IPI Pipeline Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by A.V., Feb 22, 2009.

  1. atleast_a_bronze

    atleast_a_bronze Regular Member

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    The sea route option as you said, has been ruled out by Iran (No 'deepwater' gas pipeline to link Iran, India). India has already been saying that the over $7 per mbtu price is expensive compared to domestic price of $4.2 per mbtu for our KG basin gas. So, the undersea route will cost even more.
    India's LNG contract with Qatar at a lesser price has ended. While we seek a new deal, we are now facing the reality of the expensive gas prices.
     
  2. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Just came across this today: says Pakistan "willing to secure Iran gas pipeline to India".

    Not, in my opinion, a very credible source.

    Pakistan to secure Iran’s gas pipeline to India

    January 25, 2010


    The Head of the National Iranian Gas Export Company says Pakistan has agreed to secure the transfer of Iran’s exporting gas to India via its soil.

    “According to a gas deal signed between the two countries, Islamabad will be responsible for the transfer operations of Iran’s exporting gas in Pakistan’s territory,” Reza Kasaeizadeh told semi-official Mehr News Agency on Sunday.

    He added that based on the deal Pakistan will secure Iran’s gas transfer to India.

    The initial agreement of the 2,700 kilometer-long pipeline, also known as the Peace Pipeline, was signed in Tehran in May 2009 between the Iranian and Pakistani presidents.

    Around 1,100 kilometers of the pipeline would be built in Iran, while the remaining 1,000 kilometers would be installed in Pakistan.

    Kasaeizadeh said that according to the normal procedures, Iran is supposed to deliver the gas to the Iran-Pakistan border, and then Pakistan would transfer the export to any potential customer.

    Earlier, in September 2009, Kasaeizadeh had said that India is also in need of Iran’s gas and that Tehran has no problem in signing gas deals with them.

    India wants the delivery point of its gas imports from Iran to be on the Pakistan-India border.

    The pipeline was originally proposed in 1995, but after almost 13 years of negotiations India decided to step back last year.

    Indian officials have cited security issues and the viability of the pipeline, which would pass through the territory of its Pakistani rival, where an internal war is raging between government forces and the pro-Taliban militants.


    http://www.tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=212941
     
  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This pipeline when originally proposed was going to cost 7 billion dollars after a decade or more it must be double that and with no guarantee and a deteriorating security picture, the current proposal seems practical with minimal overhead cost and security threats.
     
  4. kuku

    kuku Respected Member

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    Think of the insurance costs :D

    I dont think anyone will insure the pipeline.
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I don't think the IPI will see light. too much of US pressure that both Pakistan and India can bear. Just today US passes new sanctions against any company doing business with iran esp in the energy sector. This has already made Reliance think twice on its dealings with Iran.

    Any business can only be under shadow deals. Pipeline is surely not the way.

    people will say india has to follow independent foreign policy. But then we have to live in the times. We don't have to close all doors, but not disclose back doors. In spite of not having good relations with Pakistan indian goods repackaged in third countries do reach there. Dubai is the hub for all such trade. India will find way to deal with uncle sam and iran simultaneously.
     
  6. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    well IPI pipeline was always a pipe dream of mani shankar iyer.
     
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://news.oneindia.in/2010/02/06/chinalikely-to-replace-india-in-iran-pak-gas-pipelineproje.html

    China likely to replace India in Iran-Pak gas pipeline project

    Tehran
    , Feb.6 (ANI): Iran Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki has said that China
    is keen to join the Pakistan-Iran Gas Pipeline Project.

    Buzz up!
    Mottaki said the work on the gas pipeline project, which initially included India, and was known as the Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) pipeline, would start soon, and Beijing is likely to join the project.


    Talking to a Pakistani media delegation here, Mottaki blamed the US for sabotaging the pipeline and said that India's growing relations between America should not affect its relations with other countries of the region.

    He said Islamabad should not hesitate to start the project despite the US pressure.

    "We must not allow any third country to interfere in the bilateral relations of Iran and Pakistan," The News quoted Mottaki, as saying.

    India had not proceeded with the 2,775 km trilateral pipeline on issues pertaining to security and hefty transit fee asked by Pakistan.

    While some Indian officials also cited 'security' and 'non viability' of the proposed pipeline as the main reason for parting away from the project, it is believed that New Delhi pulled out from the project under Washington's pressure.

    The IPI project was conceived in 1995 and after almost 13 years India finally decided to quit the project in 2008. (ANI)
     
  8. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Interesting. Seems many a ya'll's hypotheses've come true:


    Ignore Pak, ask Iran for gas via sea: MEA

    [​IMG]


    Posted: Sunday , Mar 21, 2010 at 0252 hrs

    New Delhi:


    In light of the dip in ties with Islamabad, the Ministry of External Affairs has advised the government to walk out of the proposed Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) gas pipeline but continue talks with Tehran for a deep-sea pipeline that avoids Pakistan.

