India's police force is pathetic': Fareed Zakaria

[johnee]

There are more groups in the US to shout hoarse about human rights, minorities rights etc. But, they DON'T have vote bank politics. That is the difference. Plus their system is different. Petty politicians over here do anything for "kursi", but in the US there is no kursi for them only a lawmakers tag. Only genuine politician comes up.

Not necessarily. Politicians are always after power. However, in US, there are also a lot of lobbies present that have the power to punish the govt(or atleast expose it and discredit it) if they yield to vote bank politics and ignore the national problems especially a one like terrorist threat.

Also, the presidents have only two terms and therefore, there is a limit to how much they can covet. That also clamps the dynastic streak in politicians to a large extent.

All that is missing in India.

Police over there is not the rakhael of the politicians. Lots of differences. We have a lot to do.

Police are not policy makers, so their role is always curtailed. Yes, I am in affirmitive that our police must increase their standards and they have a long way to go. But my point is that the politicians, the present Govt to be precise, is the first roadblock in this path.

The Govt of the day is neck deep in corruption and is against any investigation into terrorist threats lest their vote bank be damaged and therefore they are against police going after terrorists or even completing their investigations. In this scenario, what can the police do, even if they were very efficient?

 

[johnee]

the main reason for all shit in India is becuz illiterate leaders misinterpret secularism... secularism is a term that came into being in europe by the ppl when they gt fed up of the feudal landlords who were supported by churches by making them holy figures... ppl in renaissance separated polity from religion and coined SECULARISM means church and parliament will be on sep course from then onwards... in India ppl retermed it as polity paying equal attention to all religions.. that is instead of not being related to anyone in India parliament is public and related to all... and thats why all use it fro respective purpose...

wah re wah, you have nailed it. Secularism was anti-dote for Europe constrained by Church and its ridiculous dogmas.
India never needed that phenomenon. It was imposed by foreign-bred, west-enamoured and educated leadership that was illiterate in Indian ways.

India needs its own reformation, no doubt. But there is no need to complicate it by imposing structures of other lands.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Call a spade a spade mr zakaria and don't beat around the bush as your article is, either you know little about the country or you are on purpose are not looking at the real problem.

Fact of the matter is the politics of India is pathetic and no more and that is the real culprit.

Victim cards get played, religious cards get played, polarization gets played and it happens at the highest level in this country and all the time. The real solution is simple, a hands off strategy by the political class and the bureaucracy from the policing affairs and let the police do what they are supposed to do but that is precisely what is not allowed to happen in India, certainly not till the time a system in our country touches the rock bottom, on the contrary everything here gets politicized here.

Don't just put the blame on the police, they are pathetic because they have been made pathetic by the politicians of this country, point out the political system and political elite of this country mr zakaria.

 

[Yusuf]

Not necessarily. Politicians are always after power. However, in US, there are also a lot of lobbies present that have the power to punish the govt(or atleast expose it and discredit it) if they yield to vote bank politics and ignore the national problems especially a one like terrorist threat.

Also, the presidents have only two terms and therefore, there is a limit to how much they can covet. That also clamps the dynastic streak in politicians to a large extent.

All that is missing in India.



Police are not policy makers, so their role is always curtailed. Yes, I am in affirmitive that our police must increase their standards and they have a long way to go. But my point is that the politicians, the present Govt to be precise, is the first roadblock in this path.

The Govt of the day is neck deep in corruption and is against any investigation into terrorist threats lest their vote bank be damaged and therefore they are against police going after terrorists or even completing their investigations. In this scenario, what can the police do, even if they were very efficient?

Well that is a systemic problem which requires larger reforms.

If police can't do jack today because of politicians then it says a lot about the system.

A lot of Indias problems are because of the system which is flawed. How are we going to go about it to correct this is a million dollar question. Constitutional changes of this scale are easier said than done.

 

[Ray]

if the Govt is pathetic, then why blame the police.

Today, Chidambaram has said that he can quote many places where there are terrorist attacks and so........

Wonderful logic, indeed!

