Generally perceived as troublemakers, hackers occupy a secret and shadowy world of their own. What hackers do and exactly how they do remains a mystery to the public at large. But hackers are everywhere, as a recent series of cyberattacks show. In the past weeks, hackers have brought down websites of the CIA, the US Senate, and the National Informatics Centre and the Indian Army in India. You might be forgiven for thinking you're caught in a cyberwar. But hackers, within themselves, do make a distinction between "good" hackers or white hats, and "bad" hackers or black hats. So who exactly are these backroom boys? This is an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) with a purported 'White Hat' hacker who claims to have been a member of the team that attacked the NIC and Indian Army websites last week. NDTV does not know if the person on the other side of the chat is indeed who he claims to be nor if any of his other claims are correct. But the conversation gave an interesting insight into the mind of a hacker and we thought we would share it with our surfers. NDTV does not subscribe to the views expressed here. NDTV: What is Anonymous and what is your relation to the international group Anonymous? anon_in: Anonymous is a Legion, We fight against corruption - unethical behaviour - un-human elements. It is worldwide. It has same relation as blood to body. No matter what country, no matter what region, we are one for each other. NDTV: How long have you been involved with the organisation? How long has this group existed? anon_in: This group has been into existence since a long time. Operation India started recently, followed by the brutal attack on innocent lives. We heard the cries and need to 'change'. I wonder how citizens of India have not yelled 'enough is enough' yet. NDTV: Which attack are you talking about? anon_in: Baba Ramdev (Indian saint) and his followers were attacked at mid-night of June 5 and 6, we launched Operation India. NDTV: How many members do you have and are you all based in India? anon_in: So far recruitment has been going slow because, CBI is on hunt for anons and forensic has been given to a private company who is doing good in their work; only people who can demonstrate very high level of anonymity are allowed, we cannot risk innocent 'wanna-helpers' getting arrested for something they haven't done. We are based worldwide. NDTV: Can you give me a number of people from India who are associated with Anonymous, I am not asking for names and identities... just a number anon_in: 2. But, they are not allowed to hack. I cannot afford anyone getting arrested. NDTV: So what do they do? anon_in: They are training under me for 'total-anonymity'. Once I feel they are fit, they can use their skills We want numbers above 50. We are calling every hacker across globe. NDTV: Why are people outside India interested in fighting against corruption in India? Don't they have their own battles to fight? anon_in: Consider, If you are in America and one American is getting beat up by thugs and suppose you have amazing Kung Fu power, would you stop from helping that person? If you have conscience, you will do anything to help. NDTV: Do members of Anonymous know each other? Is there any personal, non-virtual interaction? anon_in: No - everyone is unknown of each other's personal details. NDTV: How do you recruit other hackers? anon_in: By their attitude and demonstrations. NDTV: What do you ask them to demonstrate? Their hacking skills? How? anon_in: I mean demonstration of attitude. Skills can be taught not attitude. No, not hacking skills. One of the members was recruited just by the way he cried to assist us in helping our cause and down to earth attitude while learning. He knew more than most of us here NDTV: How does the hierarchy work in Anonymous? anon_in: Consider, you feel broken someday and you join Anonymous (not necessarily as hacker).. After sometime, after attitude-assessment, you get channel operator status - operator status = senior / supervisor. But, as per ideology. Anonymous is Anonymous. We are not allowed to kick/ban anyone from channel unless we have 'very' strong reason to do so. NDTV: Who gives this status? Who does the assessment, and how? anon_in: Attitude - The one who can control his powers and use it for betterment of others - when this is proved, he/she is 'trusted' anon_in: Do you see Tony The Tiger [a user listed in the IRC channel where NDTV was chatting with anon_in] - it gives us the status NDTV: But what/ who is Tony The Tiger? anon_in: Tony the tiger is a bot [an automated programme designed to do specific tasks in a chat room] On white hats and black hats: Hackers by and large are popularly equated with cyber terrorists but within the community, "good" hackers differentiate themselves from "bad" hackers as "white hats" and "black hats" NDTV: Do you think there are white hat and black hat hackers? If yes, what are you? anon_in: Hackers can be anyone and anyone can be Anonymous. I am white hat hacker. Doing a hack for good cause is white hat NDTV: