India's Look-East Policy - Targets China, says commentator

[Tshering22]

we had chabahar in Iran but due to sanction thats also not progressing at the rate they should be.

@SHASH2K

Bro, Burmese are also sanctioned by the West; still China went ahead to construct listening posts and bases there. Some claim the bases are even active there. This shows the failure of sarkari dodos in MEA. Simple as that. Their failed foreign policy in not utilizing an opportunity Iran gave, is clearly visible here. I think it is red-tapism and bureaucracy that is slowing down work in Chahbahar port.

 

[Agantrope]

Buddy, Burmese aren't as "evil" as portrayed by Western countries. They are a small country who want to be left alone We like idiots have meddled in their internal affairs by supporting Suu Kyi for the sake of appeasing United States and that blunder caused China to score a goal. Also we must consider future exports of Dhruv, Tejas, Arjun and Shivalik style strategic weapons alongside shipborne missiles like Dhanush and torpedoes like Varunastra. These strategic weapons will enable building confidence measures.

Amnesty International and Human Rights Commission are bigots and hypocrites who want to bog India down with unnecessary guilt. These bloody puppets of radicals and fundamentalists place us second to Iraq in religious freedom despite half of India being given to Missionaries and Mullahs. These bigots accuse India of trading nuclear secrets with Iran when we don't even have a decent defence relations with them. China shows these two organizations "The Finger" and that is why they don't dare to criticize her, enabling the Dragon to score goals after goals while we cower down to Western pressure for no bloody reason.

If we can ignore the violence against Buddhist monks and India can remain silent on that because of the sham our government calls 'secularism', then we should forget Western demands for democracy in Burma. Burmese are never against us, they did nothing against us and we needlessly made them trust China because of pressure from people who live 3 oceans away. About time we come to our senses and start developing our foreign policies independent of what other countries have to say.

India have messed a lot in Burma, but still india is the crucial supplier of the high-tech equipments and all. The only mistake i can see the support of the Suu Kyi, but still Old Russian have a strong hand with the Burma and India is equally strong with them. Chinese entered there only to build the infra structure (but who knows). India is building a port there to access the north east via that port.

Coco Island is too small to build a base there. It is a watch station for them to monitor the Indian missile test and if possible to collect some pieces that are scattered in the water. India relation with the burma can never turn hostile and it is now a good relation with the indian cos are building the natural gas exploration

 

[Tshering22]

India have messed a lot in Burma, but still india is the crucial supplier of the high-tech equipments and all. The only mistake i can see the support of the Suu Kyi, but still Old Russian have a strong hand with the Burma and India is equally strong with them. Chinese entered there only to build the infra structure (but who knows). India is building a port there to access the north east via that port.

Coco Island is too small to build a base there. It is a watch station for them to monitor the Indian missile test and if possible to collect some pieces that are scattered in the water. India relation with the burma can never turn hostile and it is now a good relation with the indian cos are building the natural gas exploration

Buddy, technically the Burmese should be as close as Bhutan is to us but most unfortunately because of stupid government policies, we're hanging in the middle of nowhere. Remember, we are in general surrounded by enemies who have dubious policies that somehow favour our open foes rather than a balanced neutrality. So we need to secure as many as 'middle path' nations' confidence as possible. Southeast, Bhutan and Nepal should be brought into our confidence. And Awami League in Bangladesh has a very small chance to continue in long run as radicalism and their opposition the BNP are getting stronger because of militant attitude growing. Therefore, We better hold the 5-6 nations that are near or around us properly before we become isolated.

Ironically the countries closest to us in religious and cultural terms are our most estranged friends.

