Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Dark Sorrow, Jul 8, 2010.
Are there plans to establish a dedicated sniper school... for Indian army...
The Alma mater for sniper training is Infantry School which used to conduct Sniper Course earlier. However, probably due to overload, they had stopped it. But they has adequate and proper infrastructure to do it.
Sniper training now falls under operational training and can be undertaken by operational commands.
Infantry school has 1 km firing range for sniper training?
Dedicated sniper training school is a must at the moment, we cannot depend on stop gap part time basis all the time, our snipers should not be under prepared and under equipped. A few snipers rifles and training for handling these weapons won't do.
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And not just one sniper school, they should created one each in every ecological zone available to us.
1) pahadi(already created)
3) north east
4) near the coast at sea level, if possible one more in Andaman or Lakshadweep..
At one KM Range every small deviation due to climatic conditions matter...
Oh yes, MMG range is about 1.5 km. They have a large field firing range and many exercise ares. However if I can achieve one km shot I will in seventh heaven.
Operational Commands can very well do it. All operational Corps have what they call as CBS (Corps Battle School) where snipper training can be organised under suitable terrain and weather conditions.
Many operational formation conduct "Snipper Competitions" towards that end. However basics like sniper rifles , ammunition, spotter scopes, gillie suites are not available.
Army is now trying to procure Sniper Rifles.
Spotter scopes are being provided, there was a tender for 450 odd spotter scopes with digital recording last week.
Gille suits shouldn’t be a problem for local manufacturing, it’s just a matter of IA releasing a proper GSQR if there is none.
Ammo manufacturing is a problem. Pretty sure lapua ammo won’t be manufactured here, economies of scale being the problem.
Sniper rifles won’t be manufactured in India, that’s a given.
Indian Army deploys US-, Italy-trained snipers with deadly new rifles along LoC
Elite units of the Indian Army, equipped with deadly new sniper rifles, have been deployed along the Line of Control with Pakistan after special training from American and Italian experts.Sources in the Army told ThePrint that units carrying the Beretta .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT and the Barrett .50 calibre M95 have been deployed at the LoC ahead of the infiltration season, which is expected to start soon.
Specials units, along with some regular soldiers from the LoC battalions, have been trained by experts from abroad on the use of these weapons and the different kinds of ammunition to be used based on operational requirements.Sources said since these rifles have a much longer range and power than the ageing Russian Dragunov that the soldiers were using until now, specialised training had to be given so that targets could be taken out at over 1,000 metres with precision.
What’s special about the new rifles
The US-made Barrett M95 is an anti-material rifle which has a range of 1,800 metres. An anti-material rifle means the bullet can actually pierce through metal.
The gun, which is in use with many special forces around the world, is a bolt-action sniper rifle chambered in a .50 Browing Machine Gun cartridge (12.7×99mm).
With an unloaded gun weighing about 10 kg, the M95 first came out in 1995, and is part of the Barrett M82 family, the first notable American made .50 calibre anti-material rifles introduced in 1982.The rifle feeds from a five-round detachable box magazine, and is lighter and more compact than earlier products.
The other rifle handed to troops along the LoC is the Victrix Armaments .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio TGT, owned by Italian firm Beretta.
The Scorpio TGT uses the .338 Lapua Magnum (8.6×70mm or 8.58×70mm), a rimless, bottle-necked, centre-fire rifle cartridge. It was developed in the 1980s as a high-powered, long-range cartridge for military snipers. It was used in the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war.
Although the .338 Lapua Magnum was initially developed to penetrate body armour at 1,000 metres, it has been used effectively to 1,500 metres and beyond, and holds the distinction of being part of some of the record-breaking sniper shots in war.
At least 30 countries use the .338 Lapua Magnum sniper rifles, and over a dozen manufacturers produce guns, in multiple configurations, in this calibre.
