Indian students in US radio-tagged; angry govt says remove it Read more: Indian stud

JayATL

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I am not too clear about the case.

If TriValley is an accredited university as per the US Govt, then how is it a bogus university?
I'm not sure I understand the bane of your contention. are you saying that there should be no scam period expected out of any institution in the US? This is a scam prevailed upon what is 99.999% well maintained. we have what close to 2 million Indians in the US studying in fine institutions with no problems? In this case we have what a couple of dozen students by some estimates flagged as fraudulent ?



Any action being taken against Susie Wong or whatever is the name of the lady who runs it?
Yes, she is subject to being indicted criminally and at the very least she is subject to civil case.

It is also extraordinary since the US runs a whole lot of checks, terrorist, illegal immigrant chances, etc before allowing entry into the US. So, how come the US allowed these students in to join a bogus university. If indeed it is bogus university and is accredited one, then the US Govt is at fault.
again , The US is not omnipotent- the check balances in this case worked, but perhaps not at the right speed . How many people get permitted to the US through a Tourist visa? should that person overstay and not got back- do you blame the Visa approval process of not being able to predict every travelers intent 100% accurately and absolve the the person who has overstayed from deportation?

The govt of India is responsible for land it owns and when you have land scams by senior army personnel , should the govt ( that body in charge )be held criminally responsible for not catching it the moment it took place ? That's not how any govt entity in any country works. They can learn from this situation and improve checks and balances but that does not absolve the army personnel from being held criminally liable


I think somehow people are of the belief that accreditation is a 24/7 check , where you have govt agents reading every universities line items and books 24/7 for continued adherence?

Accreditation is very similar to how financial institutions in India or in most parts of the world get licensed. They can submit the right papers, have all the right protocols in place, even follow the law and by laws for a long while and then surreptitiously go off the reservation through some not so legal deals.

Doctors can be good doctors and go off the reservation and do non sanctioned operations - that does not mean the medical board is to be blamed. Maybe they need to implement some additional regulations or checks and balances- but they can't be the one who screwed up for bad intentions of a person.
 
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S.A.T.A

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Nothing personal but what is extremely hypocritical in this situation_ is that we have an obvious flawed poster, in you, preaching about what should and should not be the " Human rights" equation in this case- when you subscribe to Bal Thuggery- making sure only your people ( Maratha) get special rights over every other citizen in the great state of Maharashtra and India and ensure it through violence! - and you are the one to lecture or impart any points on this subject? :D
You are a funny man indeed,i gave you a choice,but if you insist on making a fool of yourself,go ahead be my guest.

Even so- your limited knowledge on this subject is clouding your arguments, by your insistence on not reading up on the subject matter_ due to a mixture of false sense of pride and pure paranoia, and is making you look increasingly like Baghdad bob. My points of contention is based purely on law and not some personal pride of being an American Indian.

Every indication is that said students in custody knew about this being a hustle. I've given examples of it here, where once they landed they went off to finding jobs and fraudulently listing the institution as their place of residence BUT all you do is insist on not reading the ground realities. Like I said you are sounding like the reincarnation of Baghdad Bob! i.e. no facts / no thing- will deter the propaganda of the day.

I have assigned the blame of rogue behavior on both ends and even posted as such in these very threads. But accountability in this case is also on both ends and not just one end, as you have insisted. Rule of law is rule of law- foreign to some ...

I'd wished earlier that you actually read the facts reported in this case to date, instead of being all hat no cattle BUT alas, I suspect the only expectation is to now wait on the Joseph Goebbels of these board to impart his next rendition of ' lets deny the facts and rather play pseudo intellectualism"

P.S. Obama has also warned about false pride and the need to be wary of a wolf in sheep's clothing , professing their love for human rights
There is no indication that the Indian students pursued the Fake university's proposition with a clear knowledge that the institution is a sham university,dodgy nature of the institution perhaps became evident when they landed on hallowed shores of America,Indian students having seen their hard earned rupees defrauded off them,tried to make best of a worst situation.America and Americans treating those Indian students as criminals who are likely to disappear among USA's teeming millions,is borne of long held prejudices against Asian immigrants and not on any legal basis,and as they say old habits die hard.

