Indian Weapons asking for Reservation

p2prada

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u r talking abt brahmos if yes do share a source a while bac i couldnt proove it to sm1
Indian source.
BATL set to make BrahMos engines - The Hindu
Given its performance, we have decided to ask it to make the entire BrahMos missile, including the nose cap, the whole of F3 [the missile section comprising airframe and fuel tank] and the ramjet engine. In effect, it will be the complete missile except the composite part and warhead. Anyway, the BATL is already making some critical airframe components of the missile such as the front docking unit and the shutter assembly," BrahMos Chief Executive Officer A. Sivathanu Pillai told The Hindu at an interaction in New Delhi last week.

At present, the BrahMos engines are produced at Orenburg in Russia. Besides the BATL, one more Indian company would be qualified to make the missile's engines, Mr. Pillai added.
Russian source.
Indian-Russian Brahmos venture to produce missile engines in India | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti

Note that this is news from 3 years ago.
 

p2prada

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your projection and my estimate has a difference of 1 year ...
I merely explained why I think production will end by 2022 or at max 2023.

Yes avionics are better and the role I am talking about of interceptor can be performed by it perfectly...
If more orders of tejas are there another line has to be set up which will be as per todays standards international which will be helpful for amca...
Rafale is far better at interception than LCA is. Rafale is also capable of supercruise at mach 1.4 with 6 missiles.

Yes one thing must be cost effective if I hve to choose between rafale and Sukhoi MKi I will go with su... u can call for upgraded super su...
Even with upgraded MKI, Rafale is cheaper because most of the development has already been done while we have to pay for MKI's further development.

even after 3 years deals is stand still and what hapened todays create a doubt if India will go for it as 34000 crore out of 94000 crore has been already spent.... and going interenet info which does vary rafale will be close to 1.5 lakh crore.... how are we gonna pay for it all....
Don't worry about such silly news pieces. We don't know how the payment terms are in the contract. We don't know anything about the contract, so all the characters speculating stuff that nobody knows is simply stupid.

The same with FGFA. We don't know how far the contract has progressed.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I never said the underline part, But said it is not disclosed, FGFA is India`s product, As of now PAK-FA is completely Russian product not Indian ..

How are you saying nothing has been spent if that would have been the case IAF wouldnt havee been complaining about the product
 

Pulkit

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yes FGFA is an Indian Product derieved from the todays Russian product ...
the un disclosed part a design life of an aircraft is 10 years FGFA has to be ready for IOC FOC by 2018 which means another 4 years wich simply tells half of the design life cycle has passed which means the inititla investment has been already made....

PAK-FA as per the international observers is kept above f35 at various instances tough F22 tops it all....

And world know that Indian version has always been better.....
I never said the underline part, But said it is not disclosed, FGFA is India`s product, As of now PAK-FA is completely Russian product not Indian ..
 

Pulkit

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I thought you said cost and money are not a factor... the role u have assigned for rafale will be done by Sukhoi only .....


Su-30 is more expensive to fly than Rafale. Rafale has a range of 3800 Km+ with 9.6 tonnes of fuel MKI has a range of 3000 Km with 9.6 tonnes of fuel. So there is fuel saved. And other aspects of MKI is also more expensive in terms of maintenance. MKI's airframe needs more maintenance because it has a life of only 4000 hours while Rafale has 8000 hours. Then, AL-31 has engine life of just 2000 hours versus 7000-8000 hours on M88-2. We just placed an order for another 970 engines for MKI because of its low service life. That won't be necessary with Rafale.

Technically, MKI is the best option if it were cheaper, but it is not. We can actually afford a 300 MKI fleet with a 200 Rafale fleet instead of a 500 MKI fleet. It's expensive because MKI is from the same era as LCA is. It was different if MKI was actually the Su-35 with better maintenance and service life. With Rafale, we get a new jet, we get new technologies, new production techniques, a new strategic partner, new weapons, a more focused development partner with a long lasting relationship and all this with the lifecycle costs being cheaper than MKI.

MKI is better than Rafale in some parameters like larger radar which gives it better air to air capability. So, it is more useful as an air dominance platform. If we end up using the 270 MKI for other duties, then LCA will be expected to fight Chinese Flankers. That would put IAF at a severe disadvantage. Instead if we can use most of the MKIs for OCA (Offensive Counter Air), then the Rafales can perform other duties without having to bother the MKI fleet (like how 4 Rafales can carry a large package and also escort themselves). If we use LCA, then the MKI must perform all of its own duties, all of what should have been Rafale's duties and also protect the LCA at the same time, thereby rendering LCA useless.

