INS Arihant, India's N-powered submarine, to be operational soon

[Patriot]

Rumours indicate that ATV-2 has already completed fabrication and installation of equipment (less the reactor). Then there is also the problem that even the latest information/rumour is itself as much as 6-12 months old by some accounts. For all we know, the ATV-2 could be at the dock, conducting trials.

The only reason we even know of the ATV-2 being fabricated (in may,2011) was a mishap, else we'd still be in the dark. There is no info on the third as of now.

I have also read the same, this info on ATV-2 seems true. AFAIK all the ATVs are in serial production mode at respective stages from metal cutting to trial. The real challange & time consuming part are the reactors. If we can build reactors with equal speed it shall be icing on cake.

 

[arnabmit]

I don't understand nuclear propulsion at all... Could anyone tell me that if we already have a working nuclear reactor design, what stops us to put an enlarged design of the same into IAC?

 

[DivineHeretic]

I have also read the same, this info on ATV-2 seems true. AFAIK all the ATVs are in serial production mode at respective stages from metal cutting to trial. The real challange & time consuming part are the reactors. If we can build reactors with equal speed it shall be icing on cake.

Reactor building is not the real headache, small reactors were developed quite early infact. The problem lies with the power being generated by the reactor. The one powering the Arihant is said to be 80MWe, while the one powering the Akula is 190MWe, more than 2 times, with nearly identical weight. The Arihant does not have similar speed requirements as the Akula, but still it goes to show the difference in reactor maturity between the two countries.

The other problem is the cooling system for the reactor, and the reliability of the reactor. We know that except France and Britain, all SSN/SSBN operators have had catastrophic failures. This is making the IN extra jittery and they are going for much more stringent tests on the reactors, even more than the Russians. This is again slowing down the development.

 

[DivineHeretic]

I don't understand nuclear propulsion at all... Could anyone tell me that if we already have a working nuclear reactor design, what stops us to put an enlarged design of the same into IAC?

Its not as simple as that (I'm speaking only for the IN, other navies have already solved these problems)

. The Nuclear reactor onboard a sub is responsible for powering the sub forward, and generating enough power to keep the systems operational at all times. Onboard a Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier,in addition to the earlier points, it must also generate enough power (earlier steam) to power the EMALS launcher system and the massive radar systems onboard the ship.

Then there is also the fact that a nuclear powered Carrier is as much as 100,000 tons (65,000 for INS Vishal), as compared to 6000 tons for the Arihant, 8000 tons for the Akula or 24000 tons for the Borei. The borei and the Akula are powered by a 190 MWe reactor, while the Arihants reactor can barely manage 80MWe. The Carrier will require much more powerful reactor than we have the ability to build at the moment.

The Nimitz holds two 550MWt reactors, while the CVN-21 will hold two with three times the power of the Nimitz. Thats huge.

 

[kurup]

Reactor building is not the real headache, small reactors were developed quite early infact. The problem lies with the power being generated by the reactor. The one powering the Arihant is said to be 80MWe, while the one powering the Akula is 190MWe, more than 2 times, with nearly identical weight. The Arihant does not have similar speed requirements as the Akula, but still it goes to show the difference in reactor maturity between the two countries.

The other problem is the cooling system for the reactor, and the reliability of the reactor. We know that except France and Britain, all SSN/SSBN operators have had catastrophic failures. This is making the IN extra jittery and they are going for much more stringent tests on the reactors, even more than the Russians. This is again slowing down the development.

Arihant is powered by a 80MWt reactor not a 80MWe one, while the one powering the Akula is 190MWt.

 

[kurup]

I doubt it will happen. The S-3 is the last of the current series, and all were undertaken nearly simultaneously. The S-4 & S-5 will feature a larger design, a higher tonnage and a higher payload than the originals. As such they will have to be designed and fabricated differently. The earlier experience will help, but the build time will not be drastically reduced.

+ a more powerfull reactor . According to reports DAE is working on a 180 MWt reactor for S5.

 

[average american]

A nuclear powered submarine or ship can be built, but the problem is the risk of a runaway nuclear reactor at the bottom of an Indian port, Considering the way Russian builds things and Indians operate them I would be having second thoughts about this entire idea. Is this the sub where 22 men have already died from an accident. ?

Russian nuclear submarine accident leaves 20 dead, 22 injured -2 | Russia | RIA Novosti

 

[sayareakd]

Reactor building is not the real headache, small reactors were developed quite early infact. The problem lies with the power being generated by the reactor. The one powering the Arihant is said to be 80MWe, while the one powering the Akula is 190MWe, more than 2 times, with nearly identical weight. The Arihant does not have similar speed requirements as the Akula, but still it goes to show the difference in reactor maturity between the two countries.

The other problem is the cooling system for the reactor, and the reliability of the reactor. We know that except France and Britain, all SSN/SSBN operators have had catastrophic failures. This is making the IN extra jittery and they are going for much more stringent tests on the reactors, even more than the Russians. This is again slowing down the development.

ATV and Chakra are two different subs doing different job. ATV rely on stealth element and speed is not the requirement, you need your SSBN to remain stealthy while carrying national nuke SLBM safely out of the enemy eyes and sensors and fire its SLBM when require and fade away in deep ocean.