    “In view of the complicated relationship between India and Pakistan, the Ministry of External Affairs does not advise meeting between India and Pakistan for further discussions on the project... the deep-sea pipeline option may not involve Pakistan and, therefore, the same can be pursued,” MEA officials said at a meeting last week to decide India’s position on the IPI pipeline.

    Endorsing MEA’s position, officials from the National Security Council Secretariat cautioned that the IPI pipeline would be a potential target of India-centric terror groups in Pakistan.

    Last Tuesday, Pakistan signed two pacts with Iran that deems India’s participation in the project at a later date. The pipeline through Pakistan is envisaged to carry 60 million standard cubic metres of gas per day of which half would be for India.

    The inter-ministerial group of bureaucrats, who met on March 9, decided that India continue its talks with Iran on upstream gas exploration/development and assured gas supply.

    While the meeting was told that “Iran is internationally isolated due to continuing sanctions, any wholehearted engagement in Iran may emerge as an area of friction between India and the West”, “there was unanimity that in view of the energy security of the country, India does need to continue to engage with Iran”.

    Besides providing “first-mover advantage” on exploration and LNG projects there, the panel agreed that India’s engagement with Iran, an important oil and gas player, would open the option of laying another onland pipeline up to Iran-Pakistan border from where a sub-sea pipe would be laid to India.

    Delhi will approach Tehran for meetings of the Indo-Iran Joint Working Group on Oil & Gas and the Joint Working Group on IPI Project in May, said a GAIL India official.

    The pipelines combination will be shorter than the proposed IPI pipeline, result in lower pipeline cost and transport tariff, he said.


    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ignore-pak-ask-iran-for-gas-via-sea-mea/593543/1
     
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think this US sabotage of IPI pipeline is a blessing in disguise. Iran has it's missed chances when in 2005 they refused to sign the agreement based on greediness. With Pakistan sitting on the line they will always blackmail us with sabotage and all. Better have a line through sea.
     
  10. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Gas supplies whether through tankers or pipelines will only work if they guarantee supplies and give sweet heart deals. Else we have Qatar.
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    lol, this new development will kill the recently heard of deal between pakistan and iran. iran always had an eye on india for its gas not pakistan. As it is they don't see eye to eye with pakistan. And with the games in Astan yet to finish, iran will not go ahead with its line to pakistan.
     
  12. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    If the Pak line can still go to China.

    Iran see's the worlds two largest consumer populations.

    They want pipe lines to both
     
  13. san

    san Regular Member

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    It is better to have a under sea pipeline, rather than depending upon Pak. If we donot want to invest so much money, lets transport through tanker.
    I wonder why govt thinks that, we can depend on Pak for our future energy supply.
     
  14. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    The line to China is a trial balloon. The costs and the difficult terrain are not going to allow it. Anyway it will be too vulnerable to security threats and even to artillery firing.
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Why will china look at anything which is a security risk? China wouldn't want to bet on anything that is dependent on indo-pak relations. For it the CAR is a better option.
     
  16. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    IPI is more of a pipedream for india.
     
  17. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    IPI: the Baloch perspective

     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Pakistan to India: Will ensure safety of IPI pipeline

    Seeking to coerce India to join long- talked gas pipeline, Pakistan said on Thursday it will guarantee safety of the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline and may give New Delhi [ Images ] an equity stake in the section passing through its territory as additional surety of safe delivery of the fuel.

    With New Delhi boycotting formal talks for almost three years, Iran and Pakistan this month signed last of a series of agreements for implementing the project on bilateral basis.

    Islamabad [ Images ] insists the agreements have 'in-built' mechanism to accommodate India should it decide to join the project.

    "We (the State of Pakistan) will stand guarantee for safe delivery of gas (at Pakistan-India border)," Mohammed Chaudhry Ejaz, additional secretary in Pakistan's ministry of petroleum and natural Resources, told PTI in an interview.

    Of the 1,035-km length of the pipeline in Pakistan, only 100-odd km would be exclusively for carrying gas to India while the rest would be transporting fuel for both Pakistan and India.

    "We have up to nine hours of power outages and we need Iranian gas to bridge this rising deficit. It is in our interest that the pipeline is safe and we get the gas to generate power and fuel industries," he said.

    India was widely believed to have decided not to pursue the project after the 26/11 terror attacks in Mumbai with apprehensions being expressed about terrorists holding the pipeline hostage to their demands and even cutting supplies by blowing the pipeline to hurt the interest of world's second fastest growing economy.

    New Delhi, however, has not officially called it quits yet and is proposing talks with Iran to sort out impediments.

