Indian Special Forces (archived)
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Every country evolves their strategies based on scope of challenges they faced in their past.
Most of the American policies today can be traced back to their formation, most of the British policies today can be traced back to their colonial past.
I no longer believe in this philosophy that just because someone else have a strategy, we should be having a similar policy too.
For ex: say IPKF was a successful campaign in SL, we would have probably have had a system where SF/MoD Would have a stake in more foreign policy decisions.
Coming back to my post, I am implying that circumstances and response to circumstances by a nation in the past plays an important role on how a nation plans and acts today.
Edit: if you want to further discuss this we can take it up another thread.
While mildy true it's not in it's entirety. Lack of real data analysis also leads to fallacy of conclusions.
Just because we drive a different car does it mean we reinvent the wheel ?
As far as a need for a cohesive SOF doctrine andstrategy is in fact a lesson learned from both Sri Lanka and kargil . A number of commissions have also stated the same.
Also where India sits today and it's experiences from yesterday will be moons apart from where we will be when we become a 5trl dollar economy. So countries evolve strategy for things they will face in the future. The past is just for lessons learnt.
We in India seem to be unable to learn from the past. Our conventional generals continue to want to Lord over the fifidoms and our civilian leadership is too uneducated to understand the essense of SOF forces
Lastly the need of a combined SOF template has been seen (with outstanding results) as far as Brazil / phillipines Poland etc. I am not even including israel France etc
Sometimes common sense is just that
Happy to continue on another thread
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Don’t think we are deviating much..
Poland i can understand....
Do give some more info on Brazil and Philippines SOF doctrines...
Does this have to do with constant civil wars raging around them.
Will post articles from SOFrep on Brazil and philps.
But yes due to the various insurgencies in Philippines. Insurgencies/civil war are just tags. India has been fighting such a civil war since birth
abingdonboy
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@Unknowncommando 2 So these Special Composite Groups of NSG look here to stay. NSG really moving back to its CT roots and ditching all other duties pretty rapidly. Good to see.
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NSG Rangers
Slithering session
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https://www.theweek.in/theweek/cover/india-para-commandos-lifestyle.html
Lizards and lassi
Keeper of faith: Subedar Ganguly (in turban) with commandos at the temple at the 10 Para (SF) headquarters in Jodhpur.
If Guruji can do it, so can we.” That is the faith the commandos of the 10 Para (Special Forces) have in Subedar Major Prakash Narayan Ganguly. The 54 year old is the priest of the temple at the unit’s headquarters in Jodhpur, Rajasthan, and a commando who can jump out of aircraft at 2,000 feet.
Every evening, he performs aarti at the temple, reads out scriptures and sings bhajans to the commandos who come to him after operations. “In this country, so many people don’t have work. So every day, I thank God that he has not only given all of us work, but also a chance to serve our nation,” he said.
Born in a religious family in the small town of Chhatarpur, Madhya Pradesh, Ganguly always loved the Army. “I had an inclination towards religion and when I joined the Special Forces, I saw the confluence of faith and victory. I realised that it is belief and self-confidence that can make you win wars. Praying to God increases that self-confidence,” he said.
Though he is the keeper of faith in the unit, Ganguly has also become the go-to person for commandos with personal problems. “When people have a family crisis, leave issues, or problems with their girlfriends, they come to me for advice,” he said. “I give them advice on how to approach their problems and, when they leave, they leave their stress behind.” Ganguly also spends hours with the families of martyrs who visit the headquarters.
Faith plays a crucial role at the headquarters of the unit, which is also called the ‘Home of the Quiet Professionals’. Suryadeep, an SF commando sitting at the temple altar, said Goddess Durga showed them the way when they faced a tough situation. “When there is darkness all around me and I don’t know what is going to happen, Durga takes over the mission and completes it,” he said.
Each team of the unit carries a small statue of Durga during operational deployment, which it keeps at the temple upon return. “In tough situations and against insurmountable odds, we all tend to cling on to faith and seek divine intervention,” said Major Prakash Choudhary. “So, everyone has their own belief systems from which they draw motivation. Some even look for that faith in local gods when they travel to high altitudes or deserts.”
