Indian Power Sector

[Singh]

MMS will be hailed for getting nuclear power by our future generation.

 

[johnee]

MMS is not Gandhi. If it all turns out good, then Sonia Gi and and Rahul Gi will be praised. And if it goes wrong, then MMS will be tarnished.

 

[SPIEZ]

This reminds of villages and towns in UP where power cuts of 8 to 12 hours have been the regular phenomenon for years. In fact in many villages enterprising people have set up mini power plants with Diesel Gensets and supply power directly to the villagers and charge a flat rate per connection.

The other day there was a news article that Maharashtra would be facing upto 11 hours of power cuts per day. We are also not far behind, it seems.

power revenue dept complain about MISSING or STOLEN POWER. they connect wires directly onto transmission wires or street lights. common even in AP i m told

 

[Yusuf]

BESCOM is the only state run electricity that makes a profit in the country. The transmission losses are also lesser and no theft. Not a lot of it anyways. All meters have been converted to digital.

The other day i saw on news about pre paid meters in Mumbai.

here is the link http://ibnlive.in.com/news/prepaid-meter-to-solve-high-power-bill-problem/190615-3.html

 

[sandeepdg]

MMS will be hailed for getting nuclear power by our future generation.

Manmohan uncle is just a pawn for Congress ! All the praise will go to Congress party and Sonia madam and her Rahul baba. What MMS did with the economy in 1991 was worth praising but all that went down the drain with the chain of debacles of the government that has started since the last 3 years.

 

[sandeepdg]

Well, same incidents have happened in UP and Haryana too due to the poor power situation, as I read some time back. But obviously not at this scale.

 

[Tshering22]

Well, same incidents have happened in UP and Haryana too due to the poor power situation, as I read some time back. But obviously not at this scale.

I think they should riot too. Break some electricity offices, lynch a few MLAs and local government dodos. That will make the dreaded state governments of these 2 states thing twice.

These politician scum only understnd the language of beating.

 

[sandeepdg]

I think they should riot too. Break some electricity offices, lynch a few MLAs and local government dodos. That will make the dreaded state governments of these 2 states thing twice.

These politician scum only understnd the language of beating.

You bet ! It has already happened in Haryana at least, somewhere near Rohtak or Hissar. Mobs of people attacked smaller substations and bashed up everyone working there and broke office furniture.

The power distribution employees were so damn scared that their higher up asked them to arm themselves with lathis to ward off any attack on them and act int their self defense.

 

[johnee]

I think they should riot too. Break some electricity offices, lynch a few MLAs and local government dodos. That will make the dreaded state governments of these 2 states thing twice.

These politician scum only understnd the language of beating.

Yep, they understand only that language. When their ass is on fire, they start doing things. Till then, its all maya...

 

[The Messiah]

For past couple of years we have constant 24x7 electricity in delhi. earlier on it used to go for a couple a hrs everyday in summers.

not anymore.

 

[Bangalorean]

All very well to talk about beating politicians. The fact is that new power generation projects get mired in all kinds of issues, from land acquisition to farmer protests, to environmentalist protests, and the greatest of all - protests by professional protestors like Medha Patkar and company.

The people in Rohtak who went and beat up the power dept employees and broke office furniture should be approached by the government to acquire their lands for a thermal power plant. Of course they should be compensated adequately, as per market rate. And the government should not back down, no matter what.

 

[Tshering22]

All very well to talk about beating politicians. The fact is that new power generation projects get mired in all kinds of issues, from land acquisition to farmer protests, to environmentalist protests, and the greatest of all - protests by professional protestors like Medha Patkar and company.

The people in Rohtak who went and beat up the power dept employees and broke office furniture should be approached by the government to acquire their lands for a thermal power plant. Of course they should be compensated adequately, as per market rate. And the government should not back down, no matter what.

There has to be some clause introduced where environmentalists don't become infrastructural terrorists. This is a big problem as it hampers growth and development. There is so much deserted non-Arable land in the country around the places. Just go by a train and you'd see acres and acres of them lying free far from the main city. Why the fcuk does the government need arable land to create issues? Sometimes I feel they do it on purpose so that projects get delayed and they can suck up the allotted money before things smoothen up.

Protestors like Patkar are the kinds of terrorist lovers. She's equally worse as Suzanna Arundhati Roy and people should segregate scum like her from their protests.

If the sarkari losers are armed with lathis to deny the people their right, then people must come armed with swords and daggers to make them submit. Only the language of force can bring change in this country's governance.

 

[agentperry]

in India every one is listened to except the one who should be. the idiots and conservatives are playing the poor tribal card- what these tribals has done to us to India. nothing.

practice subsistence farming, hunt in jungles. no economic contribution comes from them. even in case of forest conservation and wildlife protection they are retarded fellas. they are just occupying space and nothing else. they should be relocated as per the requirement and not as per their demands.
if medha patekar and all crappy people needs to have voting done over the project by the affected people then whole India should be put for voting as that power will come to me also. why only a selected target group or subjects are put up for voting drama. the customer for power are also the affected group.
put these jungle people in factories so that they can add to our gdp.

