Indian Woman for Combat Duties

[sthf]

Gender sensitivity training starts at home. The military has no other option but to invest time, money & HR via building of camaraderie, gender specific training and takings especially for women. In this day and age not to have women in certain types of law enforcement & paramilitary forces is not possible.

NO

You cannot stop women from wanting to serve the country, best is to empower them, select trainees based on bench marked physical standards matched for women. You can't hope for every woman to do half the shit even a regular infantry man can but they can be taught a lot of things and they can be formidable.

This is not a right, it is a privilege. You are yet to explain it to me why do we need women in combat roles? Do they bring something to the table that men don't? Some kind of special skill sets, increased intelligence, anything?

Keep in mind that being an all voluntary force we need to keep good folks when they meet the standards (which should be slightly different for men & women)

We need soldiers who don't have 25% less upper body strength. We need soldiers who are not entitled to 6 (x2) months of maternity leaves in their 5 year long SSC. We need soldiers who are stronger, taller, faster in THOUSANDS each year.

My mother at the age 16 was a NCC top shooter. She won the national competition for marksmanship. She put 10/10 on the bullseye from 400 yards away without a scope using a Lee Enfield / Ishapore rifle. She was meant to pick up her medal from the PM but my grandpa didn't let her go since was only 16 and long travel back then was not ok for him. I sometimes think, had my mother actually seen battle, she would have taken several dozens heads off with ease. Some people be it men or women are just naturally talented.

My grandmother did her schooling and later graduation at Banasthali Vidyapeeth where she learned horse riding, shooting, swimming etc in the 1940s. Vast majority of Indian women were illiterate at the time.

Comparing exceptions with norms is utterly moronic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Please don't waste my time with flawed logic. I have very little patience for SJWs. You can have the most capable military and you can have the most "woke" military. You cannot have both.

 

[aarav]

women are already in most CAPFs but they won't join the armed forces frontline troops like artillery,infantry ,mechanized armoured regiments or the special forces most they could get frontline roles in navy or airforce ,iaf is getting some women pilots ,there was PR about it in media but just that ,it is more of a token thing rather than a policy ,argument given is that if women are captured by the enemy it will lower the morale of the troops

 

[rkhanna]

LIke i said. everyone is welcome to their own misery. Lets move on.

 

[Immanuel]

NO
This is not a right, it is a privilege. You are yet to explain it to me why do we need women in combat roles? Do they bring something to the table that men don't? Some kind of special skill sets, increased intelligence, anything?
We need soldiers who don't have 25% less upper body strength. We need soldiers who are not entitled to 6 (x2) months of maternity leaves in their 5 year long SSC. We need soldiers who are stronger, taller, faster in THOUSANDS each year.
My grandmother did her schooling and later graduation at Banasthali Vidyapeeth where she learned horse riding,shooting, swimming etc in the 1940s. Vast majority of Indian women were illiterate at the time.
Comparing exceptions with norms is utterly moronic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Please don't waste my time with flawed logic. I have very little patience for SJWs. You can have the most capable military and you can have the most "woke" military. You cannot have both.

The first thing any true SJW like yourself does is refute realities that already are, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Really what you're saying is you have little patience for solutions. All you folks in snowflake generation are too busy bickering about shit that won't be. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To serve in the military or Law Enforcement is indeed a privilege but it is the 'right' of every citizen (eligible) to try and join any of the services and no court of law can deny this right to try. I am just saying knowing the differences that exist already between men & women, one needs to nurture different natural strength areas.

While your grandma might have been illiterate, let not paint everyone with a broad brush of ignorance. I was just reflecting on certain possibilities had my mother's natural talent been utilized in service of the country. Funny how you use similar anecdotal shit to make a point. So again chill.

No one here is asking for women to be sent out into combat in enemy territory but certain realities are already there and that won't change. Many women already work in all services and the point here is if a woman who is willing to serve the country and can meet the standards set (whether the same should apply for men or women is for the services to decide and they need to take the call based on realities in India and not what the US army did or what German Army did or what the Israelis did. You seem to forget we are talking about India here. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Stop comparing shit. Indian realities and problems need Indian solutions.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx So yes they get 6 months off, what is your problem with that? It's not like they out there killing anybody. Managing people within any organization is HR, some people fall sick, some people get injured in attacks, some die, some go on maternity leave. If any organization can't manage it's people with all these realities what good is it?

Lastly, I hope for you you quickly realize in life there are more than 2 solutions to problems. There is no such thing the most capable military, all large organizations are inefficient by default. I'd be happy if we have a good military.
Mod: Post edited. Language again. Don't force the Staff to get frustrated and delete posts altogether. Whose effort would be lost?