The 10 Para SF was born in the deserts, he says, and its soldiers mostly belong to states like Rajasthan, Gujarat, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir. Such is their belief, especially in Vaishno Devi, that the unit’s exclusive greeting is “Jai Mata Di”. Most units of the Army, in fact, have special greetings like “Jai Hind”, “Ram Ram”, “Tagra Raho” and so on. Though the Army has adopted a standard salutation—“Jai Hind”—the commandos often use their personal greetings, which increases camaraderie and brings a smile to their faces.
Recently, the unit built a motivation hall on its campus, which has a Jonga parked outside. The Army had used this four-wheeler in the first motorised cross-border raid in Chachro, 60km inside Pakistan, during the 1971 war.
“The motivation hall was built with two aims,” said Choudhary. “To give an insight into the battalion and inspire new paratroopers, and as a homage to fallen comrades.” Among other tributes, the hall has a statue of Havildar Bahadur Singh Bohra, who received the Ashok Chakra after he was martyred while fighting insurgents in Kashmir in 2008. During the operation, his team eliminated 13 of them.
It is this passion that drives the para commandos. There is never a dull moment at the headquarters, and they say the sun never sets for the 10 Para SF. They train always. A favourite haunt of the six-packed commandos is the gym, where they train whenever their schedule permits. After a gruelling training session in the morning and a back-breaking, six-a-side game of hockey in the evening, they usually hit the gym at night.
“For us, upper body strength is essential to lift the load and do route marches,” said para commando Bhim Sen. In the cold evenings, he stands bare chested, pumping iron, competing with himself. “I am going to test my limits before my battalion does,” he said, winding up the conversation quickly.
Apart from its exploits on the field, the unit also takes pride in its food, which includes specialities like commando toast, rocket and para lassi. The commando toast is bread, topped with a spicy paste of ginger, garlic and red chillies. Then there is the rocket—wheat bread stuffed with gur (jaggery)—called so because it looks like a rocket. The para lassi, which the commandos said is high in nutrition, gets its name from the size of the serving. It is served in a huge tumbler. As we finished our well-prepared meal, I asked them, “Is there a celebration or have you cooked this especially for us?” A jawan turned around and said, “Yeh 10 Para ke langar ka khana hai. Hamara khana officers’ mess se bhi acha hota hai [This is the food from our community kitchen, which is better than what you get even in the officers’ mess].”
The infantry marches on its stomach. If the food is good, the morale goes up immediately, said Subedar Major Shaurya Rajput. But, when the para commando goes on a long operation, he must learn to eat anything that moves. “That does not come without knowledge of the ground, good discipline and shedding of inhibitions,” he said. He is trained to find water, and know which plant to eat by smelling its leaves. From snakes to lizards to peculiar plants, the commando knows how to live off the land.
But, when it comes to food, especially in the Army, can a drink be far behind? The 10 Para (SF) has a “commando club”, where jawans let their hair down, listen to music and enjoy a drink after a hard day’s work. “Whenever we sit together, we end up discussing operations and exchanging notes,” said Subedar Karandeep. “Unlike other places where liquor and its sale is controlled, para commandos believe that if you are trusting your guy with your weapon, you can definitely trust him with his drink, too.” The scene is no different in the officers’ mess, named Skyfall, where officers and their families often celebrate a promotion, a festival or a child’s birthday.
Then, there are some leisurely afternoons, when the men often visit the indoor barber shop, which is being renovated. “You know how Army men are. They love to get a haircut and [they always have to have] the trademark crew cut,” said Lieutenant Colonel Arjun Bali. The barber is a para commando, who is enjoying his new stint, dressing the hair of his burly clients. The salon has tall mirrors and comfortable chairs, but what stands out is the wallpaper—it shows the para commandos moving out for operations at the crack of dawn, ready to strike at a moment’s notice.
Lizards and lassi
Keeper of faith: Subedar Ganguly (in turban) with commandos at the temple at the 10 Para (SF) headquarters in Jodhpur.
If Guruji can do it, so can we.” That is the faith the commandos of the 10 Para (Special Forces) have in Subedar Major Prakash Narayan Ganguly. The 54 year old is the priest of the temple at the unit’s headquarters in Jodhpur, Rajasthan, and a commando who can jump out of aircraft at 2,000 feet.