The only right thing America can do, and i hope every sensible American citizen encourages his /her govt to do so,is to assist the students to continue their education at an alternative 'legal' institution,failing which the students be duly compensated for the loss suffered as a result of this fraud and Psychological trauma visited upon them as a result.
 

Ray

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When a Govt like the US which is so paranoid about illegals and its safety and when it has laws that cacn legally invaded the privacy of its citizens and organisations, there is no reason to believe that the US would not know about the status of its so called universities. The Patriot Act is clear on the issue.

The USA PATRIOT Act (commonly known as the "Patriot Act") is an Act of the U.S. Congress that was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. The Act dramatically reduced restrictions on law enforcement agencies' ability to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury's authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and broadened the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act's expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

The Act has provisions for anti money laundering as also Border Security.

The Congress wanted the primary focus of development of the entry-exit data system and included biometric technology and the development of tamper-resistant documents readable at ports of entry. They also wanted the system to be able to interface with existing law enforcement databases. The Attorney General was ordered to implement and expand the foreign student monitoring program that was established under section 641(a) of the IIRIRA. which records the date and port of entry of each foreign student. The program was expanded to include other approved educational institutions, including air flight schools, language training schools or vocational schools that are approved by the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Education and the Secretary of State.

Therefore, to presume that it will not educate itself of the terminal purpose of, and the organisation to which, a foreigner is entering the US would be surprising.

It is more surprising, when at every instance, the US is being touted as the most efficient and perfect Nation on Planet Earth.

Comparing India with the US is misplaced since the ethos is different. Notwithstanding, the fact that there has been many scams that went undetected has put the Govt of India on the mat and it is at sixes and sevens over the same. Indeed, failing to detect the scam when it was occurring is a Govt failure. In India, we have no doubt about that and false patriotism does not permit us to cover the misdeeds that have taken place.

Unlike the US, which is touted to be the most perfect place with the most perfect governance, India is nowhere near being perfect and so it has it maladies.

When a person overstays his visa, it can be detected electronically, even in the US.

Inefficient that we maybe, all colleges have to indicate that they are govt approved or not. Am I to understand that in the US, colleges mushroom even in one room apartments and the US govt is blissfully ignorant? Does the US have any Secretary for Education who is responsible to ensure that quality education is given across the US or is it a free for all?

As far as Visa is concerned, try obtain a US visa in India. Your privacy is so thoroughly invaded that you feel you are nude. And if your name is Khan, you can kiss your attempt to enter the US goodbye.
 
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nrj

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US assures India of 'good judgement' in handling students case


WASHINGTON: In the wake of strong protest lodged by India over radio-tagging of Indian students duped by a California-based "sham" university, US immigration authorities have assured New Delhi that they would use "good judgement and common sense" while handling the case.

The assurance was given by John Morton, Director of the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), to Indian Ambassador Meera Shankar.

Morton called Shankar after the Indian embassy lodged strong protest before ICE and other US agencies against the manner in which hundreds of Indian students of the Tri Valley University were being treated by ICE, including forcing scores of them to wear radio tags and suspension of Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS) that prevented them from taking admission in other colleges.

Indian officials here have argued that there is no need to radio tag students as they do not have any intention to flee the country and they all are here having valid visas.

"Efforts are on to ensure that people who are legitimate students are not affected," said an Indian official familiar with the discussions with the US officials on this issue.

Shankar is understood to have strongly taken up the case of Tri Valley students with not only ICE, but also Department of Homeland Security and State Department officials.

Objecting to the manner in which Indian students are being treated, Indian embassy officials have argued that these students need to be treated in a humane manner and should not be made a victim of the federal investigation against the Tri Valley University founder and President Susan Su.

Shankar, during her interaction with the US officials, had specifically told them that radio tags should not be used against Indian students and that the blockage of SEVIS be lifted immediately so that students can apply for transfer to other universities and given sufficient time for this.

