Indian Special Forces (archived)

[rkhanna]

What type of commn systems are the SF using? Are those thr same Motorolla ones used by RR and regular infantry?
Is the wireless systems of SF different from that used by rest of the army?

A very large part of Winged Raider (specially insertion) was done in "Day time" ops. Our night fighting capability is still extremely limited. We really need to bring that training and SOP/kit up to speed on that.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG Commando from 26 Special Composite Group ( SCG ) Mumbai Regional Hub

Sig Sauer SG 553 LB + Trijicon ACOG Advance Combat Helmet with Militech Tactical Clamp & mounted Monocular Night Vision Goggle

 

[Knowitall]

Why in exercise like these we see very inferior gear? Does it is because limited numbers of equipment hence everyone is unable to get equipments?

Exactly if you see carefully our jawans posted in Kashmir most of the time tend to have bulletproof vests and helmets if you look at our troops near the border you will not only see bulletproof vests but also new helmets including the Wendy ones and some even have comm systems and nvg's.

Even in the weapons department you will notice more and more FAB modified AK's and tonbo sights being used.

This is on large part due to the emergency purchases and some reforms that have taken place since the last term.

But the sad thing is that most of these emergency purchases and reforms were never in bulk but rather small quantities for the troops based in and around the Kashmir and Pakistan border region.

If you go a bit back you will find pictures of our troops placed on the Chinese side during an exercise.

You will find that they have even worse gear than the troops above old Insas rifle with extremely old helmets and no bulletproof jackets.

This all because it is a peaceful area.

What you are seeing is the misplaced priorities of the army here. The purchases that took place for our jawans in Kashmir was because long time back under Congress rule the condition was so bad that we used the rifles of dead terrorists can you imagine that.

So when the BJP government came in power they decided to change things by hook and crook and the result of that can be seen but even they can do so much.

If say in a month we have a war with China what reason will the army give for the poor gear our jawans has god knows.

Those 460 tanks they are buying from Russia had they rather used that money for our infantry we could have seen something along the lines of western gear in the service.

It's just misplaced priorities and corruption in the army that you see this condition.
Government did what it could for the army in JK rest they get the money they decide.

Take NSG CRPF and NAGALAND police for example take their gear into consideration all of them are at least 5-7 years ahead of the army and in the case of NSG a full 10.

Yes the roles are totally different I agree but looking at their gear and improvements and looking at their own fields how much one has advanced you'll see the difference.

Why Mizoram police seem to have AWP as their snipers while our army still uses drunagnov NSG has got the SIG dmr and psg1.
They finally started getting new snipers this was again a limited emergency purchase to counter Pakistani snipers who had better gear before.

Finally they pass a tender for a bulk order and guess what the cut it because lack of funds.
All I can say is wow instead of trying to buy everything at the same time make a plan these things for this year and so on but no they will do nothing like that.

Nagaland police gear looks great it just shows money is not the problem the way you spend it is.

And God knows what happened to those sniper rifles from that private company they are totally out of the news now after the initial pomp I do hope they get some orders.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

...............................

 

[Bleh]

...............................

Is that camo on the right Indian?... Better than the Marpat IMO.

I've seen lots of paramilitary personnels wearing it laterly. Looks like a digicamo version of the present one. IA too should really consider switching to it.

 

[Knowitall]

Is that camo on the right Indian?... Better than the Marpat IMO.

I've seen lots of paramilitary personnels wearing it laterly. Looks like a digicamo version of the present one. IA too should really consider switching to it. View attachment 41758

You will only see it with CRPF commandos you will find troops in Kashmir wearing it too but only CRPF. It's part of their overall slow but steady upgradation plan. From eyewear to new helmets and IWI x-95 flattops.

I think there is a picture of a CRPF commando in full gear somewhere here in a exhibition.

They are probably trying to make it the standard
Gear.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Dying to see them in service.


Some of their equipment are already getting into service :santa:
bho vadiya

 

[fyodor]

I come to this thread with excitement to get an idea of our troops effectiveness.

I go back after 5 minutes with depression and pity for our troops on the frontline. And disgust for the ringleaders who arm these troops with inferior outdated weapons and training.

 

[Twinblade]

I come to this thread with excitement to get an idea of our troops effectiveness.

I go back after 5 minutes with depression and pity for our troops on the frontline. And disgust for the ringleaders who arm these troops with inferior outdated weapons and training.

Its just equipment, not training which is dated.
We have some extremely good BPJs and helmets available today. Not just on display parades, but also on field. The speed with which our infantry has been equipped over the past few months is mind boggling. The entire 1,86,000 order of vests would be delivered by the middle of this year.