Every evening, he performs aarti at the temple, reads out scriptures and sings bhajans to the commandos who come to him after operations. “In this country, so many people don’t have work. So every day, I thank God that he has not only given all of us work, but also a chance to serve our nation,” he said.
Born in a religious family in the small town of Chhatarpur, Madhya Pradesh, Ganguly always loved the Army. “I had an inclination towards religion and when I joined the Special Forces, I saw the confluence of faith and victory. I realised that it is belief and self-confidence that can make you win wars. Praying to God increases that self-confidence,” he said.
Though he is the keeper of faith in the unit, Ganguly has also become the go-to person for commandos with personal problems. “When people have a family crisis, leave issues, or problems with their girlfriends, they come to me for advice,” he said. “I give them advice on how to approach their problems and, when they leave, they leave their stress behind.” Ganguly also spends hours with the families of martyrs who visit the headquarters.
Faith plays a crucial role at the headquarters of the unit, which is also called the ‘Home of the Quiet Professionals’. Suryadeep, an SF commando sitting at the temple altar, said Goddess Durga showed them the way when they faced a tough situation. “When there is darkness all around me and I don’t know what is going to happen, Durga takes over the mission and completes it,” he said.
Each team of the unit carries a small statue of Durga during operational deployment, which it keeps at the temple upon return. “In tough situations and against insurmountable odds, we all tend to cling on to faith and seek divine intervention,” said Major Prakash Choudhary. “So, everyone has their own belief systems from which they draw motivation. Some even look for that faith in local gods when they travel to high altitudes or deserts.”
The 10 Para SF was born in the deserts, he says, and its soldiers mostly belong to states like Rajasthan, Gujarat, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir. Such is their belief, especially in Vaishno Devi, that the unit’s exclusive greeting is “Jai Mata Di”. Most units of the Army, in fact, have special greetings like “Jai Hind”, “Ram Ram”, “Tagra Raho” and so on. Though the Army has adopted a standard salutation—“Jai Hind”—the commandos often use their personal greetings, which increases camaraderie and brings a smile to their faces.
Recently, the unit built a motivation hall on its campus, which has a Jonga parked outside. The Army had used this four-wheeler in the first motorised cross-border raid in Chachro, 60km inside Pakistan, during the 1971 war.
“The motivation hall was built with two aims,” said Choudhary. “To give an insight into the battalion and inspire new paratroopers, and as a homage to fallen comrades.” Among other tributes, the hall has a statue of Havildar Bahadur Singh Bohra, who received the Ashok Chakra after he was martyred while fighting insurgents in Kashmir in 2008. During the operation, his team eliminated 13 of them.
It is this passion that drives the para commandos. There is never a dull moment at the headquarters, and they say the sun never sets for the 10 Para SF. They train always. A favourite haunt of the six-packed commandos is the gym, where they train whenever their schedule permits. After a gruelling training session in the morning and a back-breaking, six-a-side game of hockey in the evening, they usually hit the gym at night.
“For us, upper body strength is essential to lift the load and do route marches,” said para commando Bhim Sen. In the cold evenings, he stands bare chested, pumping iron, competing with himself. “I am going to test my limits before my battalion does,” he said, winding up the conversation quickly.
Apart from its exploits on the field, the unit also takes pride in its food, which includes specialities like commando toast, rocket and para lassi. The commando toast is bread, topped with a spicy paste of ginger, garlic and red chillies. Then there is the rocket—wheat bread stuffed with gur (jaggery)—called so because it looks like a rocket. The para lassi, which the commandos said is high in nutrition, gets its name from the size of the serving. It is served in a huge tumbler. As we finished our well-prepared meal, I asked them, “Is there a celebration or have you cooked this especially for us?” A jawan turned around and said, “Yeh 10 Para ke langar ka khana hai. Hamara khana officers’ mess se bhi acha hota hai [This is the food from our community kitchen, which is better than what you get even in the officers’ mess].”
The infantry marches on its stomach. If the food is good, the morale goes up immediately, said Subedar Major Shaurya Rajput. But, when the para commando goes on a long operation, he must learn to eat anything that moves. “That does not come without knowledge of the ground, good discipline and shedding of inhibitions,” he said. He is trained to find water, and know which plant to eat by smelling its leaves. From snakes to lizards to peculiar plants, the commando knows how to live off the land.