Also students may be permitted to go back to India, without prejudice, and not deported and allowed in normal course to reapply for studies in the US at authorised universities, the US officials were told.

During the conversation, the US officials, including the ICE Director, are believed to have acknowledged that there are a lot of innocent victims, but did not rule out that there might be some students who were involved in this scam.

Sources privy to the discussions said the ICE Director assured Shankar that instead of seeing this entire case as purely a law enforcement measure, he would be using "good judgement and common sense" in resolving the issues related to the students.

US officials are believed to have assured Indian authorities that every effort would be made to ensure that the academic career of genuine students is not affected and they get ample opportunity and alternatives to pursue their goals.

At the same time, deportation proceedings might be started against some, the officials conceded.

It is understood that the US officials told Indian authorities that there is not going to be a general amnesty kind of thing, and issues related to Indian students would be handled on a case by case basis.

ET
 

Ray

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The old Red Indian saying goes - Whiteman speak with forked tongue!

And snakeoil salesman is a US term!
 

JayATL

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You are a funny man indeed,i gave you a choice,but if you insist on making a fool of yourself,go ahead be my guest.



There is no indication that the Indian students pursued the Fake university's proposition with a clear knowledge that the institution is a sham university,dodgy nature of the institution perhaps became evident when they landed on hallowed shores of America,Indian students having seen their hard earned rupees defrauded off them,tried to make best of a worst situation.America and Americans treating those Indian students as criminals who are likely to disappear among USA's teeming millions,is borne of long held prejudices against Asian immigrants and not on any legal basis,and as they say old habits die hard.

The only right thing America can do, and i hope every sensible American citizen encourages his /her govt to do so,is to assist the students to continue their education at an alternative 'legal' institution,failing which the students be duly compensated for the loss suffered as a result of this fraud and Psychological trauma visited upon them as a result.
you need to read the article(s), I guess you are hell bent on your own version of rupeenews. and now there is some blanket discrimination of Asians that you have perceived. Suddenly you have become a purveyor of all that is US traits- how ironical. We are treated better here, hold top notch positions, well respected vs the treatment we saw from your shiva sena hoodlums in Bombay. thanks for the concern trolling..
 

JayATL

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When a Govt like the US which is so paranoid about illegals and its safety and when it has laws that cacn legally invaded the privacy of its citizens and organisations, there is no reason to believe that the US would not know about the status of its so called universities. The Patriot Act is clear on the issue.

The USA PATRIOT Act (commonly known as the "Patriot Act") is an Act of the U.S. Congress that was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. The Act dramatically reduced restrictions on law enforcement agencies' ability to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury's authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and broadened the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act's expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

The Act has provisions for anti money laundering as also Border Security.

The Congress wanted the primary focus of development of the entry-exit data system and included biometric technology and the development of tamper-resistant documents readable at ports of entry. They also wanted the system to be able to interface with existing law enforcement databases. The Attorney General was ordered to implement and expand the foreign student monitoring program that was established under section 641(a) of the IIRIRA. which records the date and port of entry of each foreign student. The program was expanded to include other approved educational institutions, including air flight schools, language training schools or vocational schools that are approved by the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Education and the Secretary of State.

Therefore, to presume that it will not educate itself of the terminal purpose of, and the organisation to which, a foreigner is entering the US would be surprising.

It is more surprising, when at every instance, the US is being touted as the most efficient and perfect Nation on Planet Earth.

Comparing India with the US is misplaced since the ethos is different. Notwithstanding, the fact that there has been many scams that went undetected has put the Govt of India on the mat and it is at sixes and sevens over the same. Indeed, failing to detect the scam when it was occurring is a Govt failure. In India, we have no doubt about that and false patriotism does not permit us to cover the misdeeds that have taken place.

Unlike the US, which is touted to be the most perfect place with the most perfect governance, India is nowhere near being perfect and so it has it maladies.

When a person overstays his visa, it can be detected electronically, even in the US.

