

My modest proposal:

Let's allow Iran, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Myanmar to have nuclear weapons (on top of Pakistan and NOKOR). If Palestine gain independence they can have nuclear weapons too (or even without waiting for independence, they are free people they can decide for themselves, after all to acquire nukes is their natural right as a nation). They should not be held back by "old world" order...

Most of the sunni middle-east countries(ruled by the royal dynasties) are already firmly under the umbrella of US. So, they dont need nukes. They would need nukes, if and when they want to go against US. Or they would need Nukes when US fails or stops in providing umbrella to them. Remember, Nukes are seen as a defence against invasions. (BTW, Iranian shia nukes are seen as threat to these sunni counries also).

BD and Sri Lanka dont need Nukes unless they plan to go against India. If a regime comes to power in either of the two countries that wants to go against India, then the first thing for that regime would want is to acquire Nukes. And first thing, India would want to do is stop that.

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>>Does this justifies Iran's nukes in your eyes? For if it does then every country is justified in acquiring nukes...

Saar,
it seems you think that there is absolute justice. I am afraid that is not the case. I tried to tell you this the last time this issue came up for discussion(remember, we discussed about US dropping atom bombs on Japan). The point is there is no absolute justice. It all comes down to perspective.
From my perspective, I do NOT support Iranian attempt of acquisition of nukes. Because I am INDIAN.
But, if I were an IRANIAN, I would have supported the attempt.
If I were an AMERICAN, I would NOT have supported the attempt.
I dont know what is the perspective of people in Maldives.

The first thing to understand about this issue is that it is not question of justice but about politics. In politics, people choose sides based on their calculation of what is beneficial for them.

If fear of proliferation was the concern of the US(and the rest of west), then they should worry about Pakistan, more than anyone or anything else. Pakistan is the biggest rogue nation. It is a failed nation. It has a past of proliferation(infact, it had been the hub of proliferation). But the US(and rest of western lackeys) wink and smile at Pakistan. They want others(like India) to give up their energy concerns just to help the US(and its western lackeys) acquire a hold on Iranian oil. This hypocrisy is packaged as 'proliferation concern'.

 

[asianobserve]

Most of the sunni middle-east countries(ruled by the royal dynasties) are already firmly under the umbrella of US. So, they dont need nukes. They would need nukes, if and when they want to go against US. Or they would need Nukes when US fails or stops in providing umbrella to them. Remember, Nukes are seen as a defence against invasions. (BTW, Iranian shia nukes are seen as threat to these sunni counries also).

BD and Sri Lanka dont need Nukes unless they plan to go against India. If a regime comes to power in either of the two countries that wants to go against India, then the first thing for that regime would want is to acquire Nukes. And first thing, India would want to do is stop that.

----
>>Does this justifies Iran's nukes in your eyes? For if it does then every country is justified in acquiring nukes...

Saar,
it seems you think that there is absolute justice. I am afraid that is not the case. I tried to tell you this the last time this issue came up for discussion(remember, we discussed about US dropping atom bombs on Japan). The point is there is no absolute justice. It all comes down to perspective.
From my perspective, I do NOT support Iranian attempt of acquisition of nukes. Because I am INDIAN.
But, if I were an IRANIAN, I would have supported the attempt.
If I were an AMERICAN, I would NOT have supported the attempt.
I dont know what is the perspective of people in Maldives.

The first thing to understand about this issue is that it is not question of justice but about politics. In politics, people choose sides based on their calculation of what is beneficial for them.

If fear of proliferation was the concern of the US(and the rest of west), then they should worry about Pakistan, more than anyone or anything else. Pakistan is the biggest rogue nation. It is a failed nation. It has a past of proliferation(infact, it had been the hub of proliferation). But the US(and rest of western lackeys) wink and smile at Pakistan. They want others(like India) to give up their energy concerns just to help the US(and its western lackeys) acquire a hold on Iranian oil. This hypocrisy is packaged as 'proliferation concern'.

So what now...?

 

[pankaj nema]

In the 90s The Americans were PANDERING to the Chinese desires of being the Numero Uno power of Asia

Also the STUPID Democrats UNDER Bill Clinton thought that by UPLIFTING China Economically
RUSSIA would SOMEHOW Dis integrate

Americans wanted even Russia to disintegrate in the 90s Hence they supported China

AND China wanted AN END to India's Nuclear program

Hence the US opposition to Indian N programme

 

[asianobserve]

iran was a secular leftist democracy in 1953 and kicked out western oil companies plundering its oil by nationalizing the oil companies (like we nationalized many enery companies in India).

So historical events justify Iranian nukes?

 

[pankaj nema]

Iranian regime is the most stupid regime on earth

If any country DOES not like the west it should become a HERMIT like North Korea and Myanmar

BUT if you chant Death to America then US Carrier Battle groups will pay you a VISIT

 

[pmaitra]

BTW, Maldives under the new leadership now can have their nukes as well (they can start with the need for energy). No doubt Pakistan would be more than willing to help them in this endeavor...

Cool, let us start with the tiniest countries then. Vatican City, Monaco, Nauru, Tuvalu, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Seychelles, Maldives, Malta, Grenada, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Barbados, Antigua and Barbuda, Andorra, Palau, etc..

Why? Because these tiny countries are the most vulnerable.

 

[The Messiah]

So historical events justify Iranian nukes?

will you start reading instead of imagining things ? where have i said iran should get nukes ? infact in every post of mine i have made it clear they should not get nukes.

 

[The Messiah]

In the 90s The Americans were PANDERING to the Chinese desires of being the Numero Uno power of Asia

Also the STUPID Democrats UNDER Bill Clinton thought that by UPLIFTING China Economically
RUSSIA would SOMEHOW Dis integrate

Americans wanted even Russia to disintegrate in the 90s Hence they supported China

AND China wanted AN END to India's Nuclear program

Hence the US opposition to Indian N programme

West stance against our nukes had nothing to with china.

They dont want countries to get powerful. Its as simple as that.

 

[asianobserve]

will you start reading instead of imagining things ? where have i said iran should get nukes ? infact in every post of mine i have made it clear they should not get nukes.

Okay you got me.

 

[pankaj nema]

West stance against our nukes had nothing to with china.

They dont want countries to get powerful. Its as simple as that.

You are only a recent follower of GLOBAL geo politics

Are you aware of the PRESSURES on Indian N programme in the Nineties

 

[johnee]

So what now...?

Nothing. India needs Iran for its energy needs. India needs Israel and West for other issues. India needs both and will do business with both. Their mutual animosity is not India's business. Simple.

But, if US(and its western lackeys) insist that India give up doing business with Iran. Then, India should insist that US(and its western lackeys) stop supporting and funding Pakistan(which BTW is also a rogue which has already acquired Nukes unlike Iran which still does not have Nukes). So, it has to be quid pro qua. India stops doing business with Iran, IFF US(and its western lackeys) stop funding Pakis. Otherwise, India must continue to look after its energy needs.

---
Ideally, I want only and only Bhaarat to have the Nukes(even if everyone else were doves and paragons of justice).

 

[pankaj nema]

In the early nineties India was economically very vulnerable and US wanted BOTH Kashmir for Pakistan
AND Indian Signature on NPT for pleasing China

India Russia were ALIGNED against US China Pakistan