The Vests procures under GSQR 1438 are lighter than Gen4 US IOT Vest and Russian Ratnik 6b45 vest. The next procurement will be as per IS: 17051 which goes further than GSQR 1438 and makes protection even lighter. The GSQR 1438 vests are modular like the IOTV and the modules can be removed to create a basic 5 kg vest with front and back protection, like all the western SOF wear. There are many forces like the Chinese do not even issue body armour to standard troops. Yes, you read that correct. PLA does not issue body armour and they have a much more massive budget than ours.

The previous generation vests which were available weighed up to 20 KG for basic torso protection, therefore never widely adopted by troops. I would suggest you go ahead and read memoirs of soldiers and US DoD reports to see the practical downsides of heavy body armour. The US IBA and IOTV was so heavy initially and added so much weight to the soldiers bodies that between 2004 and 2013, one third of the medical evacuations were due to lower back injuries from carrying too much weight, twice that of combat casualties.

Except combat boots and field radios, nearly everything our infantry carries is under replacement with orders placed and delivery ongoing.

Once the delivery of current BPJ finishes, the next procurement cycle will be initiated. The new standard jackets will first arm Infantry and RR, followed by artillery and later logistics.

In 2-3 years, IA soldier would be unrecognizable from today's standards. Change is incoming and it is a massive change.

Next up is standard issue NVG procurement which has been stick between high expectations of Army and budget constraints.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Para SF Pathfinders' rapid insertion through Cheetah Chopper
From Army Day Demonstrations 2020

 

[abingdonboy]

Its just equipment, not training which is dated.
We have some extremely good BPJs and helmets available today. Not just on display parades, but also on field. The speed with which our infantry has been equipped over the past few months is mind boggling. The entire 1,86,000 order of vests would be delivered by the middle of this year.

The Vests procures under GSQR 1438 are lighter than Gen4 US IOT Vest and Russian Ratnik 6b45 vest. The next procurement will be as per IS: 17051 which goes further than GSQR 1438 and makes protection even lighter. The GSQR 1438 vests are modular like the IOTV and the modules can be removed to create a basic 5 kg vest with front and back protection, like all the western SOF wear. There are many forces like the Chinese do not even issue body armour to standard troops. Yes, you read that correct. PLA does not issue body armour and they have a much more massive budget than ours.

The previous generation vests which were available weighed up to 20 KG for basic torso protection, therefore never widely adopted by troops. I would suggest you go ahead and read memoirs of soldiers and US DoD reports to see the practical downsides of heavy body armour. The US IBA and IOTV was so heavy initially and added so much weight to the soldiers bodies that between 2004 and 2013, one third of the medical evacuations were due to lower back injuries from carrying too much weight, twice that of combat casualties.

Except combat boots and field radios, nearly everything our infantry carries is under replacement with orders placed and delivery ongoing.

Once the delivery of current BPJ finishes, the next procurement cycle will be initiated. The new standard jackets will first arm Infantry and RR, followed by artillery and later logistics.

In 2-3 years, IA soldier would be unrecognizable from today's standards. Change is incoming and it is a massive change.

Next up is standard issue NVG procurement which has been stick between high expectations of Army and budget constraints.

Sorry but this notion that equipment is sub par but training/capabilities is top notch is nonsense.

capabilities and training follow FROM equipment, for example in the early years of WOT US SOFs used to conduct all their Ops in the day but as they improved their NVG tech they traisntioned to the point that they exclusively operated at night where they had the greatest tactical advantage over their foes who had zero/limited night fighting capacities.


This is how US/NATO SOF have operated ever since


For the 1000th time- special forces are not supermen, they can be cut down just as easily as any regular grunt. What makes them special is a COMBINATION of a higher standard training and superior equipment.


We saw during that EDI debacle that Indian SOF aren’t up to contemporary standards.

to get a given task done I would take a Jordanian/Saudi/Malaysian (nations traditionally not thought to have great military capabilities) SOF unit over ant Indian SOF unit today as the former have embraced modern warfighting and have adopted both training and equipment levels of the top units in the world.


In equipment levels Indian SOFs are easily 35 years behind the very best Western (US/French/German) units.

and no, the gap isn’t shrinking, if anything it is only
widening- Western SOFs are already embarking on their next major upgrade cycle
Whilst Indian SOFs remain with the same sub-standard rubbish they had in 2010 only now they have been issued sunglasses.

 

[Bleh]

capabilities and training follow FROM equipment, for example

I can think of one good example... Sandeep Unnikrishnan died because they didn't have NVG & got sprayed by a jihadi sitting in a dark staircase hall because they couldn't hand-signal in the dark, giving out their position.

A off-axis or anglesight scope can undo a lot of training superiority & no amount of training can replace a snake/mini-drone cam... Even training with paintball guns can cleck & address claws in tactics, that'd go unidentified until something went wrong field.
Most of Indian operator's guns don't even have supressors!

