Interesting debate: Sino-Indo conflict, who is to blame?

Rage

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I have something also to do now. If you want to know "agreed political parameters and guiding principles", I will post it next time. It's nothing related to what you posted here. What you said is a good wish for your country.
Jeez.

You, who's tellin' me that the Dalai Lama's fleeing to India was the cause of the 1962 war, that no country recognized Tibet as sovereign prior to the PRC and that India "recognized" Tibet as Chinese via a news source quoting somebody in the House, who you don't know what the fvck is saying, are going to tell me what the "agreed political parameters and guiding principles" are?

Gimme a break...
 

hit&run

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Chinese are overfeed with forward policy bullshit (which was just a policy) and vomiting it all over. They will either come with an excuses of an asylum seeker Dalia Lama or will cry about that they were suffering from famine at that time to prove why India opted to start military aggression on its borders.

India could have made Tibet a hell, like Pakistan did to Kashmir by training Tibetans against China but we never did.

I am sick of these predictable PRC trolls commenting on Indian forward policy when they themselves were doing military invasion of Tibet and encroaching Indian lands way before this so called policy. They were building Sinkiang highways and invading Indian land, what else they were expecting India to do. PLA's presence way before 1962 and building of logistics is a proof that they were aware of Indian reaction like any other nation would have done at that time. Unfortunately India was ill prepared against Imperial standard violent Chinese army.

China invaded Tibet illegally and then tried to encroach Indian borders post Tibet invasion. Indians debated this issue with Jawaharlal Nehru in the Parliament and asked him for an action in 1958.
Opposition asked Nehru "There are two things precious to man,land and women.you have already presented 1200 sq miles of our land to the Chinese. do you want to present our women to them also? Nehru went red in the face but did not say a word. " as for how the policy commenced," He first saw on a military map all the recent incursions china had made against us.he said that whoever succeeded in setting up the post(even a symbolic one ),would establish a claim to that territory, as possession was nine tenths of law.if the Chinese could set up posts, why not we? "

"there is no reason why we should not play a game of chess and wits with them ,so far as the question of establishing post is concerned.if they advanced in one place, we should advance in other.In other words,keep up with them as fr as possible,in what we are convinced is our territory. This defensive step on our part may irritate the Chinese but no more".
It was idiocy of by Part of Jawaharlal Nehru who ordered India military to consolidate and petrol borders. He misread violent Chinese those who were skilled and numb enough now by killing thousands of Tibetans, violating human rights and fighting Korean war. He ordered ill prepared InA to play the game of cheese than a war against already acclimatized PLA.

Who was to blame? A nation who was sending a wrong message (let me be less blunt) by Invading Tibet, Encroaching India land, Preparing highways, Smuggling weapons and equipments via Indian ports into Twang and Tibet, readying army way before Indian response and frustrated by exposure of theirs sins of Tibet to international community (thanks to India who didn't handed over Tibetan refugees to Chinese vampires like Maoist Nepal is doing these days). China bullied India comprehensively at all international stages till today. China is a friend of rough states. Its proves nothing but its continuity of her previous mentality about newly freed and timid India of Nehru era. However post 1962 InA thanked China many times for giving us a wake up call. Now we were able to convey a message many time after that (Sikkim skirmishes) we know now very well that you understand the language of power. It just a period of some times when PLA statistics will start showing that India is now invincible for PLA to conquer therefore border disputes are to be resolved in India's favour like they did with Russia.
 
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hit&run

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Who to blame lol...read pasted snips from the book to have an historic accounts about Chinese back stabbing.

Its pathatic to know that Chinese can even dare to ask this question who to blame. They are so shameless that still after 50 years they are doing this propaganda by asking such deceptive questions agian and again when so much historic accounts are available with very balanced views and facts.

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Start from page 286.








 

neo29

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Clearly Nehru is the one to be blamed for the debacle and the current mess. It was he who implemented the forward policy by starting border posts across Mcmahon line. Such a move will be seen by any nation as an aggression. Its likely that Nehru thought that India needs more land in its north sector since delhi was close to 2 different borders.

But Nehru claimed that the proposal to withdraw 20 km from Mcmahon line was not good since he did not know where the line exactly was. All he did was try to control as much land as possible in order to be in a better position when negotiation the final border terms with China. Thats when the mess started.
 

jazzguy

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Who was to blame? A nation who was sending a wrong message (let me be less blunt) by Invading Tibet, Encroaching India land, Preparing highways, Smuggling weapons and equipments via Indian ports into Twang and Tibet, readying army way before Indian response and frustrated by exposure of theirs sins of Tibet to international community (thanks to India who didn't handed over Tibetan refugees to Chinese vampires like Maoist Nepal is doing these days). China bullied India comprehensively at all international stages till today. China is a friend of rough states. Its proves nothing but its continuity of her previous mentality about newly freed and timid India of Nehru era. However post 1962 InA thanked China many times for giving us a wake up call. Now we were able to convey a message many time after that (Sikkim skirmishes) we know now very well that you understand the language of power. It just a period of some times when PLA statistics will start showing that India is now invincible for PLA to conquer therefore border disputes are to be resolved in India's favour like they did with Russia.
We all know that India is a superpower with powerful army. So what. Before you debating Chinese sovereign over Tibet, I advise you to read the history of China and Tibet. Take a look at the relationship between Tibet and China in the history of Tan Dynasty(618-907), Yuan Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, Republic of China (Taiwan). Also, take a look at the map and history of British India before 1904.
 