 

[Immanuel]

This bullshit propaganda is why western militaries can't win a modern war. We have enough manpower to raise armies for 10 nations on this planet and nobody would even miss so many men out of the workforce.

Take a dose of hard hitting reality my friend. Here are some choice examples of 'gender equality' in military bullcrap.

Green Berets:

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/15/5708...ets-accused-from-within-of-lowering-standards

US Army

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ving-waivers-marijuana-hit-targets/750844001/

US Marines

https://www.military.com/daily-news...-major-obstacle-female-infantry-officers.html

US Army Ranger School

https://thenewsrep.com/48753/proof-...or-females-entering-the-75th-ranger-regiment/

https://people.com/celebrity/female-rangers-were-given-special-treatment-sources-say/

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Did I say that Women be used in SF units or SOF or another specialty unit? No. Does India have a US Marines like force? Are there lower standards for women who join the army now? Not that I know of or can be proven with some evidence.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Does the IA take pot heads into it's ranks or has even considered opening up SF roles for women?

So what BS comparison are you making here? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

And you expect any of us to take what you say seriously when you can't read or reply within context of what was said?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

[vampyrbladez]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Text culled xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
.

Those were figures for all forces. Even US Army was on the list.

Your argument holds no water now and has been decisively routed.

 

[Immanuel]

Those were figures for all forces. Even US Army was on the list.

Your argument holds no water now and has been decisively routed.

Do you have figures for India? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[vampyrbladez]

Do you have figures for India? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Women haven't been inducted in combat roles in India yet. But because our training standards are based on British ones whose parentage is shared by US, UK, AUS, CAN and all other commonwealth countries, what passes for one can affect another.

UK Army:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...ss-standards-to-allow-more-women-to-join.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...ss-standards-to-allow-more-women-to-join.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-sure-female-soldiers-qualify-line-duty.html

 

[vampyrbladez]

if you can, post evidence and relevant shit about India

So women in US have superior genes and we are untermensch? What nonsense! Standards and experience may vary moderately but some universal truths remain. Going by case by case study, similar if not worse outcomes will prevail owing to logistical , cultural, nutritional, infrastructural, strategic demands.

 

[Immanuel]

So women in US have superior genes and we are untermensch? What nonsense! Standards and experience may vary moderately but some universal truths remain. Going by case by case study, similar if not worse outcomes will prevail owing to logistical , cultural, nutritional, infrastructural, strategic demands.

So Mr. Universal truths, again I say to you and think before your respond. Show me data from India, good, bad, ugly, don't really care and discuss on that. Outcomes are not for us to address and negative outcomes haven't changed much in terms of policy in those respective countries. If India runs the experiment and data proves that women are just ineffective in real frontline combat situations, then it will curb the SJWs since facts are the best way to counter them. Even then, the military cannot do much at the point but to find niches roles where women can play their part well.

Somethings once changed are very difficult to go back to. Once they decided to let women in, that was already a point of no return for that conversation. Politics and culture of the day won't allow it. Regardless of what any one of us thinks.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Somethings once changed are very difficult to go back to. Once they decided to let women in, that was already a point of no return for that conversation. Politics and culture of the day won't allow it. Regardless of what any one of us thinks.

If this kind of stupidity happens, it will be like letting out a genie out of bottle. Saying outright no will anger public into agitation so what they do is stall.

You cannot play around with critical national security for the sake of 5 - 10 feminazis. Assuming men and women in India are same as that of other countries biologically, it will be a disaster which even you know. There is ample data but feminazis are like socialists. They will keep harping useless arguments for eternity.

Here is "women power" in BSF.

At Jammu border, BSF women soldiers are back to barracks in wake of firing from Pakistan

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india...ke-of-firing-from-pakistan-1156269-2018-01-29

 

[Immanuel]

If this kind of stupidity happens, it will be like letting out a genie out of bottle. Saying outright no will anger public into agitation so what they do is stall.

You cannot play around with critical national security for the sake of 5 - 10 feminazis. Assuming men and women in India are same as that of other countries biologically, it will be a disaster which even you know. There is ample data but feminazis are like socialists. They will keep harping useless arguments for eternity.

Here is "women power" in BSF.

At Jammu border, BSF women soldiers are back to barracks in wake of firing from Pakistan

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india...ke-of-firing-from-pakistan-1156269-2018-01-29

I doubt it's 5-10 feminazis alone, they have a wide set of tools including the liberal media and very powerful and corrupt people. Vote banks politics also means a reversal of such things are simply not possible. Sadly in a democracy even functional retards have a voice.