Example:


Replace the Flankers with Rafale and Gripen with LCA. This gives you an idea about LCA versus MCA or HCA. This is a major reason why nobody wants an LCA. IAF is just stuck with one because it is our own development. If LCA wasn't our aircraft, IAF wouldn't even have looked at it.
 

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Ray

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Reservation in any sector only encourages mediocrity.

Competition encourages excellence.

That is why with FDI in defence being raised, HAL is getting sidelined since Indian companies are tying up with foreign established aircraft manufacturers to produced quality aircraft.

Arun Jaitley approves defence deals worth Rs 34,260 crore; woos private sector for aircraft production
The finance and defense minister Arun Jaitley approved defense deals worth Rs 34,260 crore in a single strike, reported the New Indian Express. The Defence Acquisition Council approved the tendering and eventual purchase of military equipments for all three services. However the major focus could be on the navy and coastal guard equipment and devices.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...rivate-sector-for-aircraft-production-2003647
 

Pulkit

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yes true competition helps in development of better products...
but it is used byour defence to procure foreign weapons on the name of quality...

Our defense forces trial system is full prooof if not one of the longest trial system in the world....
After such intense trials if ... If a product is cleared it should not face competition or just dont clear it take more time....

Regarding our Defense miniter ... His moves can be appreciated but there is a long way to go...

There are still various field in all the three section which needs upliftment...

Encouraging Private sector can be oneof it but we have to wait and see how it responds to this opportitunity and which foreign OEM will join hands with which company from Indian Private sector ...(For IAF aircrafts)

HAL monopoly had to be challenged ... and giving private resources resources to do that is a very good move....


Reservation in any sector only encourages mediocrity.

Competition encourages excellence.

That is why with FDI in defence being raised, HAL is getting sidelined since Indian companies are tying up with foreign established aircraft manufacturers to produced quality aircraft.
 

Ray

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yes true competition helps in development of better products...
but it is used byour defence to procure foreign weapons on the name of quality...

Our defense forces trial system is full prooof if not one of the longest trial system in the world....
After such intense trials if ... If a product is cleared it should not face competition or just dont clear it take more time....

Regarding our Defense miniter ... His moves can be appreciated but there is a long way to go...

There are still various field in all the three section which needs upliftment...

Encouraging Private sector can be oneof it but we have to wait and see how it responds to this opportitunity and which foreign OEM will join hands with which company from Indian Private sector ...(For IAF aircrafts)

HAL monopoly had to be challenged ... and giving private resources resources to do that is a very good move....
It is misconception that Defence prefers foreign weapons and weapons platform.

It merely requires what suits its needs and which have been time or combat tested. The Price Negotiation Committee composed of bureaucrats and politicians dovetails the price and foreign policy necessities. Therefore, it is basically a compromise on many angles.

Indian Army User Trials and alongside the Technical Trials are lengthy because they are tried in various terrain and climatic conditions the weapon or weapon platform is to operate. Indian Army requires a versatile equipment that can operated under all conditions, terrain and climatic, in which the IA operates as also for the necessity of switching equipment from one set of conditions to another if the requirement in combat arises. The procedure cannot be fast tracked without negative ramifications.

Even when a product is cleared, the competitors to include the DRDO brings in new claims.

The Govt, since they are the last word and have to take the decision. This flummoxes the Govt lest they are accused of favouritism or face a bribe scam. So, no decision is taken for a long time and the price escalates. This is thus a vicious cycle.

As I see it the bogey of national secrets being compromised if FDI in defence is brought in, as it was being said a few months ago, (was it that bucktooth Anand Sharma?) is bogus. When we buy foreign weapons and weapon platforms and systems, isn't out national secrets, whatever that is meant, compromised?

At least, now with Indian companies, which will have the major share and the collaborating foreign company less, the control of the manufacture will remain in Indian hands. And competition will ensure realistic prices and better quality. Indian companies could also export as per the Govt policy when formulated. It will help our economy as also foreign relations.

In the bargain, this competitiveness will also shake our DRDO and OFB, HAL out of its bureaucratic slumber and make it efficient and accountable for its existence, instead of bumbling around in a monopolistic mode.
 