 

[roma]

China will never be able to have supply lines to do anything in the Indian Ocean in a sustained manner.

my suspicion is that their idea is to try to repeat 1962 in the indian ocean somewhere , anywhere. In other words not an all-out sustained war but rather grab and steal territory while india is " fast asleep" and by time india "awakens" the lost (naval ) territory would have already been consolidated and gone from india for "ever" (as it were).

and "asleep" includes being aware but either not reacting well enough, being aware but not having the equipment , organization, know-how or qualified leadership to react effectively OR continually being in a reactive mode not pro-active4 and thus alway one step or more behind china and thus giving them the advantage of the first or first few moves and thus enough time or space to "steal " naval territory from india

 

[LETHALFORCE]

my suspicion is that their idea is to try to repeat 1962 in the indian ocean somewhere , anywhere. In other words not an all-out sustained war but rather grab and steal territory while india is " fast asleep" and by time india "awakens" the lost (naval ) territory would have already been consolidated and gone from india for "ever" (as it were).

and "asleep" includes being aware but either not reacting well enough, being aware but not having the equipment , organization, know-how or qualified leadership to react effectively OR continually being in a reactive mode not pro-active4 and thus alway one step or more behind china and thus giving them the advantage of the first or first few moves and thus enough time or space to "steal " naval territory from india

It is easier to fight in your own backyard then someone else's backyard, China has to move supplies thousands of kilometers in a storm of overwhelming firepower, they may have higher sub numbers but it won't do much to capture or hold any territory, also USA has Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean and India and USA have done 4 naval exercises in the last 10 years more than they have done in all of their history;this was not for fun but for preparation for this scenario.

 

[SHASH2K2]

my suspicion is that their idea is to try to repeat 1962 in the indian ocean somewhere , anywhere. In other words not an all-out sustained war but rather grab and steal territory while india is " fast asleep" and by time india "awakens" the lost (naval ) territory would have already been consolidated and gone from india for "ever" (as it were).

and "asleep" includes being aware but either not reacting well enough, being aware but not having the equipment , organization, know-how or qualified leadership to react effectively OR continually being in a reactive mode not pro-active4 and thus alway one step or more behind china and thus giving them the advantage of the first or first few moves and thus enough time or space to "steal " naval territory from india

controlling sea is lot more different than controlling a piece of land . all sea based assets are on the move and cannot stay at one location to assert their control. as LF has mentioned it will be very very difficult for them to manage their operations so far from their mainland. They may use subs to attack one or two vessels in Indian ocean but in retaliation we can do much more than that as they have lots of economical activity in IOR and its our backyard. We will chose them here .

 

[roma]

i've edited the artile quoted from a member's post above, to hilite the followinf few issues:-

Denial of visa part of China's grand strategy

A REPORT FROM THE NY TIMES ??
A recent report in New York Times indicated that 7,000-11,000 Chinese troops were in the Gilgit-Baltistan region, which was witnessing a rebellion against the Pakistani rule. These Chinese troops were involved in extending the Karakoram highway and construction of railroad. China wants a firm grip on this strategic area .......

LINK TO AND THRU PAK TO GULF
The report also suggests that the Chinese troops constructed 22 tunnels perhaps for the China-Iran gas pipeline. Keeping the strategic importance of Kashmir for China, it is not surprising that it considers Kashmir more valuable than Arunachal Pradesh.


HOPEFULLY ??

Hopefully, China would in future desist from such acts.

1. so the Indian government got it's info from a NY times report ?? - if so , it is HORRIFIC !!!!


2. while most of were puzzeled the prc preferred the " barren " territory of aksai chin and "gave" india arunachal ( policy now reversed) most defence analysts ( including on this dfi as well) attributed prc's preference to a road joining tibet to xinjiang that passed thru' aksai.

i could see however it more as a link to pak kashmir , to assit them in war time. admitedly i didnt see it as a route to the arabian sea. !!

3. hopefully china would desist ?? fat hopes ( referring to the article , not the pERSON POSTING), it's all part of long-term prc policy started since the 1960's and still valid

 

[SHASH2K2]

i've edited the artile quoted from a member's post above, to hilite the followinf few issues:-




1. so the Indian government got it's info from a NY times report ?? - if so , it is HORRIFIC !!!!


2. while most of were puzzeled the prc preferred the " barren " territory of aksai chin and "gave" india arunachal ( policy now reversed) most defence analysts ( including on this dfi as well) attributed prc's preference to a road joining tibet to xinjiang that passed thru' aksai.

i could see however it more as a link to pak kashmir , to assit them in war time. admitedly i didnt see it as a route to the arabian sea. !!