Is hacking a recreation for you or a parallel life? Do you have other interests or day jobs? anon_in: Being Anonymous is my parallel life. When I am here, I am just anon_in and nothing else; soon even this identity will change. On the other side, I party, I am married, have relatives, attend various celebrations. I live both my lives as they should be - but, this is just a personal answer not as an Anonymous. NDTV: Don't hackers hack - to some extent - just because they can? How much of hacktivism is about proving a point, showing off a little bit? anon_in: Showing off is not hacking. People who talk a lot and show off a lot, are not hackers, we call them lamers. Hacking can be of any level. Your mum making you say no for night outs without letting you know is hacking too Social engineering. NDTV: Does anyone among your family and friends know you are a hacker or is it an entirely secret life you lead? anon_in: My wife. She knows. My parents were in India before my birth. I work till 5:30 is my dialogue which I use for everyone in India. My wife understands how I feel for 'my' country. My parents would have been proud for 'fight against corruption' which I can carry out my way, had they been alive. But, this is just personal. On the attacks in India, cyberterrorism vs hacktivism, and what Anonymous hope to achieve NDTV: What was your role in carrying out the attacks on NIC and Indian Army Websites? anon_in: Stealth analysis. I was responsible for total analysis. So far, no Indian resident has even touched NIC servers. NDTV: Can you please elaborate a bit on it, for some of our readers who may not understand those terms. anon_in: How can NIC be hacked? What are the measures they have taken to fight intrusion? How can we bypass their AID, which was during 2nd attack on NIC. What is in their forensic logs, etc. Trust me, its a long list NDTV: And the same thing was done for the Indian Army website? anon_in: No. It was an intentional, We did not deface Indian Army website or even peeped inside, we just configured htaccess (file which is responsible for ...... websites to function as developer wants it to be) to give forever loop resulting in site to not open. It was purposely publicised. We wanted to see the rage Citizens of India have. We wanted to see what critics they can give us. What guts they do in their real life - which is why it was on Facebook, where they comment with their real identity. We just paused Indian Army Website - reactions were amazing. But, why there is no reaction for the politicians who have abused and misused Indian Army - in real. NDTV: But you could do a lot more damage to it? anon_in: We could but, we did not. We respect Army - Navy - Air Force of every country . Because, they are there for defence - very needed. NDTV: But neither NIC nor the Indian Army has commented on these attacks, what might be the reason? anon_in: This time they are not talking - they are doing NDTV: What do you think they are doing? anon_in: If you check our second attack - they initiated forensic, if they ignored it, why would they spend money and time over it? We know it all. We know what they are up to. They never know this but, we are among them and they can do nothing about it NDTV: If you are attacking the Indian Army website, how are you different from a cyber- terrorist? anon_in: If you are Indian you would know Bhagat Singh - Raj Guru - Azad. They were tagged 'terrorists' for rebelling against the government (British who ruled India). At times, revolutionaries are tagged terrorists. And, we would be terrorists if we did all the damage possible to Indian Army website, which we could have done but, we did not since it was never intended. Which is why, we say, Expect revolution. Expect Us. NDTV: Why attack a defence related website at all? Are you making a statement about military corruption? anon_in: As mentioned earlier - To see rage of Citizens of India, we know how much Indian's respect it. We do too. If anger to us, why not to them who are abusing it. But, message never reached as it should've been. Military corruption is out of focus. NDTV: A Facebook page sets a deadline of Aug. 15 for a bigger attack, is this true? anon_in: I am not sure about it. Anonymous hackers , Anonymous facebook, Anonymous twitter, Anonymous network (as in this website and irc servers) is handled by different people. 