One wonders if the country that started the War On Terror and which the world Muslims felt was a War on Islam, can sanitise itself from terrorist attacks, then why not India?

If we do not send a strong message to the terrorists and instead pamper those caught and not hung, be it the SL killers, Afzal Guru or Kasab and drag their cases on one excuse or the other, then the terrorists will naturally feel that they can have a field day!

Chidambaram says that the people have to play their part and be vigilant. No doubt. However, if someone reports, there will be a thousand one problem for the one reporting! And report to who? A country that does not allow FIRs to be lodged without a whole lot of hassle, will care about anyone reporting?

If the police is pathetic, then who is responsible?

 

[kalkibhagwan]

here instead of tackling our problems we are more interested in shifting the blame on others. The leader of the pack is our very own home minister, mr.p.chidambaram.

why dont these terrorist blow up ministers??? I am ready to pay them for that...

 

[Yusuf]

why dont these terrorist blow up ministers??? I am ready to pay them for that...

Abetting terrorism? Don't even joke about it in the open.

 

[sob]

If you look at Delhi as an example most of the cops are either on VIP duty or assigned to guard high value stationary targets. Such is the shortage that cops drawn from TN are on duty at Tihar Jail.

There is a shortage of boots on the ground. Our premier agency Intelligence Bureau is used to keep tabs on the opposition parties, leaders and also for giving electoral feedback. Where do they have time for other mundane jobs like keeping tab on terror modules.

Moreover the present Govt. With electoral considerations is focussing solely on the so called Right wing terror, mistakenly thinking that this will give them electoral benefits.

 

[The Messiah]

Nonsense. US police brutality and and high handedness is the most famous in the Western world. Some countries are just glorified police states where people think they have Liberties and when the get screwed by the cops the realise the truth.

There are plenty of videos on the internet showing a lot of policing in the US. I saw a horrible incident of an innocent white woman being stripped naked by male cops and locked in a cell.That's not the only one.They can strip search anyone on "reasonable suspicion" degrading their dignity. US has the highest number of Prisoners in the world along with the highest rates of Prison rape often by the guards themselves.


Civil Liberties my ass, you can get jailed for a long time under terrorism charges for writing a blog about the US president and the "war on terrorism". Remember the case of Vikram Buddhi who is in jail for posting something on Yahoo.

The US is a world unto itself protected by the Atlantic an the Pacific and sharing borders with friendly puppet states. If they had been in the same socio economic situation and geographic location as India.........

Good point.

I cringe every time we are compared to usa by pointing out that no terror strikes have occured after 9/11 without taking into account the geography of both the countries. Even now yanks cant deter illegal mexican workers from crossing over the border or stopping drugs being transported. Luckily for them these mexicans are only looking for work rather than blowing stuff up. While we are surrounded on all four sides from where terrorists can easily enter. plus pakis, bangladeshis, nepalis, lankans can all easily mix into the crowd while its not easy do that in usa.

 

[The Messiah]

If you look at Delhi as an example most of the cops are either on VIP duty or assigned to guard high value stationary targets. Such is the shortage that cops drawn from TN are on duty at Tihar Jail.

There is a shortage of boots on the ground. Our premier agency Intelligence Bureau is used to keep tabs on the opposition parties, leaders and also for giving electoral feedback. Where do they have time for other mundane jobs like keeping tab on terror modules.

Moreover the present Govt. With electoral considerations is focussing solely on the so called Right wing terror, mistakenly thinking that this will give them electoral benefits.

It is not entirely true. Security for vip is done by crpf.

In anycase they have to protect these people...otherwise they would be sitting ducks. Key is to increase strength of police force.

 

[kalkibhagwan]

Modernizing the police force is needed.. constant patrolling is required... and more sophisticated guns and ammunitions are required...

 

[roma]

Nonsense. US police brutality and and high handedness is the most famous in the Western world. Some countries are just glorified police states where people think they have Liberties and when the get screwed by the cops the realise the truth.