Chakra is the attack SSN, which rely on brute speed to go after SSBN and destroy it, this is their primary mandate, for that they require speed, speed and more speed, stealth is secondary to their character. Other roles of SSN can be attacking land targets.

Now ATV is our first attempt at nuke sub, we had problems with the nuke reactor, ever since 1980, now this reactor has been running for 4 years at land test facility. Once the design is perfected we have done enough research on nuclear reactor that we can made reactors of different power and sizes, but lets not forget that nuclear sub reactors are difficult to make.

For ATV 4 and subsequent series require more power, due to increase in number of launch tubes and for that new reactor is need. This will take more time and research.

 

[sayareakd]

how soon is soon in Indian English?

We have been hearing soons since like from forever, Tejas inducted soon since last 30 years, or Vikramatiya inducted soon since last 20 years or Rafale inducted soon since the last 10 years.
We really don't know how soon is defined in Indian English, maybe a subtle cultural difference? heheh...

sooner then you think.

 

[Bheeshma]

Why not put two reactors 80MWT on the larger hull for a 12-15K tonne SSBN?

 

[Patriot]

Why not put two reactors 80MWT on the larger hull for a 12-15K tonne SSBN?

It can be very challenging technologically & safety point for us to go with two reactors on one SSBN. Apparently , I have not heard of a SUB with two reactors, if you have info please share. TIA

 

[sayareakd]

It can be very challenging technologically & safety point for us to go with two reactors on one SSBN. Apparently , I have not heard of a SUB with two reactors, if you have info please share. TIA

Propulsion: Two S4G pressurized-water nuclear reactors (PWR)

USS Triton (SSRN-586) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[U Sun Dar]

Re: INS Arihant nuke reactor to be activated in 2-3 weeks

Moving towards completing its nuclear triad, India will activate the atomic reactor on-board the indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant in the "next two to three weeks" paving way for its operational deployment by the Navy soon.

"The nuclear reactor on-board the INS Arihant would be made critical (activated) in next two to three weeks," DRDO chief V K Saraswat told PTI here today.

Nuclear triad is the ability to fire nuclear-tipped missiles from land, air and sea.

He said after the nuclear reactor is activated, the agencies concerned can work towards readying the warship for operational deployments soon.

INS Arihant has been undergoing trials at Navy's key submarine base in Vishakhapatnam and would be launched for sea trials after the nuclear reactor goes critical.

The DRDO has also readied a medium-range nuclear missile BO-5 for being deployed on the Arihant and its last developmental trial was held on January 27 off the coast of Vishakhapatnam.

The nuclear submarine will help India achieve the capability of going into high seas without the need to surface the vessel for long durations.

Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to come up on surface at regular intervals for charging the cells of the vessel.

 

[kurup]

It can be very challenging technologically & safety point for us to go with two reactors on one SSBN. Apparently , I have not heard of a SUB with two reactors, if you have info please share. TIA

Soviet Delta Class SSBN and Typhoon Class SSBN were powered by two reactors.

Typhoon is powered by two OK-650 reactors which also powers Akula Class SSN.

OK-650 reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ray]

how soon is soon in Indian English?

We have been hearing soons since like from forever, Tejas inducted soon since last 30 years, or Vikramatiya inducted soon since last 20 years or Rafale inducted soon since the last 10 years.
We really don't know how soon is defined in Indian English, maybe a subtle cultural difference? heheh...
thirdartillery ↑

How soon is soon in Indian English?

Faster than Ping Pong and some languages which are sing song.

 

[Mariner HK]

 

[Decklander]

180MW reactor is already functional as a testbed. This reactor is being readied for next generation of much more powerful subs which will be followons for Arihant Class and two of them might find way into IAC-2. There are very strong RUMOURS that IAC-2 will be nuke powered. IN says that it is still undecided but the truth is far from it.

 

[sayareakd]

180MW reactor is already functional as a testbed. This reactor is being readied for next generation of much more powerful subs which will be followons for Arihant Class and two of them might find way into IAC-2. There are very strong RUMOURS that IAC-2 will be nuke powered. IN says that it is still undecided but the truth is far from it.

sir that may be true as next generation ATV has to have 18 launch tubes, that means bigger sub and bigger power requirement. Already Hull of two have been made and third under progress (as per news reports). 4th which will be large sub will take some time to build may be 3-4 years, but i think L&T has sufficient experience and they will deliver :thumb:. Rest DRDO and IN will do the needful.

I think if they shift the fabrication of hull near the assembly line it will save time, already new shed for L&T has come up. Lets see how fast they are going to deliver it in future.

One thing is for sure, L&T is going to make lot of subs and ships for private sector.

 

[Bheeshma]

Should we be releasing this info in pulic? When the S-3/4/5/6 come navy might release the spec of S-2 arihant.

 

[sayareakd]

Should we be releasing this info in pulic? When the S-3/4/5/6 come navy might release the spec of S-2 arihant.

you didnt get it how it works, when this happen, then Uncle send someone in other countries saying that next target of those subs are us therefore dont help them in any way. So its better to keep things low key. Info is to be given on need to know basis.