3. hopefully china would desist ?? fat hopes ( referring to the article , not the pERSON POSTING), it's all part of long-term prc policy started since the 1960's and still valid

This whole incidence is horrific . Either India was unaware of entire incidence or GOI tried their level best to suppress the news . I am sure China would not desist from it and their misadventure will increase with time. I can only pray to the god that our GOI wakes up and start doing TIT for TAT else they will keep on creating more and more troubles for that . Its time to take some tough decisions.

 

[Tshering22]

^^ GOI has as usual suppressed the news so that people don't come to know of their lack of foresight and bravery. China will never desist from taking what it feels is beneficial for it be it land or water territories from other countries. GOI is currently occupied by corrupt and short sighted fools who cannot think anything better than the length of their kurtas and traveling in their imported bullet-proof cars. This short-sightedness is the reason why world considers us Indians a JOKE.

Let's face it; NO INTERNATIONAL MAP MAKER dares to make Taiwan a separate country or Tibet as "disputed" while even Google Maps shows both Kashmir and Arunachal as dotted lines. What has GOI done about it? Nothing. Because it consists of a bunch of cowards who cannot see more than their own bank accounts and tea breaks.

 

[SHASH2K2]

^^ GOI has as usual suppressed the news so that people don't come to know of their lack of foresight and bravery. China will never desist from taking what it feels is beneficial for it be it land or water territories from other countries. GOI is currently occupied by corrupt and short sighted fools who cannot think anything better than the length of their kurtas and traveling in their imported bullet-proof cars. This short-sightedness is the reason why world considers us Indians a JOKE.

Let's face it; NO INTERNATIONAL MAP MAKER dares to make Taiwan a separate country or Tibet as "disputed" while even Google Maps shows both Kashmir and Arunachal as dotted lines. What has GOI done about it? Nothing. Because it consists of a bunch of cowards who cannot see more than their own bank accounts and tea breaks.

When computer provided to GOI departments show Arunachal pradesh as part of CHina and Kashmir as part of Pakistan then what else you can expect . I understand that war rhetoric will affect FDI inflow but no country will invest money in a country which is incapable of protecting its sovereignty and its borders.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Asian navies should trust each other - GlobalTimes

Asian navies should trust each other

The Chinese navy's first-ever port call to Myanmar on Sunday has triggered plenty of noise and speculation in India.

The Indian press aligns Myanmar with Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, where they believe China has helped build port facilities, and conclude that the neighboring giant is aimed at building a "string of pearls" for greater space on the Indian Ocean - long considered India's backyard.

Just like the strong reactions from Japan when China's warships made their way through the first island chain into the Pacific Ocean, every step the fledgling power makes to test its wings has been met with suspicion.

The biggest fear, as some foreign strategists asserted, is that China may flex its muscles from one ocean to another, and eventually become a frightening superpower cruising around the world's blue waters.

What a grand picture these strategists are drawing. Some amateur military "experts" will jump into the air over the slightest mention of such an ambitious plan.

The reality of the situation is much less exciting than their fantasies.

Only two escort ships back from their missions to protect Chinese trade fleets from piracy in waters off the Somali coast visited Myanmar. On the way home, the escort group made port calls to Egypt, Italy and Greece.

Conspiracy theories aside, China's navy has been growing stronger over the past few years, and has been reaching places it has never reached before.

Not surprisingly, Japan, South Korea, India and some Southeast Asian countries are concerned.

These countries should be more concerned about the US, the only real super power, which could cause trouble by stoking feelings of discontent.

China has to pay attention to the concerns arising naturally from its neighbors in Asia.

A stronger Chinese navy does not necessarily mean a threat, but an additional peace-keeping force, as is shown in the gulf of Aden.

The fear aimed at the Chinese navy is a dangerous result of neighboring countries' suspicion and mistrust over China's rise.

The process to resolve this mistrust is the same process to resolve the "China threat" theory.

A lack of communications has built up this mistrust and misjudgment.

The Chinese government may try to establish a communication mechanism between navies in Asia.

Only through the better exchange of ideas and explanations can the other countries fully understand the Chinese navy's willingness to cooperate instead of compete.

Asia's navies should not repeat history in the Atlantic Ocean where world powers tried to use their naval powers to conquer each other.


same thing said in 1962

 

[SHASH2K2]

Who is afraid of China?