Inefficient that we maybe, all colleges have to indicate that they are govt approved or not. Am I to understand that in the US, colleges mushroom even in one room apartments and the US govt is blissfully ignorant? Does the US have any Secretary for Education who is responsible to ensure that quality education is given across the US or is it a free for all?

As far as Visa is concerned, try obtain a US visa in India. Your privacy is so thoroughly invaded that you feel you are nude. And if your name is Khan, you can kiss your attempt to enter the US goodbye.
WOW a written document guarantees no fraud is perpetrated and ignorance of the law is an excuse to be let off. Got it!:thumb:

It is more surprising, when at every instance, the US is being touted as the most efficient and perfect Nation on Planet Earth.
where?

Unlike the US, which is touted to be the most perfect place with the most perfect governance, India is nowhere near being perfect and so it has it maladies.
more platitudes ?

Inefficient that we maybe, all colleges have to indicate that they are govt approved or not. Am I to understand that in the US, colleges mushroom even in one room apartments and the US govt is blissfully ignorant? Does the US have any Secretary for Education who is responsible to ensure that quality education is given across the US or is it a free for all?
please read up on what is accreditation system in US .

As far as Visa is concerned, try obtain a US visa in India. Your privacy is so thoroughly invaded that you feel you are nude. And if your name is Khan, you can kiss your attempt to enter the US goodbye
again not based on facts.
 
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JayATL

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The old Red Indian saying goes - Whiteman speak with forked tongue!

And snakeoil salesman is a US term!
I have another one from the US- stupid is what stupid does:thumb:
 

S.A.T.A

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You need to stop being such sorry apologist for your govt,i really i really hope your silly defense to the indefensible was sheer instincts,denying any wrong doing is only natural to be expected off Americans,and not because you had any dealings with this or similar fraud undertakings.Furthermore your opinions are not facts,no matter how redundant your rhetoric is.I would not be surprised to know America treats her citizen well(even the pakhis i presume),unfortunately that didn't seem to extend to those visiting that country,as the unfortunate Indian students have found for themselves..........

US economy certainly must be doing badly,if they have to live off misappropriated money,dark days indeed.
 

warriorextreme

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First, I agree with the analogy of shiv sena followers is akin to being a terrorist member of AQ, wholeheartedly.

next, I had originally asked that question of him because I found it mildly amusing that a de facto human rights denier Ala Shiv Sena man, was lecturing another nation on how they should have treated an indian citizen. When! in fact that very citizen(s), unless Maratha, would have been in the back of the line in India- if the shiva sena outlook is implemented in India itself.
i live in an area where muslims are dominant and leader of shiv-sena and MNS both are muslims and guess what they are chosen in each election and supported by both communties..
so you must update your knowledge about shiv-sena.
In india politics is more area-centric than anything else..
it was seen in BMC election when MNS was defeated by shiv-sena though initially they had huge support.
so please update your knowledge about India.


about the post..
i saw in news that some students were aware of this scam..
so i think if found guilty they should be sent to prison.
 

nrj

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about the post..
i saw in news that some students were aware of this scam..
so i think if found guilty they should be sent to prison.
Some of them might be involved in scam but many if not almost are believed to be innocent.
 

warriorextreme

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Some of them might be involved in scam but many if not almost are believed to be innocent.
yeah..
some also might have found it out afterward but what were they supposed to do?
all should not be punished for crime of others.
 

JayATL

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You need to stop being such sorry apologist for your govt,i really i really hope your silly defense to the indefensible was sheer instincts,denying any wrong doing is only natural to be expected off Americans,and not because you had any dealings with this or similar fraud undertakings.Furthermore your opinions are not facts,no matter how redundant your rhetoric is.I would not be surprised to know America treats her citizen well(even the pakhis i presume),unfortunately that didn't seem to extend to those visiting that country,as the unfortunate Indian students have found for themselves..........

US economy certainly must be doing badly,if they have to live off misappropriated money,dark days indeed.
Baghdad Bob at its best.