 

[ace009]

in India every one is listened to except the one who should be. the idiots and conservatives are playing the poor tribal card- what these tribals has done to us to India. nothing.

practice subsistence farming, hunt in jungles. no economic contribution comes from them. even in case of forest conservation and wildlife protection they are retarded fellas. they are just occupying space and nothing else. they should be relocated as per the requirement and not as per their demands.
if medha patekar and all crappy people needs to have voting done over the project by the affected people then whole India should be put for voting as that power will come to me also. why only a selected target group or subjects are put up for voting drama. the customer for power are also the affected group.
put these jungle people in factories so that they can add to our gdp.

Your heartless rant was an eye-opener for me - I find it hard to believe that people in India are this ill-informed.

but here it goes - "the idiots and conservatives are playing the poor tribal card- what these tribals has done to us to India. nothing."

What have they done wrong? They are relatively defenseless people, who have never gone out to harm anyone. Their lands have been taken away successively over generations by invaders - Indo-europeans (Aryans) and their descendants, Muslim invaders, British - whenever the urban or agricultural population has expanded and needed land, the tribals have been pushed out of their ancestral lands and forced into less productive/ forested lands. Since the tribals were mostly hunter-gatherers, their land never "belonged" to them, land ownership being associated with agriculture. So, from their point of view, if you look at us, the agricultural people, then we overproduce, over-indulge, over-reproduce and as a result, need more and more land. Hell, our agricultural practices have become so bad that over the years more and more land is turning "fallow" and as someone mentioned "useless". So, just as the tribal people have done nothing "good" - if by good you mean building factories and producing tonns of food, they also have done nothing wrong.

As for all of you ranting against the environmentalists - although I do not support the "professional ones", without proper environmental protection, India will look more and more like Urban China - black smoke-filled, smoggy, polluted rivers, polluted lands at a closer look, seems like a hellscape waiting to be unleashed.

India is mismanaged at all levels - power generation is just one of them.

Do you know that most developed countries do not build coal-powered plants anymore? No matter how much coal they have. India still does. Most developed countries build gas-turbines or alternative power sources. India does not.
One of the reasons power generation is so low in India is because there is no competition - And for most of the country, there is no private sector.
In the rural areas, power transmission is BAD, losses are high - as much as 40% losses in most areas. Old equipment, bad infrastructure, corruption and red tape at PSUs are the main reasons. Another reason is because people, YES, I meant it, average Indian people, especially in the rural area, still think that power is a cheap resource to be easily provided by the government. Most of them do not even want to pay the real price for it. They will use a "hook" to steal power rather than pay for it. The police are corrupt and since most of the local landlords steal power to feed their farm equipment, there is no chance that the power company will ever recover those losses.

So, in a nutshell, before blaming politicians (who are definitely guilty of corruption and lack of planning), point the fingers at Indians too (which is hard - right?) - we want things for free, we won't stop stealing and we blame the poorest people for our problems, when the root causes are ourselves.

 

[Daredevil]

When did this thread became a topic of Indian power sector? Please stay on topic. Open another thread on Indian power sector if you want to discuss this.

 

[agentperry]

tribals need to get aside. its called rehabilitation.
environment- its protected thru nuke plants, that black smoke u r talking about.
power to a hamlet of 200 or 300 people or families is not a feasible option. you cant spend 200-300 crores on transmission line, distribution office and transformer for them they need solar lighting or biogas electrification.
India needs 400000 mw of power if we need to make it grow by the way we want-9% and every person given power.

if these tribals got dislocated due to invasions then they should be bought back to mainstream by putting them next to us, not leaving them with their forests.

we need to make some serious decisions. 51% of land is under cultivation. forest covers-the dense one is 21%. then we have desert and mountains and wasteland. we need to take care of 1.2 billion ppl with some of the largest herds of cows and buffaloes population, not to mention other domesticated animals.

so mr ace. what do you think these 400000 scattered land holders should be given a free hand. govt dont have land. the best way to put up a nuke plant without any risk( in case fukushima or chernobyl occur) is to make it in inaccessible areas or such isolated areas.

regarding power theft & free power- there is no force for people's protection and you are telling about the new task force for catching culprits. not possible in near future. the ethics of people have gone down and by the time we take them up high again there should be some alternative for eco growth.

would you had same reply if they-tribals hold land for defence purpose. as many people are protesting army/bro making roads in mountain in NE

 

[Bangalorean]

When did this thread became a topic of Indian power sector? Please stay on topic. Open another thread on Indian power sector if you want to discuss this.

Yes - the posts need to be moved into a new thread. The discussion on tribals and environment will go on for some pages, i think.