There are plenty of videos on the internet showing a lot of policing in the US. I saw a horrible incident of an innocent white woman being stripped naked by male cops and locked in a cell.That's not the only one.They can strip search anyone on "reasonable suspicion" degrading their dignity. US has the highest number of Prisoners in the world along with the highest rates of Prison rape often by the guards themselves.


Civil Liberties my ass, you can get jailed for a long time under terrorism charges for writing a blog about the US president and the "war on terrorism". Remember the case of Vikram Buddhi who is in jail for posting something on Yahoo.

The US is a world unto itself protected by the Atlantic an the Pacific and sharing borders with friendly puppet states. If they had been in the same socio economic situation and geographic location as India.........

dang well written mate

 

[mattster]

Nonsense. US police brutality and and high handedness is the most famous in the Western world. Some countries are just glorified police states where people think they have Liberties and when the get screwed by the cops the realise the truth.

There are plenty of videos on the internet showing a lot of policing in the US. I saw a horrible incident of an innocent white woman being stripped naked by male cops and locked in a cell.That's not the only one.They can strip search anyone on "reasonable suspicion" degrading their dignity. US has the highest number of Prisoners in the world along with the highest rates of Prison rape often by the guards themselves.


Civil Liberties my ass, you can get jailed for a long time under terrorism charges for writing a blog about the US president and the "war on terrorism". Remember the case of Vikram Buddhi who is in jail for posting something on Yahoo.

The US is a world unto itself protected by the Atlantic an the Pacific and sharing borders with friendly puppet states. If they had been in the same socio economic situation and geographic location as India.........

Your post is a load of drivel. Dont take isolated incidents, and extrapolate it to the end of the earth.

I have been pulled over by cops for traffic offenses at least 10 times in 25 years.
I can only recall one incident where the cop was unprofessional and over the top.

Sure there are some young numnut Yahoos in every police-force anywhere in the world.
But by large most US police officers are very professional and if you politely comply with what they ask you to do - then you will not have any problems. They dont take bribes or steal. Its a very rare case when that happens.

People get strip searched when there is a strong suspicion that narcotics are involved.
Police officers in inner cities that have large gang violence and drug problems have to deal with armed suspects all the time.
That makes the job a 100 times more difficult than countries where guns are outlawed.

So dont compare US police with other Western countries with strict gun laws. The US is not Sweden or the UK or France or Canada !!

You can call the President any derogatory name you want but unless you threaten a public official - no one is touch you, arrest you of even charge you. People who get arrested only when they come under suspicion of inciting or planning violence.

 

[neo29]

One of the major concerns of Indian Police is health. I personally feel 90% are unfit with huge tummies. Most wont be able to run long distances to catch thieves.

 

[sob]

It is not entirely true. Security for vip is done by crpf.

In anycase they have to protect these people...otherwise they would be sitting ducks. Key is to increase strength of police force.

CRPF has only taken over the security of the Airport and some other installations. However the outer periphery is still guarded by the DP. In the capital with hundreds of VIPs, maybe even a couple of thousand, in the majority of the cases the protection duty is with the DP.
When the the PM, President or Madame Gandhi go in a convoy have you seen the hundreds of policemen spread throughout the route, the VIP has to take, and they have to be in place hours before on three alternate routes. Most of these cops are not pulled from their regular duties, but they are on regular standby.
These leaders have to be guarded but nobody has yet to make an assessment on the exact force requirement, or whether the particular person is in need of such levels of protection.

 

[Yusuf]

B Raman's reply to Fareed Zakaria.

INDIA'S COUNTER-TERRORISM RECORD: AN OPEN LETTER TO FAREED ZAKARIA



Dear Mr.Fareed Zakaria,



I read with considerable interest extracts from your interview to the CNN-IBN on counter-terrorism in which, inter alia, you have compared the track record of the Indian counter-terrorism community with that of the US.


2. Rediff.com has reported on your CNN-IBN interview as follows: "

" When looking at the capacity and talents of intelligence agencies around the world, I don't think anyone has spoken highly about the Indian intelligence agencies.


"As a matter of reporting, India's counter-terrorism operations are not regarded very high. This is an area India has not focused on a great deal.