hit&run

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We all know that India is a superpower with powerful army. So what. Before you debating Chinese sovereign over Tibet, I advise you to read the history of China and Tibet. Take a look at the relationship between Tibet and China in the history of Tan Dynasty(618-907), Yuan Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, Republic of China (Taiwan). Also, take a look at the map and history of British India before 1904.
I have read the whole history of china and Tibet. Please enlighten me which credible proof you have to prove China's sovereignty over Tibet. If spineless Govt. of India has recognised Tibet as part of China doesn't mean China had ethereal right over Tibet. Prove me by language, culture, foreign affairs of Tibet and any historic treaties between Tibet and PRC which suggest Tibet was part of china. Prove it.
 

neo29

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I remember that some years back China had offered India a permanent solution to its border dispute. China offered to recognize Arunchal Pradesh as Indian State and India must accept Aksai China has Chinese territory. Kinda barter system. India had refused it.
 

hit&run

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Why we should bend upon Chinese demands. There is no reason whatsoever why China has been hostile to India. What India is claiming is its legitimate right. Its a dispute as long as China will illegally remained occupant of our land. There were many blunders done by Jawaharlal Nehru as far dealing with China is concerned. His timings were absolutely stupid when awarding many goodies to China in hope that they will do the same by resolving border issues. Which they never mentioned they have with us at the start covertly.

China has set many bad example which no other nation as done so far by occupying the Tibet and by doing nuclear proliferation to Pakistan. China is simply very lucky to escape from the wrath of international community due to US-Russia cold war, India's shortsightedness and hopelessly weak Tibetans. China took British and Japanese imperial baton after world war II. They are in layman's word bully nation and now India after doing many blunders is not ready to negotiate any thing (Aksai Chin) them.

Fair Enough Its not a rocket science to understand. Their friendship with Pakistan is for strategic reasons but they will bully others those who will try to invest in Vietnam for oil and gas. They tried to teach India a lesson in 1962 for fun and to declare that they are the boss of Asia. Such gestures are only made by a nation who do not believe in living in coexistence.
 
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CS1.6

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it's meaningless to "blame" any one for the conflict in 1962 now, it's more meaningful to talk about how to solve the disputed border line between the two biggest developing countries in the world.

as a common Chinese i do hope the two govt. can work this out peacefully and friendly, but i know this would be very difficult.

Unlike in the 1960s, now Indian military power is no worse than PLA; especially for the air force and navy, IAF &IN is even better equiped/trained than their Chinese counterparts.

BUT i hope this will not give the Indian politicians an illusion that they can now go to war with China to solve the boarder dispute, neither India or China can bear a war with each other, especially for India, because i belive India now is like China in the 1980s, their economy is growing very healthily and fast, India is on the verge of long term fast development like what China went through in the past 2-3 decades, and this would require a peaceful environment for India.
 
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vikramrana_1812

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China deploys new CCS-5 missiles on border with India

WASHINGTON: China has moved new advanced longer range CSS-5 missiles close to the borders with India and developed contingency plans to shift airborne forces at short notice to the region, according to Pentagon.

Despite increased political and economic relationship between India and China, the Pentagon in a report to the US Congress said, tensions remain along the Sino-India borders with rising instances of border violation and aggressive border patrolling by Chinese soldiers.

However, a senior Defense Departmentofficial told reporters that the US has not observed any anomalous increase in military capabilities along the Sino-India border.

Noting that China continues to maintain its position on what its territorial claim is, the official said, the two capitals - Beijing and New Delhi - have been able to manage this dispute, in a way, using confidence-building measures and diplomatic mechanisms to be able to maintain relative stability in that border area.

"But it's something that China continues to watch; but I wouldn't say that there's anything in this report that demonstrates a spike or an anomalous increase in military capabilities along the border.

"It's something that China's paying very careful attention to. It's obviously something that India is paying careful attention to as well," the Senior Defense Department official said.

In its annual report, the US Defence department said, to improve regional deterrence, the PLA has replaced older liquid-fueled, nuclear capable CCS-3 intermediate range missiles with more advanced and survivable fueled CSS-5 MRBMs.

"China is currently engaged in massive road and rail infrastructure development along the Sino-India border primarily to facilitate economic development in western China: improved roads also support PLA operations," the Pentagon said.

The report presented to the Congress said despite increased political and economic relations over the years between China and India, tensions remain along their shared 4,057 km border, most notably over Arunachal Pradesh, which China asserts as part of Tibet and therefore of China, and over the Aksai Chin region at the western end of the Tibetan Plateau.

"Both countries, in 2009, stepped up efforts to assert their claims. China tried to block a USD 2.9 billion loan to India from the Asian Development Bank, claiming part of the loan would have been used for water projects in Arunachal Pradesh. This represented the first time China sought to influence this dispute through a multilateral institution," the Pentagon said.


Read more: China deploys new CCS-5 missiles on border with India - India - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...h-India/articleshow/6324105.cms#ixzz0wr4kVkay
 

jazzguy

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I remember that some years back China had offered India a permanent solution to its border dispute. China offered to recognize Arunchal Pradesh as Indian State and India must accept Aksai China has Chinese territory. Kinda barter system. India had refused it.
What I heard from Chinese side is contrary to what you said here. China provided a package offer to India 20 years ago, which India refused at that time. The package was that China gave half of Aksai Chin to India and India return all occupied Chinese land on the south of McMahon line since 1904.
 

mayfair

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What I heard from Chinese side is contrary to what you said here. China provided a package offer to India 20 years ago, which India refused at that time. The package was that China gave half of Aksai Chin to India and India return all occupied Chinese land on the south of McMahon line since 1904.
There lies the rub innit? Kindly shove your "package" up where the sun don't shine...
 

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