Indian Ocean Developments

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by S.A.T.A, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,673
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    Location:
    Gangtok, Sikkim, India
    Let's see...We created Bangladesh. Without us, they would still be getting brutalized by Pakistani Army for speaking Bengali and not Urdu.

    Now about SL. The reason why LTTE was created was because SL allowed Pak ships to be refueled during wartime with us and also allowed US stations during cold war against us.

    Funny you say that after the anger you share with Koreans and Japanese for doing something similar.


    You are most welcome to try. Your carrots seem to be going really sour since SEA countries seem to be approaching us more despite your generous "presence" among them.

    Come on, whom are you kidding mate? As a big player you know the truth and we know the truth. This is something you won't be able to deny:

    - Pakistan:

    A straight highway into middle east for your goods to go through. Nothing more, nothing less. A failed state wrought with terrorism both for itself and for the entire region, the country has nothing to offer you except maybe some rich raw mineral resources for your mining companies.

    Your CCP bosses know damn well that no amount of infrastructure will be ever productive in a country that is neck-deep in fundamentalist lunacy. Your leaders also know that none of the soft loans you extend to them will ever return to China in total principle amount terms. So you're leveraging strategically. That is all.

    Nothing brotherly here. It is just that emotionally imbalanced Pakistanis fall head-over heels for you that's all. And the Dragon knows how to exploit an emotionally immature and imbalanced population like that.

    Nepal

    2 things: Cultivation of Communist terrorism and fundamentalism and containing both us and Tibetan refugees who flood into India through Nepal.
    They are neither culturally linked to you (they are, to us) nor any emotional or ideological support. CCP mantra: grab de-ranged lunatics like Prachanda, feed him and control the nation.

    Nepal, unfortunately for you, isn't that simple.

    Bangladesh

    Exploit their Hindu/Buddhist hatred. The tensions between us and that failed state is that they are over populated and fundamentalist and have nothing good to do in their country. So they come flooding here. We tell them but they don't listen so we shoot them. You find this a perfect wedge.

    Of course, opportunism is not bad and is strategically good.

    Sri Lanka

    Same old ASEAN formula: create a stooge, feed him and get him to wield tyrannical powers so that he can continue to be loyal to you. Just like what USA does.


    But remember, by taming these nations against us, you are simply losing a much better prospective partner who is strong enough to be independent, is not a drain on your resources and has an ancestral relationship: us.

    Remember, failed states like Pakistan and Bangladesh are going to fall. But only you are losing the benefit of our friendship for these who have no use to you.
     
    mayfair likes this.
  2. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,086
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Location:
    Delhi
    I would like to add few more points beside Tshering explanation.

    Our neighbours are mostly failed nations whereas China neighbours are mostly developed or growing quite well.

    Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and even Nepal, Myanmar are in Top 30 Failed nations.

    Failed state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    We have more advantage from friendship with Japan, S.K., Vietnam, Taiwan, Philippines and Singapore compare with China will gain from countries like Pakistan, BD and SL. Indeed, China is losing support of South Asian power India which will be 3rd largest economy in next few years.

    SL and BD going against India in favour of China is like Mongolia attacking China with Indian support. :p

    Out of G-20 major economies. 19 are already against China or U.S. allies.

    G-20 major economies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  3. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    17
    If as u said, 19 of g20 against China or US allies , and India have more great friends?

    Then , why China is rising and India still can't produce rifles.LOL

     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  4. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,528
    Likes Received:
    2,485
    make seuth project reality and that would take care of srilanka
     
  5. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,086
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Location:
    Delhi
    Friendship has nothing to do in making Rifles. Or is it CPC new definition ? That is different story that we are actually making ATV, Aircraft carrier, AWACS, ABM, Aircraft.

    China is 2nd largest economy and far ahead than Modern Korea still you don't have any product like LG and Samsung. 30 years of double digit growth and China don't have any International brand which reaches 100 countries and everyone aware of such product. How ironic and surprising?