But, when it comes to food, especially in the Army, can a drink be far behind? The 10 Para (SF) has a “commando club”, where jawans let their hair down, listen to music and enjoy a drink after a hard day’s work. “Whenever we sit together, we end up discussing operations and exchanging notes,” said Subedar Karandeep. “Unlike other places where liquor and its sale is controlled, para commandos believe that if you are trusting your guy with your weapon, you can definitely trust him with his drink, too.” The scene is no different in the officers’ mess, named Skyfall, where officers and their families often celebrate a promotion, a festival or a child’s birthday.
Then, there are some leisurely afternoons, when the men often visit the indoor barber shop, which is being renovated. “You know how Army men are. They love to get a haircut and [they always have to have] the trademark crew cut,” said Lieutenant Colonel Arjun Bali. The barber is a para commando, who is enjoying his new stint, dressing the hair of his burly clients. The salon has tall mirrors and comfortable chairs, but what stands out is the wallpaper—it shows the para commandos moving out for operations at the crack of dawn, ready to strike at a moment’s notice.
Unknowncommando 2
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H&K Mp5-SD3 + Zeiss RSA-S Sight
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Unknowncommando 2
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Unknowncommando 2
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PARA SF Rifle : IWI Tavor 21
Sight : ITL MARS Red Dot
Headgear : Advance Combat Helmet
Laser Designator : AN/PEQ 2
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Bhadra
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OK tell me.
Post Rajiv Gandhi assasin, when every Tom Dick and Harry were provided black cat security wherein their half of the organisation was composed of soldiers from SF, were the three Chiefs offered any protection?
Do the Service Chiefs deserve any real or status related ceremonial protection ? After all we live in a status hungry society where politicians and bureaucrats will push each other down to gain status. Nehru otherwise would not have run to occupy the FlagStaff House, now Teen Murti, to oust and outrun the then C-in-C.
If yes, what is the harm in a few SF men being employed for this purpose. Does that degrade SF who are ready to be provide as part of NSG doing much lower status jobs?
Does it deserves to be made an issue ?
armyofhind
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One wrong doesn't justify another. The fact of the matter is that when there are dedicated units for providing close protection, then the job should be given to them or the Army can raise another dedicated unit from amongst its manpower dedicated to providing close protection to the Chiefs and other important officers.
Special Forces arent meant to do that job. Their job is an offensive one, that too unconventional. Using them as elite infantry or bodyguards isn't acceptable.
Bhadra
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Strange are the ways of India ~
Provision of Security to COAS is wrong.
Raising a new corps fo that is right.
About half of SF forces are acceptable to be in NSG for police jobs. NSG can be employed to give protection to mother of Robert Vadra. but protecting your Chief is wrong and derogatory.
Stupid arguments.
It is an authorised job and must have had appropriate sanction. It is not for you or me to question it. It is not for SF to decide what their job is. Any one in the Armed Forces would be proud to that.
Khalas .....
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armyofhind
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You need to check your facts and see whether the arguments you're making are valid or stupid before calling anyone else's arguments stupid.
Take any country in the world, they have dedicated special units for the very same purpose.
Oh and by the way, deputations from Para SF into NSG are welcomed by team leaders, as the level at which NSG train in CQB is at much more depth than any other unit in India. When the troopers rotate out of NSG, they bring that knowledge back into the SF units.
You seem to be far behind of how it's done around the world. Special Forces units are placed outside the command and control of regular military setups and have their independent planning, training, budget and execution. Oh and by the way, these exact same recommendations were made by the Naresh Chandra committee for our special forces, and this committee had officials from the army and government on it.
And by the way, this is why the SOD is being setup.
it doesn't resonate within the SF community. I can tell you that for a fact as I know some people quite closely from that community.
So clear up your facts before rambling around with your personal, and quite non contemporary opinions, without any source or reference, as you have been doing on most threads.
Not correct. NSG draws its personnel equally from regular army units as from SF, and then too, army personnel serve in Special Action Group, under which there are two units, and these units are dedicated entirely to respond to Counter Terrorist and Hostage Rescue situations, which by the way are not regular police jobs.
Take any country in the world, they have dedicated special units for the very same purpose.