"India has not done good because as it has a large Muslim population, but again India's police force is pathetic. Look at Mumbai -- India's police force is not a police force -- it is a patronage job that is given to people to support communities, they don't know how to police."


3. Before I comment substantively on your observations, I must introduce myself: I was an officer of the Indian Police Service (IPS). I joined the IPS in 1961 and retired in August,1994, after having served for about four years in the Madhya Pradesh Police, one year in the Intelligence Bureau (IB) of the Government of India and 26 years in the Research & Analysis Wing ( R&AW), India's external intelligence agency. When I was in service, the R&AW had two divisions dealing with terrorism----one with indigenous terrorism --- what many now call home-grown terrorism--- and the other with international terrorism. I headed the Division dealing with indigenous terrorism from 1981 to 1985 and headed both the Divisions from 1988 till my retirement in 1994. Between 1991 and 1994, I used to wear a second hat as the head of the division responsible for intelligence liaison with foreign intelligence agencies. In that capacity, I had interacted closely with the intelligence agencies of the US and the UK----particularly in matters relating to counter-terrorism."


4. The Indian track-record in counter-terrorism is not one of abysmal failure. We have had remarkable success stories particularly against Khalistani terrorism in Punjab and against the terrorism of Al Umma in Tamil Nadu. In both these instances, it was the local police force which led the counter-terrorism operations and won final victory despite all the handicaps suffered by it. In Jammu and Kashmir too--- though final victory has not yet been won--- the Indian counter-terrorism forces led by the Army have succeeded remarkably in bringing what we call cross-border terrorism under control.


5. The poor track-record of the Indian counter-terrorism community has been mainly against jihadi terrorism in North India.


6. We have had instances of jihadi terrorism in the South too in places such as Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh and Bengaluru. In the 1990s, we had the Al Umma phenomenon in Tamil Nadu and Kerala.


7.The police in South India has generally done better against terrorism emanating from the Muslim community than the Police in North/West India because the political class and the media in the South have generally refrained from demonising the Police and the intelligence agencies whenever they have acted against Muslims who have taken to terrorism. The Police in the South has, therefore, the confidence that it can do whatever is legally permissible in order to bring terrorism involving the participation of some Muslims under control.


8. Thankfully, in the South, there has been no politicisation till now of counter-terrorism which affected some members of the Muslim community. Unfortunately, there was politicisation of counter-terrorism directed against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE). We paid a heavy price for it in May 1991, when Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated by the LTTE in Chennai. Since then, this politicisation too has come down.


9. In North and West India, the admittedly poor record of the counter-terrorism community against jihadi terrorism---whether of the home-grown or Pakistani variety--- has been considerably due to the reluctance of the political class to act against the terrorist sanctuaries in Pakistan and its equal reluctance to act against those members of the Muslim community who take to terrorism.


10. It is very unfair on your part to have compared the track-record of the Indian counter-terrorism community with that of the US. Many things which are permitted against Muslims in the US will not be permitted in India and we in the counter-terrorism community feel should not be permitted by the political leadership. Examples of what we in India do not do and will never do are:
"¢ Treating a Muslim as a suspect by virtue of his religion and appearance unless proved otherwise. Shah Rukh Khan, the famous Indian film actor, was treated as a suspect in the US. Such things will not happen in India.
"¢ Treating jihadi suspects as "war criminals" and keeping them in a military camp (Guantanamo Bay) and subjecting them to trials by military tribunals.
"¢ Use of air strikes against terrorists and their sanctuaries, killing a large number of innocent Muslims. Since India became independent in 1947, we have used the Air Force only once in Mizoram in 1966 when the Mizo insurgents over-ran almost the entire State.
"¢ The so-called rendition flights by which the US counter-terrorism agencies kept flying Muslim suspects arrested abroad from country to country in order to avoid having to produce them before a court of law.
"¢ The extraordinary methods of torture sanctified by the US Justice department that were used against Muslim suspects---whether in Guantanamo Bay or elsewhere.



11. I am proud to say that neither the Indian political class nor the Indian counter-terrorism community would ever think of resorting to such diabolical methods. Even if we thought of them, the Indian media would have been the first to start a campaign against them.