Pulkit

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In short sir some one has to take responsibility no one should be allowed to escape accountability has to made...
In trials all the checks are done and once its meets all the requirements it is cleared for induction ... Once cleared thats should be a full stop at everything no competition nothing induct that product for use...
Once in use you can report modifications upgradation for better ment of that product...
Example once INSAS was developed it was inducted but nothing happened to modify it upgrade improve it... Then one day Army went to DRDo for new weapon DRDO said they need time ... DRDO said not enough time... Army said you should have been prepared the DRDO said you must have told your requirements in time....

I am not against FDI at all....till its under control of Indian admin its ok...


This way even ur beaurocrats will have no other option....Along with defense forces...

If the product fails then DRDO will be the sole body to be blamed..Hence accountability...

when there will be only one option that too Indian Beaurocrats will not be allowed to delay procurements as everything will be under there control and on theer terms ... NOt a mess they create while inducting from foreign ..

Lobbies will end..

Defence prefers foreign weapons which is a a truth I believe in ... they have been made to trust in foreign more than Indian..
they can induct various foreign weapon with initial testing like in case of one of the missile system they had to test it till 40 degree but they did till 36degree and later it started failing....

Tanks is also one of the example...

will not say same with Tejas as I still hope Rafale deal will be cut short and Tejas will be given imp it deserve in IAF even if not MK1 but MK2...

Instead of paying in dollars its any day better to pay in rupees even if a little extra....


Defense Forces DPSUs MOD are all to be blamed no one can play victim in this... tehy have to learn to take responsibility

It is misconception that Defence prefers foreign weapons and weapons platform.

It merely requires what suits its needs and which have been time or combat tested. The Price Negotiation Committee composed of bureaucrats and politicians dovetails the price and foreign policy necessities. Therefore, it is basically a compromise on many angles.

Indian Army User Trials and alongside the Technical Trials are lengthy because they are tried in various terrain and climatic conditions the weapon or weapon platform is to operate. Indian Army requires a versatile equipment that can operated under all conditions, terrain and climatic, in which the IA operates as also for the necessity of switching equipment from one set of conditions to another if the requirement in combat arises. The procedure cannot be fast tracked without negative ramifications.

Even when a product is cleared, the competitors to include the DRDO brings in new claims.

The Govt, since they are the last word and have to take the decision. This flummoxes the Govt lest they are accused of favouritism or face a bribe scam. So, no decision is taken for a long time and the price escalates. This is thus a vicious cycle.

As I see it the bogey of national secrets being compromised if FDI in defence is brought in, as it was being said a few months ago, (was it that bucktooth Anand Sharma?) is bogus. When we buy foreign weapons and weapon platforms and systems, isn't out national secrets, whatever that is meant, compromised?

At least, now with Indian companies, which will have the major share and the collaborating foreign company less, the control of the manufacture will remain in Indian hands. And competition will ensure realistic prices and better quality. Indian companies could also export as per the Govt policy when formulated. It will help our economy as also foreign relations.

In the bargain, this competitiveness will also shake our DRDO and OFB, HAL out of its bureaucratic slumber and make it efficient and accountable for its existence, instead of bumbling around in a monopolistic mode.
 

Ray

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Defense Forces DPSUs MOD are all to be blamed no one can play victim in this... tehy have to learn to take responsibility
I go to the market to buy olive oil for cooking a Mediterranean meal and they give me mustard oil oil and you want me to take mustard oil since that is available.

I assure you that mustard oil will not go with a Mediterranean meal and you want me to take the blame!
 

p2prada

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I thought you said cost and money are not a factor... the role u have assigned for rafale will be done by Sukhoi only .....
The cost and money factor is beyond a certain capability. There are capabilities Rafale offers that LCA cannot offer. But the capabilities Rafale offers are very similar to what MKI already offers.

My options are a $100 gun (LCA) that can shoot up to 100m, a $300 gun (Rafale) that can shoot up to 300m and a $400 gun (MKI) that can shoot up to 400m. So, when I am talking about costs matter, I am talking about the needless expense of using a $400 gun to shoot at a target at 200m which the $300 gun can also handle it. And when I say cost doesn't matter, I am saying why waste money on the $100 gun when the $300 gun does everything the $100 gun can and more while also reducing the unnecessary expense of using more $400 guns.

So, costs don't matter when it comes to acquiring capability. But when you have two systems that offer similar capabilities, then the cheaper one is the best option for a number of missions. LCA is an aircraft that cannot fight in enemy territory for extended periods, it doesn't have the range or the armament to do that. When the army is building a strike corps against China, it becomes important for the IAF to keep up so it can support the strike corps inside China. LCA cannot do that.