The Prime Minister drew more attention for what he said about disagreements in the Cabinet than what he said about China. On Cabinet disagreements, he was in a way right and such quarrels were not unknown in Jawaharlal Nehru's time. But once Sardar Patel died, Nehru had no one powerful enough to differ with him in the Cabinet. More was the pity since that is why he got the China policy so wrong.

Indira Gandhi split the party to settle scores with Morarji Desai. But once he went, she had no further Cabinet dissensions. She too could have used some Cabinet dissension rather than stumble into Emergency. There is a role for Cabinet dissension if it is driven by genuine ideological differences but not if it is just a faction fight.

Yet, the more significant observation was about China's intentions in South Asia. For Manmohan Singh to be so explicit, China must have breached some limits—I suspect it is the news that China is building a roadway in Gilgit and Baltistan which will let it get its trucks all the way down to Karachi and the sea. The Great Game is alive again. In the 19th century, it was Russia looking for a salt water port. Now it is China and China seems to be winning the Great Game.
It is good that India is now taking China's activities seriously and thinking aloud as to what it means. One wishes for co-operation with China and much mutual benefit from trade. But the truth remains that India and China share a large uneasy border. China has never given up its claim to large chunks of territory which is on India's side. It believes that the border was fixed by British Imperialists while China was weak. Now that China is strong again and aspiring to be Middle Kingdom once more, China wants its old territory back.
Indian defence and foreign policy has been for too long been shaped by Pakistan. India has fought four wars with Pakistan and lost none of them. India and China fought twice in 1962 and both times India was humiliated. Large chunks of India's territory are occupied by China. The inroads in Baltistan impinge on Kashmir. India's Pakistan policy needs to come together with its China policy. No wonder the PM is worried.

India has been for too long unsure of itself in international relations. In the first forty years, it punched above its weight lecturing the world about peace and morality. The world did not take much notice. Now India is an economic powerhouse, but it is punching below its weight . It is unsure that it is a potential big power. This inferiority complex came out during the debates over the India-US nuclear deal. There is a lingering feeling that the Big Bad Wolf out there will devour India.
This is false. The India-US deal is, as I have said before, a 'just in case alliance' for the two who are, and need to be, wary of China. This is not something to be ignored or wished away or denied. There is a likelihood, perhaps small or maybe not, that China will come in conflict with US and/or India. India has to be prepared for such a scenario. India cannot be at ease about the border. It can also not ignore China's action along the Indian Ocean and all long the seas where China is building a 'pearl necklace' of ports as Britain had done during its imperial days.
China has big ambitions as the Middle Kingdom Mark 2. It may overreach itself as other hegemons have done, but it is certainly trying. India's history does not afford any parallel to such grandiose thinking. The Cholas were a maritime power in the Indian Ocean. But that apart, India has never had maritime empires. Its main aspiration has been to be a single united territory.

It is this aspiration which will be threatened if India does not take China seriously. China in Gilgit is a danger sign. India has problems stretching all the way to Arunachal Pradesh across its border. It will not go away by crying Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai.

 

[SHASH2K2]

India PM warns China wants foothold in South Asia

(Reuters) - China is seeking to expand its influence in South Asia at India's expense, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh warned in rare public criticism of his country's main rival for regional resources and geopolitical clout.

Singh's comments follow repeated diplomatic sparring between the two Asian powers over the last two years, reflecting growing friction over their disputed borders and roles as emerging global powers despite bilateral trade that has grown 30-fold since 2000.

"China would like to have a foothold in South Asia and we have to reflect on this reality," Singh was quoted as saying by The Times of India on Tuesday. "We have to be aware of this."

"There is a new assertiveness among the Chinese. It is difficult to tell which way it will go. So it's important to be prepared."

The newspaper also quoted Singh as saying that China could use India's "soft underbelly" of Kashmir, a region disputed with Pakistan, "to keep India in low level equilibrium."

But it also quoted Singh as saying he believed the world was large enough for India and China to "cooperate and compete."

An official at the prime minister's office, on condition of anonymity, said the newspaper quotes were correct.