12.Mr.Zakaria, how many of you in the US media world raised your voice against these methods when these were being used in the years after 9/11. Did you raise your voice against them, Mr.Zakaria? You all believed that any method is a good method against Muslim suspects till Al Qaeda is brought under control.


13. We have a self-denying counter-terrorism policy. We consciously deny to ourselves many practices which you in the US permit to yourselves in your counter-terrorism against Muslim suspects. We are proud of such self-denying provisions in our counter-terrorism policy.


14.One last point, I should make. India is next door neighbour to Pakistan. Much of our jihadi terrorism emanates from Pakistan. The US is thousands of KMs away from Pakistan. We face a terrorist threat from Pakistan every day. You face a threat sporadically. And yet, the kind of methods that you have used against Pakistan we have never used. We fight against terrorism emanating from Pakistan with one hand tied in the back.


15. It is not only because our political leadership will not permit it, but it is also because of the hypocrisy of the US Government which will use any methods against Pakistan in order to protect the US Homeland and American lives, but never hesitates to come in the way of India following a similar policy to protect the Indian Homeland and Indian lives.


With regards,
B.Raman


http://ramanstrategicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/09/indias-counter-terrorism-record-open.html

 

[Singh]

CRPF has only taken over the security of the Airport and some other installations. However the outer periphery is still guarded by the DP. In the capital with hundreds of VIPs, maybe even a couple of thousand, in the majority of the cases the protection duty is with the DP.
When the the PM, President or Madame Gandhi go in a convoy have you seen the hundreds of policemen spread throughout the route, the VIP has to take, and they have to be in place hours before on three alternate routes. Most of these cops are not pulled from their regular duties, but they are on regular standby.
These leaders have to be guarded but nobody has yet to make an assessment on the exact force requirement, or whether the particular person is in need of such levels of protection.

CISF looks after Airport I think. And nowadays many of the VVIPs fly in choppers iirc.

 

[Singh]

If you look at Delhi as an example most of the cops are either on VIP duty or assigned to guard high value stationary targets. Such is the shortage that cops drawn from TN are on duty at Tihar Jail.

TN cops were specially requested iirc to prevent smuggling and trafficking in the prison complex. I think even some other paramilitary forces help out, though not sure.

 

[debasree]

without modernisation and police reform u cannot expect to do better jobs.when the allocated sums are used to buy luxury cars and posh furniture of officers and not the basic equipment like better weapons and communication this type of incident will also happen in future.

 

[johnee]

So, does the buck stop with police force?

Bringing in the role of police is simply to obfuscate the matter and deflect the blame on the Govt. If the police is indeed pathetic then why is Govt not doing anything? After 26/11, Govt could have done a lot, it would have had people's backing. Yet, it did not overhaul the police. On the contrary we have people like Digvijay Singh of the ruling party, backed by clown prince, who do not hesitate to politicise even 26/11. So, why blame the police?

Lets say the police do catch the terrorists, what will happen then? They will be sent to a high-security jail indefinitely and they would fed and clothed by public money. Home Minister does not even know how ridiculous his excuses for not hanging Kasab are...
Does anybody honestly think that this Govt wants to fight terror?

So, bringing in the issue of police reforms or police standards is nothing more than a blatant attempt to deflect the blame from congress party and its leadership. People are fed up. Platitudes are been so routine after every terror event that now people are really really disgusted. There are calls for resignation of HM. So, here comes Zakaria, who generally bats for the US Govt, lending his support in trying to extricate Congress from this pit.

Anyway, even if HM quits or more precisely shifted to another dept., what does it change? Nothing. This Govt will pursue its vote bank politics. People knew that. And nothing has changed. Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi, Manmohan Singh, Chidambaram, Pranab Mukherjhee and every damn idiot who defends this Govt, their hands are red with innocent Indian blood. They are directly accountable. If they cant handle it. Then for God sake, they should get lost.

PS: I hope I am not called to some parliamentary inquiry for ranting against these esteemed MPs.