The debate is not about patriotism perse.
Well if you honestly believed that, then we can close this thread. Because that is what this entire thread has been about
MJ Akbar was given as an example of a quintessential, liberal minded Muslim. And he may be when he is outside with others...but in a cozy environment he is just another closet supremacist who thinks "Muslims ruled over India".
Ah yes, the muslim conspiracy to rule over India again. Infact, if you are honest with yourself and apply the same standards that you apply to MJ Akbar, you would be more of a Hindu supremacist
BTW Ejaz why should Muslims have reservation in the first place. Isn't Islam supposed to be an egalitarian religion wherein no castes exist ? Taking advantage of caste based reservation goes against the tenets of Islam.
Now distract the debate from wether asking for reservation is unpatriotic to wether it is Islamic.
The point is not about merits of the reservation system. Does Sikhism and Buddhism support the caste system? Taking advantage of the caste system is against Sikhism or Buddhism? Infact, does giving SC/ST reservation mean that Hinduism supports the concept of untouchability?
What I am exposing here is that mere asking about reservation does not turn a person unpatriotic. Otherwise what about the Jats who are bringing railways to halt or the OBCs that rioted all over India agitating for reservations. THAT is the point.
The merits of reservation is a completely seperate topic
Casteism is a bane of Hinduism, remember ? So only. The religions of peace which have no castes like Islam and Christianity can stay away from reservations.
See above
What bout them ? Most of them were arrested with a huge fanfare before elections and their trial has been in limbo ever since with the NIA/ATS not being able to provide any tangible proof of their crimes.. The BJP protested against that. Tell me once the BJP protests after they have been convicted for any crimes. It's the same as Diggi or Owaisi or any media channel visiting the family of the muslim "boys" who were arrested for terror acts and expressing solidarity with them.
So you are saying that the BJP has the right to protest against "innocent" who have been arrested but others don't? And you don't see the hypocrisy in that statement? There have been numerous cases of innocent Muslims being arrested on trumped up charges and then being released because they have been acquitted in the courts of law.
Just as an example:
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ror-cases-without-proof-paper.html#post463411
I suggest you watch the youtube link in that post as well and note that even after that Hyderabadi boy was put in jail on trumped up charges and had his entire career destroyed, he is still saying that he is a proud Indian and that he is loyal to his country.
No Indian Muslim is opposed to punishing those involved in terrorism. Infact, the major tips regarding terrorist attacks do come from Muslims themselves. In cases where there is clear cut evidence like Ajmal Kasab, the entire Indian Muslim community has openly come out and said hang him.
What bout them ? No one said nuking Pakistan is a barometer of any one's patriotism.
Good so hopefully you won't question an Indian Muslims' patriotism is he talks about trade or ties with Pakistan
Yet he remains a closet supremacist who harbors delusions of "He ruling over Hindus",
See this is an example of how people turn everything into a Hindu-Muslim issue. Reminds of how some Pakistanis in another forum react on issues to be honest.
Did MJ Akbar even mention the word Hindu in that article? But unfortunately you seem to start seeing Hindu Muslim even when that is not there. A peptalk where MJ Akbar is trying to build condidence asking students to join the national mainstream, contribute to the development of India and not indulge in panic or appeasement stories for Muslims is turned over its head.
This is what I mentioned where seamingly minor things are being taken as some sort of "betrayal". Unfortunately, I don't think there would anyone who can meet your "lofty standards" of patriotism.
100% agree.
But it took only one Jinnah or Iqbal to mobilize opinion to divide this country.
The unfortunate legacy of Partition which we all have to live with.
See this is what happens when people don't know history or believe the Pakistani version of it without question. Iqbal never advocated a partition of the country first of all and Jinnah would never have had his Pakistan wihout British support. I have explained in other places repeatedly how Muslim Legue did not even have popular support in provinces of present day Pakistan including Punjab. It was only with a lot of blatant collusion with the British as well as fear mongering in the name of "Islam in danger" that they were even able to get their position. And remember, elections then were NOT universal franchise but only those who owned land which was less than 10% of the populace. Not to mention that even people like Sarvarkar had championed Hindu Muslim unity just like Jinnah turned around as well after his incarceration by the British.
Point to note is that both Jinnah and Sarvarkar where not devout Muslims or Hindus. Sarvarkar called himself an atheist advocated that Hindus should eat Beef and refused his wife from being cremated according to Hindu traditions. Similarly Jinnah drank wine and ate pork sandwiches. It was about politics for both of them rather than religion. Hence the reason why devout religious Muslims like Maulana Azad or Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan or devout Hindus like Mahatma Gandhi opposed the paritition.
Indian Muslims are ofcourse living with the legacy of the parition because THEY are the ones who are most affected by it and suffer the most, even though they had no say in it. People like you do not. Didn't you yourself say that you are happy that Jinnah created Pakistan so that you don't have to worry about all these "Muslims"?
Isn't it irony of the highest order that the legacy of the parition that as a whole is favourable for Hindus like you is now taken as a cudgel to beat Indian Muslims - who suffered the most because of it? Think about it dispassionately. Muslims want to be part of the idea of inclusive Nationalism propagated by people like Khan Abdul Gaffar, Mahatma Gandhi, Sardar Patel, Ambedkar, Maulana Azad. Nehru e.t.c. Infact, you might even add Sarvarkar and Jinnah pre 1930s into that list. But don't you see it as unfortunate that even after 60 years, you are using the partition, something that benefited you, to blame Indian Muslims today who had no part in those decisions and have suffered the most because of it.
Indian Muslims have learnt their lesson and the futility of the "Islam in danger" slogan. The question is will some Hindus fall for the "Hindus in danger" slogan now?
At present, Muslims have one of the lowest literacy levels, govt employment levels and also political representations in accordance with their population. But despite all this, if you have this insecurity that Muslims will take over Indian govt. and start killing the rest of the 85% of the Indian population, then I must congragulate the person who made you believe that.
Anyways, this is my last post on this thread. I think I have done enough of nitpicking on a a topic that frankly seems to go round in circles. Visit a local mosque in your locality or madrassa or attend an open day at one and you may find that Muslims are not as scary as you are making them out to be. Dont' believe fake online petitions started by dubious organisations which have a history of muslim bashing. That's like expecting authentic information about Jews from a neo-nazi fan club site.
Best of Luck!
Baniya is also UC in T.N. ?