Answering reporters' questions about Singh's remarks, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu gave an upbeat view of ties that did not suggest Beijing is spoiling for a fight.

"Development of bilateral relations benefits both countries and region as a whole," Jiang said in Beijing.

Analysts said that despite decades of mistrust, the current spat is unlikely to snowball if past diplomatic sparring is anything to go by. China is India's biggest trade partner.

While trade has grown 30-fold since 2000, the tension highlights how economic ties alone may not be enough to resolve the two countries growing friction.

"Mutual confidence between the countries is far from sufficient," said Zhao Gancheng, an expert on Sino-Indian relations in Beijing. "That problem is rising in importance."

China defeated India in a 1962 war, but they still spar over their disputed 3,500 km (2,170 mile) border and the presence of exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, in India. China's support for India's arch-enemy Pakistan, which backs separatists in disputed Kashmir and also claims the region in full, has not helped defuse tensions.

India holds 45 percent of the disputed Himalayan region while Pakistan controls a third. China holds the remainder of Kashmir, while India and Pakistan, have fought two wars over the territory.

"His (Singh's) understanding is China has crossed the red lines that affect India's core sovereignty concerns," said Srikanth Kondapalli, chairman of the Center for East Asian Studies at New Delhi's Jawaharlal Nehru University."

"There are green lines such as trade but there are concerns there as well, such as the (trade) imbalance and anti-dumping concerns. There is also a realization in India that you have to make your displeasure more explicit to be taken seriously."

In 2009, India was China's tenth biggest trade partner, and bilateral trade was worth $43.4 billion, according to Chinese customs figures. For India, China is its biggest trade partner.

Last month, India criticized China's denial of a visa to an Indian general from Kashmir. New Delhi later said it was also worried by China's influence in the Indian Ocean.

China has invested in the ports in Pakistan and Sri Lanka, as well as the mining and energy sectors in Myanmar, irking India as it seeks to protect shipping lanes in a region that feeds 80 percent of China's and 65 percent of India's oil needs.

Last year, the Indian media reported on Chinese incursions along the border, incidents the India government shrugged off.

 

[ejazr]

India in South East Asia: India gets observer status at ASEAN inter-parl assembly

The Hindu : News / International : U.S. working to draw India more to Asia Pacific region

The U.S. is working to draw India to the Asia Pacific region, a top Obama Administration official told lawmakers.

"One of the desires of the administration is to take a multi-faceted approach, deeper integration in regional diplomacy, in multi-lateral institutions, working with India, drawing India in more to Asian-Pacific region, working towards consequential diplomacy with China," said Kurt Campbell, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs.

Campbell, who holds regular sub-dialogue with India on its 'Look East Policy', was responding to questions from U.S. Senators at a Congressional hearing on Korea organised by the Senate Armed Services Committee on Korean Peninsula.

At a separate discussion held at the U.S. Institute of Peace -- a Washington-based think-tank -- Campbell said India's emergence, in Asia, has been a major development of the region in the last few years.

Responding to questions from anxious Senators about the increasing power of China, Campbell said this is not a relationship centre that the U.S. has much experience with.

"We've had a monochromatic kind of relationship in the past with the Soviet Union. That's not what the relationship is like with China. It's deep. It's complicated.

"There are areas of cooperation, and there are areas of discord. How we manage that is going to be the primary diplomatic challenge of the U.S. over the course of the next generation," he said.

Senator John McCain said China's recent behaviour make it even harder to imagine how to formulate an effective strategy on North Korea.

"Rather than support the Republic of Korea, after the sinking of the Cheonan, acknowledge North Korea's blame, and use its leverage with North Korea to change its behaviour, China has instead worked to water down the response of the UN, shielded North Korea from accepting culpability for its aggressive acts and even challenged the right of the U.S. and our allies to conduct joint exercises in international waters," McCain said.

On this, Campbell said that the Cheonan incident made it clear that China had a very complex calculus that they look at on the Korean Peninsula.

"I think, at a strategic level, the U.S. and China share some things in common. We want to maintain peace and stability on the Korea Peninsula," said the U.S. official.

"We seek a Korean Peninsula without nuclear weapons. But... they have a long historic relationship with N Korea.