Me: Blame is assigned to everyone, but you can't apply the law to only one.
Baghdad Bob: But you say amerika is not to be blamed. Indian student innocent!
Me: No, i said it was everyone's fault. They did catch the fraud.
Baghdad Bob: But you say amerika is not at fault. Indian student innocent!
Me: well the students did go off and grab jobs under the table and leave shortly after they landed . that shows they knew it was a sham. at lest the ones reprimanded and as reported
Baghdad Bob: But you say amerika is not to be blamed. Indian student innocent!
Me: Hmm should I continue debating children of the lesser gods?

[Enter right of stage]
sepoy ram: hey you say amerika is always good so how you have problem , aye?
Me: err who said that it was omnipotent- why do say such things?
sepoy ram: You damn fool , you know who I am- you whitemen kisser?
Me: Now why would you say that?
baghdad bob: No No he is is Pakistani! ----why is board not in Marathi too? *looks around*

Me: exists stage.
 
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Ray

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JayATL,

Since you wish to be odious in your addressing issues, may I inform you that I have met many a black chap, who land on white shores and suddenly imagine that they have become whiter than a stork.

I am watching the TV and many a person of Indian origin are trying to indicate that they are loyal to the King than the King himself!

Please see your posts to realise that you feel that the US is the sole inheritor of the Earth.

Your commentary on my post indicates that you have no substantive issues to rebut them.
 
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Ray

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An Americanism and its 'interesting' logic that they are never wrong:

A drug is neither moral nor immoral -- it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an as******.

Frank Zappa
 

Ray

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Baghdad Bob at its best.

Me: Blame is everyone, but you can't apply the law to only one.
Baghdad Bob: But you say amerika is not to be blamed. Indian student innocent!
Me: No, i said it was everyone's fault. They did catch the fraud.
Baghdad Bob: But you say amerika is not at fault. Indian student innocent!
Me: well the students did go off and grab jobs under the table and leave shortly after they landed . that shows they knew it was a sham. at lest the ones reprimanded and as reported
Baghdad Bob: But you say amerika is not to be blamed. Indian student innocent!
Me: Hmm should I continue debating children of the lesser gods?

[Enter right of stage]
sepoy ram: hey you say amerika is always good so how you have problem , aye?
Me: err who said that it was omnipotent?
sepoy ram: You damn fool , you know who I am- you whitemen kisser?
Me: Now why would you say that?
baghdad bob: No No he is is Pakistani! ----why is board not in Marathi too? *looks around*

Me: exists stage.
Typical deflection when nothing substantive can be offered to support one's view!

One is not impressed with "Bagdad Bob", "Hanoi Hannah" or "Seoul City Sue" as well as other propagandists without alliterative nicknames like "Tokyo Rose".

Or even Pat yarns!

Typical gup shup and chatty prevarications to cloak issues and divert from the real points at hand.
 
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S.A.T.A

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Paki lota can try as well as he may to deny the crime,the fact is you stole the money from those poor kids and chained them to kennels for the same,ah paki,even hookers in America have the moral sense to live off their hard labour,dont make a living off others hard earned money.Stolen money,bad karma
 

Ray

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The students went on legal documents.

The Indian Embassy could have been asked to take their passport into safe custody so that they could not leave the US.

They could have been asked to report to the local Police Station daily to indicate that they are not absconding.

But the collar is culturally embarrassing to Indians who are not yet declared criminals, as using of toilet paper would be more than acceptable and maybe a matter for rejoicing to the Americans, even though it results in deforestation and global warming!
 

S.A.T.A

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Its sheer arrogance and nothing else. Lately India and Indians have been subjected to virulent rhetoric over out sourcing,job loss in skilled sectors etc,from regional representatives all the way to the President of that country,its only natural then that the decision to cuff them with radio collars,ostensibly by some over zealous law enforcement authority,was perhaps a corollary to the general negative rhetoric that exists in that country,visa viv Indian citizens.
 

Oracle

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Typical US crap mentality. They go to war with almost every other country in the world and support petty dictator regimes. And when it comes to people from the sub continent, they are so paranoid that they have to put GPS collars onto innocent students. I wonder what Barack Obama has to say about this, he afterall is also not white!
 

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