    It wants to take custody of gas, that triggers payments for the fuel, only at Pakistan-India border to make Iran explicitly responsible for safe passage of gas through Pakistan.

    Also, it wants gas utility GAIL (India) to take a stake in the 1,035-km pipeline section in Pakistan to make the project bankable, reduce the financing cost, ensure timely execution and ensure transparent and efficient management of the operations.

    "Yes, we will more than welcome India to join the project length in Pakistan," Ejaz said when asked if Islamabad was open to India taking stake.

    He said Pakistan in July 2009 signed a Gas Sale and Purchase Agreement and this month signed among other pacts a Gas Transportation Agreement, which has been notorised in Paris, provides for internationally acceptable transit arrangement for gas to be supplied to India.

    "The agreements can be legally enforceable in any international court of law. The transit agreement makes us liable for safe supply of gas. We stand 100 per cent committed to safely supplying gas to India," Ejaz said.

    Iran, in the GSPA, has committed to selling gas either from one of the phases of the giant South Pars offshore field or divert fuel it may import from one of its gas-rich neighbouring country.

    Ejaz said like India, Pakistan has a growing energy deficit.

    Pakistan faces a gas shortfall of 10.34 billion cubic feet per day (bcfd) by 2015. The indigenous gas supply is projected to fall to 2.16 billion cubic feet per day from current day supply of 4.3 bcfd. The demand for gas would stand at 12.5 bcfd by 2015.

    Iran plans to export 2.2 bcfd of gas through the proposed pipeline, of which Pakistan's share would be 1.05 bcfd.

    If India does not participate, Pakistan had planned to consume the entire volumes. The official said Iran has laid a large 56-inch line from Persian Gulf coast to Iran-Pakistan border with a view to accommodate supplies to both Pakistan and India.

    "Considering Iran's internal consumption, they did not need such a big pipeline." Ejaz said according to pricing agreement between Iran and Pakistan, the gas will cost $7 per million British thermal unit if the crude oil price was $50 per barrel, $9.4 and $13 per mmBtu at oil rate of $70 and $100 per barrel respectively.

    The estimated cost of the project was USD 1.2 billion inside Pakistan from its point of entry in Balochistan up to Nawabshah, the hub of the country's gas pipeline system. New Delhi has so far downplayed the agreements, officially only saying that it had price and security concerns which need to be addressed before it can join the project.

    But, it may be preparing ground to formally quit the project. India's ties with Pakistan have dipped after Islamabad failed to act against culprits of 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks [ Images ].

    It sees a serious terrorist threat to the pipeline particularly in Baluchistan province, home to a militant Islamist separatist movement.

    Instead, New Delhi wants to buy gas in its liquid form that can be shipped or through a deep-sea pipeline avoiding the Pakistani territory totally.

    Under the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline proposal, a 1,100-km pipeline from the South Pars gas fields in the Persian Gulf was to be laid by Iranian firms to Iran-Pakistan border.

    A 1,035-km pipeline was proposed in Pakistan to connect to the gas grid in Pakistan as also carry India's share to Pakistan-India border.

    The pipeline has been on the drawing board since the mid-1990s, when Iran and India inked preliminary agreements to transport gas through Pakistan.

    It was dubbed the 'peace pipeline' because of hopes it would lead to a detente between neighbours India and Pakistan.

    India had major disagreements with Iran on pricing and project structure of the IPI pipeline when it broke out of talks in 2007.

    Tehran has been insisting that ownership of gas would be transferred at Iran-Pakistan border while New Delhi wants it to be Pakistan-India border thereby making Iran explicitly responsible for safe delivery of gas. New Delhi is also upset with Iran's frequent changes in gas price.

    Iran had originally priced its gas at $3.2 per mBtu but later in 2007 revised the rates to $4.93 per mBtu at $60 a barrel crude oil prices, which was accepted by India.

    Last year, it again revised it and according to the new pricing formula, the fuel will cost New Delhi $8.3 at $60 per barrel oil price at Iran-Pakistan border.

    Added to this would be a minimum of $1.1-1.2 per mmBtu towards transportation cost and transit fee that India would have to pay for wheeling the gas through Pakistan, making it the most expensive fuel in the country, they said.

    Sources said Iran was not willing to commit to a supply-or-pay regime wherein it would have been held accountable for non-delivery of gas at Indian border.

    It, however, wants New Delhi to commit to a strict take-or-pay clause wherein India would have to pay even if it does not take deliveries.

    All it now says is that if Pakistan were to disrupt supplies to India, Iran will make a proportionate cut in the quantities to be delivered to Islamabad.
     
  19. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    ^^^^

    Tell them to guarantee safety for their own people first.

    Then help India keep its own citizens safe from , terrorists.

    then we can see about keeping the pipe line safe.

    Honestly The IPI pipeline was a fools dream.
     