 

[ace009]

tribals need to get aside. its called rehabilitation.
environment- its protected thru nuke plants, that black smoke u r talking about.
power to a hamlet of 200 or 300 people or families is not a feasible option. you cant spend 200-300 crores on transmission line, distribution office and transformer for them they need solar lighting or biogas electrification.
India needs 400000 mw of power if we need to make it grow by the way we want-9% and every person given power.

if these tribals got dislocated due to invasions then they should be bought back to mainstream by putting them next to us, not leaving them with their forests.

we need to make some serious decisions. 51% of land is under cultivation. forest covers-the dense one is 21%. then we have desert and mountains and wasteland. we need to take care of 1.2 billion ppl with some of the largest herds of cows and buffaloes population, not to mention other domesticated animals.

so mr ace. what do you think these 400000 scattered land holders should be given a free hand. govt dont have land. the best way to put up a nuke plant without any risk( in case fukushima or chernobyl occur) is to make it in inaccessible areas or such isolated areas.

regarding power theft & free power- there is no force for people's protection and you are telling about the new task force for catching culprits. not possible in near future. the ethics of people have gone down and by the time we take them up high again there should be some alternative for eco growth.

would you had same reply if they-tribals hold land for defence purpose. as many people are protesting army/bro making roads in mountain in NE

I would love to reply to each and every asinine comments you have made - but I agree, this is OT.

Mods - can you please move these discussions to a new thread about Indian power generation situation and /or tribal problems?

 

[thakur_ritesh]

new thread is created, please continue the discussion.

 

[ace009]

tribals need to get aside. its called rehabilitation.
environment- its protected thru nuke plants, that black smoke u r talking about.
power to a hamlet of 200 or 300 people or families is not a feasible option. you cant spend 200-300 crores on transmission line, distribution office and transformer for them they need solar lighting or biogas electrification.
India needs 400000 mw of power if we need to make it grow by the way we want-9% and every person given power.

Rehabilitation? Have you ever seen what happens in "rehabilitation" - let me give you an example, the Supreme court admonished the state and central governments for NOT rehabilitating dam affected people - like this ..

India Together: Narmada dams rehabilitation scam exposed - 13 April 2005

http://planningcommission.nic.in/reports/articles/ncsxna/art_dam.pdf

In our country, between bad policy, lack of accountability, corruption and mindless rhetoric, poor adivasis NEVER get rehabilitation.
It's all so nice to talk about "for greater good" and "social causes" and "for the interest of the nation" - but when it some down to the spades and boots, the spades dig the graves of poor people and the boots trample on their bones.

Somehow your solutions sound more and more like Europe between the two wars where forced mass exodus and elimination of communities were a common belief.
What have we learnt from the 1930-1940s Europe?
A nation is not made by sparkling towers, warships or cricket teams - a nation is made by the people in it and the respect that we are ready to give each other. The 400000 small landholders you dismiss so easily are just representative of India's tribal population, which is about 9% of all Indians. 400000 is a large number - no matter how casually you send them off in your post.

Environment protected through nuclear plants? What are you? Insane? Do you know Chernobyl? Three Mile island? What happened to Japan this year after a Tsunami at Fukushima daichii?

Nuclear power plants are ONLY safe if they are built far away from locality (read atleast 30 miles away - of the 30+ nuclear plants being planned in India, how many are located like that? Probably 10%, if any.

if these tribals got dislocated due to invasions then they should be bought back to mainstream by putting them next to us, not leaving them with their forests.

we need to make some serious decisions. 51% of land is under cultivation. forest covers-the dense one is 21%. then we have desert and mountains and wasteland. we need to take care of 1.2 billion ppl with some of the largest herds of cows and buffaloes population, not to mention other domesticated animals.

so mr ace. what do you think these 400000 scattered land holders should be given a free hand. govt dont have land. the best way to put up a nuke plant without any risk( in case fukushima or chernobyl occur) is to make it in inaccessible areas or such isolated areas.

regarding power theft & free power- there is no force for people's protection and you are telling about the new task force for catching culprits. not possible in near future. the ethics of people have gone down and by the time we take them up high again there should be some alternative for eco growth.

would you had same reply if they-tribals hold land for defence purpose. as many people are protesting army/bro making roads in mountain in NE

if the government needs the tribal held lands for national defense - in peacetime, then my argument will be the same - first build a new village for them, then give them adequate infrastructure for a livelihood, then relocate them with their consent. that is a civilized thing to do and a democratic thing to do. Otherwise we are no better than our enemies and our values are as bad as theirs.
In wartime, emergency evacuations are different, but then again, you cannot evacuate them to a desert or a marshland (unless that's what they want).

Anyway, I will love to coninue this discussion later, but my advice is, try to put yourself in their shoes and imagine how your life would be - imagine if you lived in a part of India where China invades and decides to displace all Indians to put in their people ....