The point is the Chinese are going to have a very hard time fighting the MKI Rafale combo, than a MKI LCA combo. This much is obvious. So buying LCA just because it is ADA's design is quite silly. And luckily, IAF is not doing it.

Another point with people's understanding is they wrongly assume indigenous weapons to be Indian designed weapons. That isn't correct. The point of indigenous weapons is the entire weapon system is made in India. That's indigenous. That's why a Russian designed FGFA, an Israeli designed radar or French designed Maitri, but fully made in India is of more significance than an Indian designed LCA which uses imported parts. The point of indigenous is to make it sanction-proof while creating jobs in India and LCA actually goes against that.
 

Pulkit

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The cost and money factor is beyond a certain capability. There are capabilities Rafale offers that LCA cannot offer. But the capabilities Rafale offers are very similar to what MKI already offers.

My options are a $100 gun (LCA) that can shoot up to 100m, a $300 gun (Rafale) that can shoot up to 300m and a $400 gun (MKI) that can shoot up to 400m. So, when I am talking about costs matter, I am talking about the needless expense of using a $400 gun to shoot at a target at 200m which the $300 gun can also handle it. And when I say cost doesn't matter, I am saying why waste money on the $100 gun when the $300 gun does everything the $100 gun can and more while also reducing the unnecessary expense of using more $400 guns.

So, costs don't matter when it comes to acquiring capability. But when you have two systems that offer similar capabilities, then the cheaper one is the best option for a number of missions. LCA is an aircraft that cannot fight in enemy territory for extended periods, it doesn't have the range or the armament to do that. When the army is building a strike corps against China, it becomes important for the IAF to keep up so it can support the strike corps inside China. LCA cannot do that.

The point is the Chinese are going to have a very hard time fighting the MKI Rafale combo, than a MKI LCA combo. This much is obvious. So buying LCA just because it is ADA's design is quite silly. And luckily, IAF is not doing it.

Another point with people's understanding is they wrongly assume indigenous weapons to be Indian designed weapons. That isn't correct. The point of indigenous weapons is the entire weapon system is made in India. That's indigenous. That's why a Russian designed FGFA, an Israeli designed radar or French designed Maitri, but fully made in India is of more significance than an Indian designed LCA which uses imported parts. The point of indigenous is to make it sanction-proof while creating jobs in India and LCA actually goes against that.
Now that is your believe and we can yet not say thats a fact...
even with that for little extra superiority I should go for MKI which is already manufactured in my country and there will not be much delay in production of it+I dont need to set up an entirely new production line and cost of it will also be added...+ no one knows how much TOT is gonna happen so putting all this amount into it is not wise...
I again say If they need rafale desperately then they can have but the price is toooooooo high....


You are not gonna debate based on what i think neither I am gonna do that...
So
saying this for sake of having a discussion...

No Tejas ...

Now what will be better

Rafale+Sukhoi

Or

Sukhoi + Sukhoi
???

Money does not matter just as you said keeping that in mind.....


with the money we are gonna put in Rafale we can even have

Sukhoi+Sukhoi+Tejas...
and that too without worrying about the TOT which si yet not transferred...


indigenous or TOT is not a issue as tejas is 80% made in India and by in a few coming years we will have it close to 90% once we get our own engine...which will be also a issue for fututre Aircrafts self developed by India....
 

Pulkit

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I go to the market to buy olive oil for cooking a Mediterranean meal and they give me mustard oil oil and you want me to take mustard oil since that is available.

I assure you that mustard oil will not go with a Mediterranean meal and you want me to take the blame!
When he gave you an option to have mustard oil instead of Olive oil which you didnt want and you say yes you approve of it .
In that case yes I want you to take blame...
If you dont want anything just say NO once agreed you will be sharing the blame....
 

p2prada

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Now that is your believe and we can yet not say thats a fact...
Which aspect. Your posts are vague without referring to the actual point I made.

even with that for little extra superiority I should go for MKI which is already manufactured in my country and there will not be much delay in production of it+I dont need to set up an entirely new production line and cost of it will also be added...+ no one knows how much TOT is gonna happen so putting all this amount into it is not wise...
Rafale will come with all the ToT required to manufacture the jet in India indigenously. OTOH, we don't need all of the source codes.

I again say If they need rafale desperately then they can have but the price is toooooooo high....
It isn't. Only early procurement costs are high, and capabilitywise dirt cheap compared to LCA. It is all about having certain capability at a cost or lose capability for no reason.