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    US objects to gas pipeline deal with Iran

    WASHINGTON: The United States urged Pakistan on Thursday to reconsider its deal with Iran for building a multi-billion-dollar pipeline intended to bring the much-needed natural gas to the energy starved country.
    “We do not think it is the right time for doing this kind of transaction with Iran,” US Assistant Secretary of State Robert Blake told a briefing in Washington.

    Mr Blake, who looks after South and Central Asian affairs at the State Department, returned this week from a trip to India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Belgium where he discussed the current situation in South Asia with his European colleagues as well. The US official told reporters at a briefing in Washington that the issue of the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline was raised in his meetings in Pakistan, particularly in public discussions.

    “We have advised Pakistan to seek other alternatives,” he added, explaining that because of Iran’s dispute with the international community over its nuclear programme, the US opposed large investments in any Iranian project.

    Pakistan and Iran signed an operational agreement for the proposed pipeline on March 16, a month after the signing was delayed because Islamabad was unable to arrange funds for the project.

    The pipeline was initially mooted to carry gas from Iran to Pakistan and on to India. India withdrew from negotiations last year after signing a nuclear deal with the United States, but has kept open the option of rejoining the project at a later stage.

    On Thursday, Pakistan said it would provide India with security guarantees for the pipeline from the South Pars gas complex in Iran as an incentive to join the project.

    Referring to these problems, Mr Blake said the project still faced “many challenges.”

    When a reporter asked if the US would also advise India not to join the pipeline project, Mr Blake said: “This is a very sensitive time in relations with Iran and we prefer that all countries avoid such transactions with Iran.”

    Water Crisis

    At the briefing, Pakistani journalists were particularly concerned about a potentially explosive dispute between India and Pakistan over water and they put several questions to the US official on this issue.

    Mr Blake said the US would not get involved “in bilateral issues” between India and Pakistan. “We think the World Bank is the right place” for resolving such disputes.

    The United States, however, will help both countries in developing their water resources.

    On Thursday, an influential US newspaper — Wall Street Journal — reported that the water feud between India and Pakistan was threatening to derail peace talks between the two neighbours.

    The countries have harmoniously shared the waters of the Indus River for decades. A 50-year-old treaty regulating access to water from the river and its tributaries has been viewed as a bright spot for India and Pakistan.

    Now, Pakistan complains that India is hogging water upstream, which is hurting Pakistani farmers downstream. Pakistani officials say they will soon begin formal arbitration over a proposed Indian dam.

    At a meeting that started on Sunday, Pakistan raised objections to new Indian dam projects on the Indus River and asked for satellite monitoring of river flows.

    India denies it is violating the treaty. New Delhi blames Pakistan’s water shortage on changing weather patterns and the country’s poor water management.

    The latest dispute revolves around India’s plans to build a 330-megawatt hydroelectric power project on the Kishenganga River, a tributary of the Indus. India says it is well within its rights to build the dam.

    Pakistan says New Delhi’s plans to divert the course of the river will reduce its flow by a third in the winter. That would make it unfeasible for Pakistan to move ahead with its own plans for a hydroelectric dam downstream.

    Pakistan wants to put the Kishenganga project before an arbitration panel—the first time that mechanism of the treaty will have been used.

    Mr Blake also referred to this panel, set up under the Indus Water Treaty, and hoped that they would be able to resolve this dispute through arbitration as they did in the past.

    He told the briefing that the water dispute came up at every meeting he had in Pakistan.

    Mr Blake said that both India and Pakistan were facing acute water shortages because of their rapidly increasing populations and expanding economies.

    “So the water issue is a real challenge for both.”

    Pakistan, he said, needed to change it irrigation practices and offered US assistance to help overcome the problem.

    Anti-India Militant Groups:

    Mr Blake called on Pakistan to curb anti-India militants, praising Islamabad’s recent efforts against extremism but saying it could do more to improve ties with New Delhi, adds AFP

    Blake hailed the “enormous” progress in Pakistan in fighting Muslim extremists, pointing to its offensives against Taliban in its restive northwest and recent arrests of militant leaders.

    “I think one can argue there is a lot of important progress that has been made but we think there also needs to be progress against these Punjab-based groups,” Blake told reporters.

    He was referring to groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Moham-med.

    Blake said that Punjab-based militants “are targeting Pakistan as well,” pointing to attacks in Lahore including a deadly 2009 ambush on Sri Lanka’s visiting cricket team.

    Blake said he also relayed to Pakistan the concerns of New Delhi that militants were infiltrating India to carry out attacks.

    “I reminded them that from 2004 to 2007 both of those countries made quite important progress in their bilateral relations, and that progress was made possible in part by the significant efforts the government of Pakistan made at the time to stop cross-border infiltration,” he said.
     

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