I was reading this article the other day and indeed several lessons in here for BSF. First no mix units, have all female units with platoon strength at the very least in cross fire times, try all female units at several active posts which come under frequent fire, let's see how they handle themselves. Keep a few men in the area to make sure there is no slip up. This should solve the problem a bit. None of the have actually seen real combat, it's time they get a taste.

BSF is falling victim to being a bit soft here, correct the approach, let's see if the ones already in active duty can actually handle themselves. This also means, those women also face risk of death. It's far easier to dissuade women from joining the real combat roles when they know risks of death, injury, casualty are as real as they for men. And most of the heavy exchanges lately end with several dead and many posts destroyed on their side while a few dead or injured on our side.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I doubt it's 5-10 feminazis alone, they have a wide set of tools including the liberal media and very powerful and corrupt people. Vote banks politics also means a reversal of such things are simply not possible. Sadly in a democracy even functional retards have a voice.

I was reading this article the other day and indeed several lessons in here for BSF. First no mix units, have all female units with platoon strength at the very least in cross fire times, try all female units at several active posts which come under frequent fire, let's see how they handle themselves. Keep a few men in the area to make sure there is no slip up. This should solve the problem a bit. None of the have actually seen real combat, it's time they get a taste.

BSF is falling victim to being a bit soft here, correct the approach, let's see if the ones already in active duty can actually handle themselves. This also means, those women also face risk of death. It's far easier to dissuade women from joining the real combat roles when they know risks of death, injury, casualty are as real as they for men. And most of the heavy exchanges lately end with several dead and many posts destroyed on their side while a few dead or injured on our side.

Military experiments are for monkeys. We can do without self inflicted wounds like the West. BTW this is how women handle themselves under fire:

Fleeing female IDF soldiers spark criticism of ‘mixed units’

By David Isaac, World Israel News

Five female IDF soldiers forgotten by their commanders during a training exercise were harrassed by a group of Palestinian pursuers and proved unable to defend themselves even though they were armed with machine guns.

The event, which happened last week according to Israel’s state-owned TV Channel 11 as well as Israel’s Channel 12, raised concerns about the Israel Defense Forces experimentation with “mixed units,” a term Israel’s military uses to refer to combat units combining both men and women.

Maj. (res.) Haim Teitelboim, head of the group “Brothers in Arms,” which opposes women in combat roles, said, “This grave incident joins other operational failures involving mixed units that have happened recently.”

“There are a variety of roles in which female soldiers do an excellent job, but not in combat. The IDF is not a social organization. It’s the security for all of us. The battalions involved should be urgently closed,” he said.


According to reports, the five girls were forgotten in a grove in the Jordan Valley during a night exercise. The girls didn’t feel well and their commander told them to rest and wait, but then forgot to collect them. They spent about three hours in the area at night without any means of communication.

They made their way to the road where Palestinians in two vehicles chased them for about 20 minutes.

The girls fled and hid behind trees, begging their pursuers to stop, but to no avail. The Arabs stole three of their helmets. Although the soldiers possessed automatic weapons, they were unable to remove the plastic safety flags inserted into them to prevent accidental discharge.

Finally, one of the female soldiers managed to remove the flag and pointed her weapon at the Arabs, who then fled with the helmets.

The army said it rebuked the commanding officers and the female soldiers involved in the incident for not behaving in a manner expected of IDF soldiers. The army says the incident would be investigated.

An army source also said, “It wasn’t indicated to the female soldiers how to remove the flags and to insert a magazine” into their weapons. This, despite the fact that the Army stated in its reprimand that the girls were near the end of their training course.

https://worldisraelnews.com/fleeing-female-idf-soldiers-raise-criticisms-of-mixed-units/

 

[Immanuel]

Military experiments are for monkeys. We can do without self inflicted wounds like the West. BTW this is how women handle themselves under fire:

Fleeing female IDF soldiers spark criticism of ‘mixed units’

By David Isaac, World Israel News

Five female IDF soldiers forgotten by their commanders during a training exercise were harrassed by a group of Palestinian pursuers and proved unable to defend themselves even though they were armed with machine guns.

The event, which happened last week according to Israel’s state-owned TV Channel 11 as well as Israel’s Channel 12, raised concerns about the Israel Defense Forces experimentation with “mixed units,” a term Israel’s military uses to refer to combat units combining both men and women.

Maj. (res.) Haim Teitelboim, head of the group “Brothers in Arms,” which opposes women in combat roles, said, “This grave incident joins other operational failures involving mixed units that have happened recently.”