They also have, in the last 10 to 15 years, built a very strong relationship with South Korea," he said.

 

[ajtr]

Thats since WW2 usa always considered india in pacific command and pakistan in central command(CENTCOM).Thats one reason india always conducts military exercise with USPACOM and pakistan with CENTCOM.

 

[neo29]

No wonder we are lately hearing news from the Pentagon about Chinese military buildup and missile buildup on Indian borders. A perfect game plan by US to pull India into the SK,Japan,Taiwan,Vietnam and US group.

 

[Minghegy]

US: We see India as an East Asia country

Mon Sep 20, 1:45 PM
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A senior US official on Monday defended a role for China in South Asia despite Indian sensitivities and said that New Delhi likewise had a role to play in East Asia.

President Barack Obama's administration has tried to broaden relations with both emerging Asian powers but it has struggled to address perceptions in New Delhi that the United States is more interested in China.

Some Indian pundits reacted with dismay last year when Obama visited Beijing and, in a joint statement with President Hu Jintao, called for the United States and China to cooperate in South Asia.

"I know there is a certain sensitivity maybe about that, but I don't see that it should be the case," Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg said Monday of the Indian concerns.

"China has an important role -- it's a neighbor of South Asia -- and it's unimaginable that China would not be involved. And so the question is can we work together in a positive way on shared interests in creating peace, stability and economic opportunity in South Asia," Steinberg said.

Steinberg, addressing the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, said that the United States likewise was engaging India over East Asia and considered New Delhi a "key partner."

"We see India as (an) East Asia country. We engage with them on issues like North Korea and the like because we think of the importance that India plays," he said.

Steinberg said China could play a role in bringing stability to Afghanistan and Pakistan, two key priorities for the Obama administration as it campaigns against Islamic extremism.

India has longstanding territorial disputes with China and has been suspicious about Beijing's close relations with Pakistan.

The United States earlier this year voiced concerns to Beijing about its planned sale of two civilian nuclear reactors to Islamabad.

Obama plans to pay his first presidential visit to India in November. Many Indians have fond memories of former president George W. Bush, who championed a landmark nuclear cooperation deal with New Delhi.

US defends China role in South Asia - Yahoo! Canada News

 

[Tshering22]

No wonder we are lately hearing news from the Pentagon about Chinese military buildup and missile buildup on Indian borders. A perfect game plan by US to pull India into the SK,Japan,Taiwan,Vietnam and US group.

We can live outside that team and still be a part of it. Come on now, I don't think the US seriously expects us to go down to Japan and South Korea's level of "चमचागीरी". No Indian political circle can afford that. Also Vietnam won't be a "junior" country to anyone. It has a fierce reputation despite its poverty and considers itself an individual player. The point is, even if US is false, it is important that we keep the buildups in check because otherwise our Government SLEEPS OFF. Such periodic alarms are important to check our government's preparation to counter China, otherwise if we keep relying on the current type of GOI, we'd find (goodness forbid) Chinese sitting in Assam, Sikkim and Ladakh. I would anyday preferred India to be called a "war hawk" and be on my toes prepared for defending the country listening to US alarmists, than sleep off listening to our sleeping intelligence and weak, pacifist, defence-oblivious government.

 

[Ray]

The US indicated that they want to cooperate with China in Asia, practically indicating a carte blance for China to have a carnival so to say.

On the other hand, it wants India to have a greater interaction with the US in the Pacific region.

Rather a clever move by the US, taking it for granted that India will jump to, while encouraging Chinese hegemonic aspirations!!

India must take it easy and look busy i.e. do exactly what is in her interest and yet at the same time, give a semblance of doing what the US wants.

We must look East to defang China and its hegemonic tendencies, but on our own strategic requirements and not that of the US. India should use US assets to project India's own strategic requirements and if necessary, appear as a proxy, where the anti US sentiments still exists.

By appearing to toe the US line, India should extract her pound of flesh by ensuring that the US does not keel and be bowled over with Pakistan and arm her to the teeth!

 

[Iamanidiot]

Ray sir
Most us negotiators fell Indians are stubborn and hard bargainers and even harder to tame .They feel it is easier to reach a decision based on consensus with asian countries than with india