Sukhoi+Sukhoi+Tejas...
It is cheaper to have Sukhoi+Rafale+Tejas. The ratio is 3:2:1 currently. There is a possibility of 3:2:2 but it is extremely unlikely because IAF will have to force MoD to increase squadron strength. It is possible to have a very large number of FGFA/AMCA/LCA if squadron strength is increased to 50 or even 60. But IAF may prioritize Rafale/FGFA over LCA, especially by then the first two LCA squadrons could have moved into OCU units. IAF had sent a request to increase the sanctioned strength from 39.5 to 45 in 2011 and, as already posted, MoD agreed only to 42 squadrons. I guess the increase in IN's standard squadron strength affected IAF's strength.

If those 4.5 extra squadrons are packed with LCA, then that number would increase to 90 aircraft more. That's 213 LCA - 40 Mk1. But to manufacture 173 LCA Mk2 by 2022, HAL will need to deliver 35 LCAs a year from 2017 to 2022. That's completely unrealistic. And HAL will also have to deliver the navy's order of 45. The current planned capacity is expected to be 15-16/year, so the planned order of 178 alone should take 12 years. To date not even one has been delivered and if delivery starts from this year end, it could take up to 2026-28 just to deliver the current minimum orders. Anything beyond that would be meaningless because we will be manufacturing FGFA and AMCA by then, and Rafale production would be complete. It would be better to sell LCA to the export market beyond the 178 planned. Also, note that this includes not even one day of delay from today onwards. So, is that realistic? Every year LCA is delayed from now on, the year longer it will take and there could eventually be cuts in the orders.

As of today there are orders only for 40 Mk1-IAF and 8 Mk1-IN. Mk2 orders are subject to the progress on flight tests of Mk2. So a bird in hand (Rafale) is worth more than half a bird in the bush.

and that too without worrying about the TOT which si yet not transferred...
ToT should take at least 5 or 6 years. That's how long they will take to learn. It won't be transferred overnight. Did you finish your degree in one day or did you take 3 or 4 years? Now imagine if I give you 50,000 to 100,000 pages in technical documentation.

indigenous or TOT is not a issue as tejas is 80% made in India and by in a few coming years we will have it close to 90% once we get our own engine...which will be also a issue for fututre Aircrafts self developed by India....
It doesn't matter as long as the engine is imported. It is not sanction-proof. In case of Rafale and MKI, engines are made in India. In case of Rafale, most of it will be made in India. Nearly 100%. I have a feeling we will have to buy ejection seats from the British. Regardless, the principle driver behind the MRCA deal is in getting a sanction-proof aircraft.

Our own engine won't be added on LCA. MoD canceled the offer by GTRE to re-engine the LCA when it is ready back in Jan 2013. ADA doesn't want a new engine either way.
 

p2prada

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When he gave you an option to have mustard oil instead of Olive oil which you didnt want and you say yes you approve of it .
In that case yes I want you to take blame...
If you dont want anything just say NO once agreed you will be sharing the blame....
You didn't get the point he made.
 

Pulkit

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Xplain me


You go to a shop to buy BMW but you dont have enuf money so sales man tells you easy loan...
You take it without checking ur pockets..

After few days you cannot use it as no money for fuel, cant even pay the bills and installments even ...

Whom will you curse urself and that sales man... but thats his duty to tell you a alternative way its upto you to judge if its good for you or not... Once bought there is nothing you can do...

So blame yourself...

Same once a product is cleared its cleared no turning bac on it...

Its like an arrow once shot its gone...you have to stick to it...

heared a saying
"Ab pachtaye hot kya jab chidiya chug gayi khet"

Same thing is valid here we have to do job on time and accurately with best decision and option....
no lingering of any sort...

You didn't get the point he made.
 

Pulkit

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My post is vague just like urs....
Govt has never disclosed the conditions of TOT how do you know that?Are you in govt?
as money was no issue why you ignored Sukhoi+Sukhoi condition?
TOT is not gonna happen in one day or over night true and how much is absorbed cannot be calculated even....

About LCA its one of the best in its class....
yes Engine will be foreign thats a drawback but we the issue will not come till war...
and sanction have been imposed on us even in past but that didnt stop us from buying foreign weapons why should it bother us in this case....



Which aspect. Your posts are vague without referring to the actual point I made.



Rafale will come with all the ToT required to manufacture the jet in India indigenously. OTOH, we don't need all of the source codes.



It isn't. Only early procurement costs are high, and capabilitywise dirt cheap compared to LCA. It is all about having certain capability at a cost or lose capability for no reason.