'Bigger' attack can be started anytime. Yes, we do need to ask our supervisors before we proceed with any attack, but we can load our guns anytime ;-) NDTV: And who are these supervisors? anon_in: For now, its me for Operation India. The anon I used to consult has changed his/her identity, am yet to find him/her. NDTV: Does Anon have concrete goals and demands? How broad is its definition of "corruption"? anon_in: Yes, we have our demands - it was mentioned in press release which apparently youtube has deleted. Corruption and philandering politicians are necessary for a country to survive but, not at the cost of ruining humanity. One of Indian fans emailed me about how badly, his parents were treated at pension office at the age of 65 years. When a conscience is dead, emergence is needed. NDTV: But how does bringing a website down help? Why does Anon not put its cyber talents to a more positive use by fighting crime, terrorism, instead of their current methods which could be viewed as subversive, negative, and is largely without public support? anon_in: We are fighting crime and terrorism - We have public support. Perhaps, you cannot see it NDTV: Isn't the lack of popular support for hacktivism a big minus point in terms of credibility - doesn't it affect the legitimacy of Anon's very niche fight against corruption? anon_in: Our goal is not just India , we will soon have OpPakistan - Just for your knowledge. We are here for a reason and an intention, once we succeed in what we want, we will disappear, credibility - critics -appreciations - does not matter, personally, it is just the feeling 'I did something for betterment of humanity - I can face God when I see him' that drives us. NDTV: Exactly how do you think you will be able to stop corruption with these attacks? Will you continue the attacks until the issues you object to are resolved? anon_in: Hehe - Personally, we all know - defacing websites and DDOS (which we haven't done yet) will not shake the governments. But, it will give a feeling to citizens of that respective country that 'someone is with us'. We want rebel in every citizen. Our main objective is not to shake government but, to wake citizens! NDTV: Are you in touch with anybody in the government or related bodies? Are you trying to make contact? If not, how do you expect resolution without dialogue? anon_in: We have people who are 'in the system'. One among them but, they will never realize, they just help us to stay alert. Our resolution can be achieved when citizens wake up, we are not here to reason with government. Our first defacement was just for the 'shock and awe'. And, that was just the beginning, tip of an iceberg. NDTV: Do you think the government will yield to such measures? anon_in: We have no expectations from the government. But, we do from Citizens of India. We want them to come out of their houses and bring a revolution. Egypt - Libya - So many examples. On Lulz Sec, Wikileaks, and possible future attacks: Lulz Sec is an especially notorious hacking organisation that have hacked into the servers of Sony, CIA, the US Senate and a host of other organisations. In a recent fraud, they released 62000 email addresses and passwords of people collected from random sources. Those affected include members of the US Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard. Lulz Sec is generally considered black hat. NDTV: Are the attacks similar to the attacks on Sony Websites? Are Anonymous and "Lulz Security" connected? anon_in: Anonymous is for Lulz - we like to say it that way. Sony - no comments NDTV: Come on, you've got to say something about Sony anon_in: Anonymous is spread world-wide. I would say, hackers are free to use this as their group-name but, when they steal, hijack, etc. without human motive, they must not use it. But, that is just a personal opinion. anon_in: Further, Sony has blamed Anonymous but, hey why do not media ask Sony for concrete proofs? Forensic logs? Sony is incompetent and Anonymous is not here to steal. NDTV: And when you say Anonymous is for Lulz, do you say that you support what Lulz has done? anon_in: You make me think twice before I answer anyways, Lulz and Anonymous are different and they are like brothers. If world thinks, they are wrong, we say, they might be less right but, not wrong entirely. All respect! NDTV: Will you be carrying out attacks in India similar to those against the US Senate recently? anon_in: With same intention, yes! NDTV: The Spanish Police have caught three Anonymous suspects, does that affect you in any way? Do you think you can be caught? anon_in: If you read news you will read 'xyz caught who 'pride' themselves to be Anonymous'. I might get caught and might not. They can stop an individual not an ideology NDTV: What about the Turkish arrests? anon_in: 35 were caught in Turkey, not 32 We know what is happening and what could be the consequences. Operation Turkey did not stop Infact, all hackers from different operations are assisting in Operation Turkey. NDTV: What is Anon's take on Wikileaks and Assange? anon_in: Julian is a smashing personality! Wikileaks is a dare! Anonymous is just a supporter Defining 'support' is upto you. NDTV: So do you help Wikileaks in anything? anon_in: Me as in personally, I haven't done anything except Like his articles on Facebook NDTV: What about Anonymous? anon_in: They might have helped, wikileaks is a 'good cause'. NDTV: Which particular organisations are you targeting with these attacks? Is Congress one of them? anon_in: Congress it is. NDTV: Any other? anon_in: No. NDTV: Was the Rahul Gandhi website attacked by you? anon_in: No, it was a rumour. Read more at: Inside a Hacker's Mind Do we need to support them??? Could any of our mates be part of this army???