Oh and by the way, deputations from Para SF into NSG are welcomed by team leaders, as the level at which NSG train in CQB is at much more depth than any other unit in India. When the troopers rotate out of NSG, they bring that knowledge back into the SF units.
Wrong on facts again. The units of NSG which are deployed in protection duties to Netas are Special Rangers Group, which draws its personnel entirely from police and CAPF. There is no involvement of Army Personnel there.
Sure, it has a sanction from within the admin setup of the Army. That doesnt make it sacrosanct or beyond question. The sahayak system was also sanctioned by the army admin setup, and we all know how it was misused by non responsible officers.
Actually, it pretty much is. Or atleast, that's how it should be.
You seem to be far behind of how it's done around the world. Special Forces units are placed outside the command and control of regular military setups and have their independent planning, training, budget and execution. Oh and by the way, these exact same recommendations were made by the Naresh Chandra committee for our special forces, and this committee had officials from the army and government on it.
And by the way, this is why the SOD is being setup.
That's what you think, and you are trying to generalise it for everyone else,
it doesn't resonate within the SF community. I can tell you that for a fact as I know some people quite closely from that community.
So clear up your facts before rambling around with your personal, and quite non contemporary opinions, without any source or reference, as you have been doing on most threads.
Bhadra
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Very much police job. The presence and employment of Army personal does not make it Army job. If you do not know that do not give irrational arguments.
Training is not the purpose and objective to be posted into NSG. If that training makes someone fit for the job, MHA may train the police personal. However, it is not so. If Army SF wants to train like NSG they can create their own training infrastructure and train all SF like NSG. Why only a few. False ideas and unsound reasoning.
The organisation is NSG paid and funded by MHA and even an Army man can be assigned any duty. All are under NSG Act (section 3). Army men are assigned a separate role for specefic reason and not they can be employed under "Safty" setup.
Do not bring in external issues to vest your frustration.
Not at all. It is for persons responsible for your employment who know it best and is answerable. It appears you have had effect of some NSG type police culture on you.
Really. What the fucks the three Services have to do with "Special Operations".
Does that mean they will not be employed by the the three Services. You need to grossly correct yourself. You appear to at best a "Sheikh Chilli". So the first condition for SOD is that he will not do anything that has any samblance to the three Services.??? Just grow up....
A SF Major or some SF soldiers after two to three years rigorous life in the Myanmar jungles or Afruda needing a break but not fitting into a staff job, if is employed with COAS, it is an insult to him.? That is what the "community" thinks? Then the "community" is on a wrong track.
What that "community" do when they find most of them landing a "Security" jobs or premature or otherwise retirements. It is better for a SF havildar to be employed as a personal body guard by a Haryana Gunda rather than be with his Army Chief. Frustration and rebellion galore !
Thanks for your kind advise but keep that to yourself.
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armyofhind
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This statement by you in itself betrays your ignorance. If it was a police job, there wouldn't be special units around the world to tackle the aforementioned situations.
False. Army personnel go to SAG and the only duties SAG have are CT and HRT.
I never said that. That is you trying to give it another angle in order to suit your argument. Purpose of NSG is fairly clear. And no, Army SF cannot train at the same depth in Hostage Rescue as NSG because Army SF isn't the first choice for Hostage Situations. That is not their primary role.
But the way SF men are, they always welcome new knowledge and skills in their trade.
Compare the Kill House at Nahan with that at Manesar, and anyone in their right mind can get some idea.
Sure, the entire SF community is wrong and you are right.
The rest of your post I won't bother with. I have no time to argue with an idiot who cannot argue on facts and starts using "Sheikh chilli" strawman statements when can't think of something concrete to say.
Keep living in your bubble. Nobody cares.
abingdonboy
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You are conflating things.
The NSG that are used to provide VVIP protection are from SRG- all recruited form CAPFs. No army personnel and hence no SF serve in SRG, army recruits only go into SAG.
Anyway NSG is gradually being taken away from VVIP protection duties anyway. Today only about 11 people are covered by them and this is being drawn down.
It is utterly ridiculous to be justifying SF operators being used for such a task (COAS protection). It is a waste of their skills and training.
This is something military police should be doing only, not the elite of the elite.
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