By the way there is a new bullet in the market. It's a downsized .50 cal being called .416 Barret
It has better energy and remains supersonic even after 1200mts. Solid copper bullets would go through relatively armoured vehicles through and through... Softer lead bullet would dump all the energy in one go.
The lighter bullet has a higher muzzel velocity (3150 lowFPS vs 2820 FPS for .50 BMG) for a lower powder load. And with a oversized muzzel brake, the recoil is complete managed without any fancy recoil mechanism.
Let's take a look at why the Barrett M95(AMR) is deadlier than the Victrix Scorpio TCT .338 in terms of damage both procured by the Army. The answer is the variety of ammunitions that will be used at LoC against Pak posts/bunkers. This is something no one seems to talk about.
The important thing about this rifle is not only the effective range in it's RFI kept at 1800m, but the special varieties of ammunitions that makes it even more powerful. This gives the Indian Army to not only shoot deadly accurate but also wreck havoc in terms of damage to the posts or enemies hiding behind their bunker/posts, which is the case in LoC. Pictures of all types of rounds given so check them out.
Types of Rounds:
1) Armor Piercing Incendiary and Tracer (API/API - T)Red tip- Both the versions are deadly in terms of armour penetrating purpose especially the incendiary that uses high temperature fire.
2) Saboted Light Armor Penetrator / Tracer (SLAP)- This is a unique round that basically is like a kinetic Tank round but in a smaller scale against steel armour plate.
3) Armor Piercing Explosive Incendiary (APEI)grey on yellow tip- good for hunting targets inside bunkers
4) High Explosive Armor Piercing Incendiary (HEAPI) green on silver tip- same as the above but with extra added power. Special mention to the Raufoss Mk211 round in picture.
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Mass production of vidhwanshak amr rifle is required to force paki snipers on the backfoot.
Armour armour and armours piercing ... where is the armour in LC man.
.338 is not a very big caliber for bunkers, not even a stone on the sangar / bunker will get a crack. On the Pakistan side most of those are stone sangars and very few cement brick or RCC bunkers.
One does not require a sniper rifle to hit bunker, it is the soldier inside or around the bunker who needs to be hit either through loop holes or otherwise. If I wish to destroy a bunker, a hit of 155mm howitzer shell will be much better, or I would prefer a tandem warhead missile.
A heavy caliber AMR would be better and still, L-70 gun or a zsu gun in direct firing can inflict more damage.
Vehicular movements and making a vehicle a target is also very few, at three four places only. That too at greater distances.
There are no bullet proof vehicle being used on LC nor by terrorists. No APC or IFV, so why do you need so much AP ammunition firing sniper rifles.
What one needs is an ammunition that can penetrate body armour even at 1000m and kill the target. That is it.
Maaf Karo baba apani 30 kg Gun apane hi pass rakho ...
Three barrels ... one man can not even cock this damn thing...
Why is OFB not making ammunition?
Import from South Africa ??
Then why does ia fast track procure these gun at the first instance?
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To kill Pakistani soldiers and not for bunker bursting ..... Why use Ammunition for that at higher cost ??
Each round has its own special application. The problem with India is the lack of training in this specialized field. Sniping is an art, and a science. Its not the gun that makes the Sniper, its the training. So far India lacks that as well. As well as not having a dedicated sniper school.
Sometimes porkies hide inside their bunkers for fear of being halal.
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On LC, the Armour piercing ammunition has little application - was the point. There are only three places where distant vehicular traffic takes place.
Everything is inside the bunker but Armour Piercing ammunition of that caliber is not meant for piercing the bunker walls..
INDIA NOW HAS SNIPER EDGE OVER PAKISTAN
SUNDAY, JUNE 09, 2019 BY INDIAN DEFENCE NEWS
Beretta's Victrix Armaments .338 Lapua Magnum Scorpio-TGT sniper rifle, Elite units deployed along the LoC have been given the new rifle
Emergency purchase of Barrett M95.50 BMG and Beretta Scorpio TGT Victoria .338 Lapua Magnum, with kill range of 1.5 km to 1.8 km, negates Pak advantage on LoC
India now has superior sniper power than Pakistan. The Army has made an emergency purchase of latest sniper rifles with a better range, firepower and telescopic sights than the adversary. The move comes after six soldiers died in sniper attacks by Pakistan on the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu & Kashmir last year and an identical number fell to the enemy’s bullets in 2017.