It is cheaper to have Sukhoi+Rafale+Tejas. The ratio is 3:2:1 currently. There is a possibility of 3:2:2 but it is extremely unlikely because IAF will have to force MoD to increase squadron strength. It is possible to have a very large number of FGFA/AMCA/LCA if squadron strength is increased to 50 or even 60. But IAF may prioritize Rafale/FGFA over LCA, especially by then the first two LCA squadrons could have moved into OCU units. IAF had sent a request to increase the sanctioned strength from 39.5 to 45 in 2011 and, as already posted, MoD agreed only to 42 squadrons. I guess the increase in IN's standard squadron strength affected IAF's strength.

If those 4.5 extra squadrons are packed with LCA, then that number would increase to 90 aircraft more. That's 213 LCA - 40 Mk1. But to manufacture 173 LCA Mk2 by 2022, HAL will need to deliver 35 LCAs a year from 2017 to 2022. That's completely unrealistic. And HAL will also have to deliver the navy's order of 45. The current planned capacity is expected to be 15-16/year, so the planned order of 178 alone should take 12 years. To date not even one has been delivered and if delivery starts from this year end, it could take up to 2026-28 just to deliver the current minimum orders. Anything beyond that would be meaningless because we will be manufacturing FGFA and AMCA by then, and Rafale production would be complete. It would be better to sell LCA to the export market beyond the 178 planned. Also, note that this includes not even one day of delay from today onwards. So, is that realistic? Every year LCA is delayed from now on, the year longer it will take and there could eventually be cuts in the orders.

As of today there are orders only for 40 Mk1-IAF and 8 Mk1-IN. Mk2 orders are subject to the progress on flight tests of Mk2. So a bird in hand (Rafale) is worth more than half a bird in the bush.



ToT should take at least 5 or 6 years. That's how long they will take to learn. It won't be transferred overnight. Did you finish your degree in one day or did you take 3 or 4 years? Now imagine if I give you 50,000 to 100,000 pages in technical documentation.



It doesn't matter as long as the engine is imported. It is not sanction-proof. In case of Rafale and MKI, engines are made in India. In case of Rafale, most of it will be made in India. Nearly 100%. I have a feeling we will have to buy ejection seats from the British. Regardless, the principle driver behind the MRCA deal is in getting a sanction-proof aircraft.

Our own engine won't be added on LCA. MoD canceled the offer by GTRE to re-engine the LCA when it is ready back in Jan 2013. ADA doesn't want a new engine either way.
 

p2prada

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You go to a shop to buy BMW but you dont have enuf money so sales man tells you easy loan...
You take it without checking ur pockets..

After few days you cannot use it as no money for fuel, cant even pay the bills and installments even ...

Whom will you curse urself and that sales man... but thats his duty to tell you a alternative way its upto you to judge if its good for you or not... Once bought there is nothing you can do...

So blame yourself...

Same once a product is cleared its cleared no turning bac on it...

Its like an arrow once shot its gone...you have to stick to it...

heared a saying
"Ab pachtaye hot kya jab chidiya chug gayi khet"

Same thing is valid here we have to do job on time and accurately with best decision and option....
no lingering of any sort...
Strawman arguments. We are not in that condition. We can buy the BMW and then we can buy the whole company after that, we have that much money right now. So we are going to use all of that.

We have enough money to buy all 189 Rafales and then we have enough money to buy all 123 LCAs and also pay for FGFA/AMCA R&D and then buy even those the next decade. In the meantime we will spend billions to upgrade both the LCA and Rafale after FGFA and AMCA are procured in good numbers and then initiate the MLU process for FGFA adn AMCA.
 

Pulkit

Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs"
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How come my argument is Strawman and urs is not... funny...

We have so much of money I never knew that...
Actually do you know how much money we have..???

Rafale costs about 120000 crore in whole and I know we are not gonna pay it in one go..

This year we had 94000 crore.... for all three IA IAF And IN...
so Its not correct but lets say one third to IAF that is 30000 crores.... so how many years do you wanna plan to pay?
Budget will increase but New requirements will also come at same rate...

I am a Strawman but realistic shed some light please.....

Strawman arguments. We are not in that condition. We can buy the BMW and then we can buy the whole company after that, we have that much money right now. So we are going to use all of that.

We have enough money to buy all 189 Rafales and then we have enough money to buy all 123 LCAs and also pay for FGFA/AMCA R&D and then buy even those the next decade. In the meantime we will spend billions to upgrade both the LCA and Rafale after FGFA and AMCA are procured in good numbers and then initiate the MLU process for FGFA adn AMCA.
 

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