“There are a variety of roles in which female soldiers do an excellent job, but not in combat. The IDF is not a social organization. It’s the security for all of us. The battalions involved should be urgently closed,” he said.


According to reports, the five girls were forgotten in a grove in the Jordan Valley during a night exercise. The girls didn’t feel well and their commander told them to rest and wait, but then forgot to collect them. They spent about three hours in the area at night without any means of communication.

They made their way to the road where Palestinians in two vehicles chased them for about 20 minutes.

The girls fled and hid behind trees, begging their pursuers to stop, but to no avail. The Arabs stole three of their helmets. Although the soldiers possessed automatic weapons, they were unable to remove the plastic safety flags inserted into them to prevent accidental discharge.

Finally, one of the female soldiers managed to remove the flag and pointed her weapon at the Arabs, who then fled with the helmets.

The army said it rebuked the commanding officers and the female soldiers involved in the incident for not behaving in a manner expected of IDF soldiers. The army says the incident would be investigated.

An army source also said, “It wasn’t indicated to the female soldiers how to remove the flags and to insert a magazine” into their weapons. This, despite the fact that the Army stated in its reprimand that the girls were near the end of their training course.

https://worldisraelnews.com/fleeing-female-idf-soldiers-raise-criticisms-of-mixed-units/

Experiments are inevitable, there is no rule book for somethings.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Experiments are inevitable, there is no rule book for somethings.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx We have 2 powerful military neighbors who don't like us and are allied. Post Cold War, we can't rely on anyone - Russia, USA, EU, etc.

If we run out of men to throw at the enemy (extremely unlikely) during war we will throw women at them. We'll use them like a thousand shattered jewels like in Japan.

 

[Virendra]

It is painful to see that experienced members engage in personal attacks and poor language, amidst reasonable arguments.
Forums are an avenue of sharing credible information, ideas & opinions; not of venting off frustration.
Please avoid provoking each other into bringing their worst sides out.
That will help the staff save some time as well.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Immanuel]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/arm...commission-for-women-officers-pm-modi-1900913

In May, the central government told the Supreme Court that the armed forces are considering a series of measures to usher in a more "liberal regime" to grant permanent commission to women officers and open new streams of induction for them.

The Defence Ministry said it required six months to formulate modalities and enforce the changes and alterations in the three forces.

"All three wings of the armed forces and the Ministry of Defence are actively considering the issue of parity between male and female officers in securing permanent commission in the armed forces," the ministry said.


What does this tell you guys? Rants about getting women out of military don't work, the armed forces and the Govt. are heading in a different direction. Please can some one tell me how whining about how useless they are in combat helps here. It's a waste of server space & time.

 

[vampyrbladez]

While there are women in the military now, I would rather they take part in some serious border defense roles especially during flare ups. It is pointless to throw an inexperienced force like shattered jewels when a two front conflict pushes all services to overdrive. Baptism by heavy fire is an important thing to make a real soldier.

We have more military aged men than populations of most EU countries put together. To prove a stupid point, we cannot risk capture or death of women knowing that by sheer potential, women fall short.

Men are expendable, numerous and are more risk friendly. A woman captured, raped and her video shared by WhatsApp groups in India during war will demoralize and frustrate war effort.

Common sense and rationality trump pragmatism.

 

[vampyrbladez]

So please tell me what grand plan do you have to get the women out of the military and please show me which political party or any one in the military who has the balls to make it a reality. You're wasting time in discussions that won't change anything on the ground. Simply repeating talking points won't change anything dude. None of us here matter in terms grand decisions made in the country. Name me one high ranking official who has the authority, charm & influence to make this change and will see it through.

PM Modi and NSA Doval have the final say on this. Going by what service chiefs are saying PC culture and feminazis will be unwelcome in the military.

Shattered jewel suicide seems ideal for feminazis. Feminazis will be removed along with the enemy. Two birds with one stone.

 

[Immanuel]

PM Modi and NSA Doval have the final say on this. Going by what service chiefs are saying PC culture and feminazis will be unwelcome in the military.

Shattered jewel suicide seems ideal for feminazis. Feminazis will be removed along with the enemy. Two birds with one stone.

Modi or Doval have little say once the momentum of a war begins, the war is executed by commanders on the field and the last thing they need is for higher command to be dicking in around with restrictive orders. As said before either we continue to keep women in a cosmetic sense or actually put them to good use, knowing the potential pitfalls, trying the best to avoid them. I doubt PC culture or feminazis were ever welcome in the military anyways.

Besides, feminazis and SJWs are usually the ones bickering and not the ones serving, those who actually try to go into the military are usually there because of love & respect for the country or they think they are fit and feel like they have something to prove or offer.