The new rifles, namely Barrett M95.50 BMG and Beretta Scorpio TGT Victoria .338 Lapua Magnum, were recently inducted into some units on the LoC to negate the advantage enjoyed by Pakistan there. Till now, they had better sniper rifles, Remington, with a range of more than 1.5 km while the Indian Army gun’s range was far short. The new rifles have a kill range of 1.5 km to 1.8 km.
Realising the seriousness of the situation, the Northern Command went in for immediate procurement of at least 30 new rifles which are now in use by snipers trained abroad, officials said here on Saturday. They also said the new rifles were bought under the provision of special powers given to the Northern Command chief for such emergency and critical requirements.
The US-made Barrett has a range of nearly 1,800 metres while the Italian made Beretta has a kill range of more than 1,500 metres. Both these rifles are extensively used by Special Forces of several countries and the induction of these high precision weapons “will definitely give us the advantage over the enemy which till now had the upper hand at various places on the LoC,” sources said.
At present, the Indian Army is using 1963 vintage Russian-made Dragunov sniper rifles inducted into service in 1990. This semi-automatic rifle has a kill range of less than 1 km thereby giving critical operational upper hand to Pakistani snipers whose Remingtons have a range of 1.5 km. Moreover, the Russian rifles do not have Picatinny rails making the weapon incompatible with several modern essential accessories like magnification and sight systems. The new rifles have the rails, and telescopic sights of any magnification and sight can be mounted thereby giving the required flexibility to the commander, they said.
In all, the Indian Army needs nearly 5,800 sniper rifles with a range of more than 1,200 metres and the request for information (RFI) or global tender was floated way back in 2016. While the process of zeroing in on the ultimate vendor is still on, the Northern Command went in for emergency purchase given the ground situation on the LoC, they said.
Officials also said procurement of the 5,800 rifles will be for all the 382 infantry battalions, each of which is sanctioned 10 sniper rifles given the specialised training and nature of the weapon, they said. The Special Forces units, however, are equipped with advanced sniper rifles like Israeli Galil rifles, and are now in the process of inducting Finnish Sako sniper rifles having a range of 2,20O metres.
Explaining the significance of the deployment of these sniper guns at vulnerable points at the LoC, they said it comes at a time when Pakistan will now try to push in terrorists into Kashmir after snow has melted thereby opening up all the ingress routes in South and North of Pir Panjal. Though no infiltration bids have come to notice so far, the operational commanders are not taking any chances and have further strengthened the counter-infiltration grid all along the LoC, they said.
Elaborating upon the importance of modern sniper and highly trained snipers, officials said, “They are force multipliers to any infantry battalion. The high standard of sniper training and their imaginative employment leads to decisive and out-of-proportion results.”
Reports indicated that in an effort to dominate the LoC and counter the Indian Army’s measures to check infiltration, the Pakistan Army has rushed more snipers to all its forward posts to target Indian Jawans. Since the sniper is always elusive and picks up a target with meticulous care, any kill has a demoralising impact. The Indian Army wants to avoid casualties due to such attacks, they said.
The Pakistani snipers take positions at odd locations close to the forward posts to target Indian Jawans proceeding on long patrols and forward locations.
When border skirmishes peaked in the aftermath of surgical strikes by the elite Indian commandos 2016, the infantry soldiers were even directed to use trenches to move between bunkers across all the forward posts.
These instructions were given to the post commanders to minimise the risk factor. These instructions were issued after closely observing a pattern of sniper attacks by the Pakistan army and such precautions are the normal practice even now, they said.
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