 

[fire starter]

Sorry but this notion that equipment is sub par but training/capabilities is top notch is nonsense.

capabilities and training follow FROM equipment, for example in the early years of WOT US SOFs used to conduct all their Ops in the day but as they improved their NVG tech they traisntioned to the point that they exclusively operated at night where they had the greatest tactical advantage over their foes who had zero/limited night fighting capacities.


This is how US/NATO SOF have operated ever since


For the 1000th time- special forces are not supermen, they can be cut down just as easily as any regular grunt. What makes them special is a COMBINATION of a higher standard training and superior equipment.


We saw during that EDI debacle that Indian SOF aren’t up to contemporary standards.

to get a given task done I would take a Jordanian/Saudi/Malaysian (nations traditionally not thought to have great military capabilities) SOF unit over ant Indian SOF unit today as the former have embraced modern warfighting and have adopted both training and equipment levels of the top units in the world.


In equipment levels Indian SOFs are easily 35 years behind the very best Western (US/French/German) units.

and no, the gap isn’t shrinking, if anything it is only
widening- Western SOFs are already embarking on their next major upgrade cycle
Whilst Indian SOFs remain with the same sub-standard rubbish they had in 2010 only now they have been issued sunglasses.

hope special forces command will solve this problem and moreover this is what happens when bureaucrats decide which weapons should forces use.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Most of the audience of this thread is zero on sf knowledge.

Hence they dont understand that technology compliments training which compliments skill which compliments kill.

These kids with the ego of a teenage girl think that such missions are done Sunny Deol style and only we are brave.. only we are skilled.. only we are good.

We have a lot of catching up to do and not that we are poor.. we are just stupid with our acquirement.

Look at what the Spetsnaz did and look at Para SF .. disappointing.

And i don't know why do we have to do these stupid display of Commando shows to the crowd...most of the CAPF have adopted Chinese martial art bullshit demo to showcase that they are a Khamandoo.. flying kicks and bike stunts..

Even the Army display with Para sf looks soo stupid..a soldier took out the grenade pin by hand and then showed that he took it by his mouth sunny deol style and boom...what are we trying to do?

I dont knw where this is going but i have very little hope.

And @abingdonboy bro i told u many times that even till 2020 nothing will change even back in 2014.Now i think even by 2025 we wont be on par with any well equipped unit at that time because we are trying to catchup and our acquisitions are bullshit.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Arctic Cat All Terrain Vehicle

 

[Gessler]

Sorry but this notion that equipment is sub par but training/capabilities is top notch is nonsense.

capabilities and training follow FROM equipment

Nailed it.

.............................................................

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG Commando
26 SCG, Mumbai Regional Hub

SIG 553 LB + Trijicon ACOG
ACH + Militech Clamp + NVG

 

[Assassin 2.0]

..............................

 

[Assassin 2.0]

..............................

Indian soldiers deployed in the world’s highest battlefield Siachen glacier are getting personal kit worth around Rs one lakh for protection against extreme cold conditions there. Along with the personal kit for protection against winters, every soldier also gets equipment worth around Rs 1.5 lakhs for survival and moving around the Siachen glacier during their deployment there, Army sources told ANI here. The equipment and the personal kit of the troops were examined and reviewed by Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane during his trip to Siachen in the second week of January. “The facilities have been provided to the soldiers for personal protection from winters and survival in the extreme cold conditions. Clear instructions have been issued by the Army top brass that if the troops need more facilities, they should be provided that,” the sources said. The most expensive part of the personal kit of soldiers includes the multilayered extreme winter clothing which costs around Rs 28,000 per set along with the special sleeping bag which is worth around Rs 13,000. The down jacket and the special gloves of troops together cost around Rs 14,000 while the multipurpose shoes cost around Rs 12,500. Among the equipment being provided to the troops, is also the oxygen cylinder costing Rs 50,000 per piece which is very important at such altitudes as the oxygen levels are very low there. The Soldiers also get equipment and gadgets for detecting avalanche victims which costs around Rs 8,000. Avalanches are a very frequent occurrence in the glacier which receives very heavy snowfall during the year. India has been deploying forces at the heights ranging from 17,000 feet to 22,000 feet for more than three decades now at the Siachen glacier which was attempted to be usurped by the Pakistan Army. The Pakistan Army has ceded a significant chunk of their territory to the Chinese near the Siachen glacier area and Army top brass feels the area is strategically important for keeping enemy designs in check.

 

[rkhanna]

hope special forces command will solve this problem and moreover this is what happens when bureaucrats decide which weapons should forces use.

There is no special forces command as of yet