    BTW, This is not about comparison of cheap Chinese products with High quality stuff but strategic alliance and having more support in which China is far behind than countries like Indonesia and Malaysia forget about India !!
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  6. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    17
    AtV, AC, AWACS......,where are they.LOL
    They will end up like INSAS .

    International brand is good thing, but not the most important thing. LG, sum sang ,those brands will dead in a day after a attack by NK.

    Strategic alliance? Who? How can they help u, when PLA teach u new lesson? LOL


     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  7. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    5,932
    Likes Received:
    7,597
    Well since INSAS is the most widely deployed gun in India with exports to a few countries I hope our AWACS and ATVs do end up like INSAS.
    Whats up with that Casino you turned into an Aircraft Carrier, btw? or was it the other way round?

    Same with Lenovo and Huawei . Heed your own advice and watch where you step.

    Vietnam for one. The rest depend on how you guys behave. Capiche?
     
  8. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,086
    Likes Received:
    3,914
    Location:
    Delhi
    Is this your best way to elaborate ?

    DRDO AEW&CS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Indian Ballistic Missile Defense Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Arihant class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Vikrant class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas

    All ATV, AC, AWACS, Aircraft and ABM are in final phase of development and mostly all are in trial stage. By 2014-2015, All will be inducted. There are many dedicated threads on that. Kindly, check all latest news and 100's of successful testing. We don't hide whether success or failure. India is not China. :nono:

    Strategic Alliance - Russia, Israel, A'than. We have strong relation with Europe and soon Australia and U.S. will be also there. We also have good relation with CAR nations, Middle-east and your neighbours.

    -Malaysia is buying Brahmos for Su30.
    -Vietnam has offered Naval base to us.
    -Currently, Singapore Airforce is in India for joint Air force exercise.
    -Australia MoD is in India for Alliance of Indo-Aus in Defence and not to forget they are ready to sell Uranium.
    -Japan, Taiwan, Philippines and S.K are also there with us and they are Anti-China. [They are U.S. allies nevertheless]
    -We have good relation Russia/Mongolia/CAR nations too.

    What you have ?? Pakistan......That's it. A certified terrorist country. SL, Bangladesh will never go against India due to whatever reason you can imagine.

    PLA will lose her pant once you do any misadventures. In 1962, We were not prepared enough due to Nehru soft power. Then we retained Sikkim and we had small conflict like Nathu La and Chola La and won both times. Vietnam and Taiwan also gave you hard times for last 50 years. In last 45 years, you don't have major combat experience and lost mostly even it was small and we facing almost war every decade and winning too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_incident

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathu_La

    How you gonna win against so many countries combined not to forget U.S. + Europe ?? We are capable enough to face China as Tiger is fact and Dragon is just myth. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  9. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    17
    the casino ship is a good example for our engineers, u will see more and larger AC coming out very soon.

    Having International brand is good thing , but is not priority for China right now.

    Vietnam will give up their own life to help u? I dont think so.LOL


     
  10. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    17
    Import more rifles and guns before u try to facing China.(don't forget bullets )LOL


     
  11. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    5,932
    Likes Received:
    7,597
    Lol, whatever happened to Chinese ingenuity?

    You mean IAC 1 Vikrant?

    Not to help us, to help themselves. Against you.
     
  12. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    17
    I don't think India can produce the steel for vibrant.LOL



     
  13. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,316
    Likes Received:
    8,334
    Location:
    011
    Indian Ocean Region : Chinese Strategic Thinking & How Should India respond

    INDIAN OCEAN REGION: CHINESE STRATEGIC THINKING


    China’s official Xinhua news agency disseminated the following report on December 12,2011:
    “China said on Monday that its naval fleet may seek supplies or recuperate at appropriate harbors in Seychelles or other countries as needed during escort missions.
    “It is international practice for naval fleets to resupply at the closest port of a nearby state during long-distance missions, the Ministry of National Defense said in a press release commenting on a recent report stating that China will establish a military base in Seychelles to crack down on piracy.
    “Chinese naval fleets have resupplied at harbors in Djibouti, Oman and Yemen since the country sent its first convoy to the Gulf of Aden in 2008, according to the ministry
    “Defense Minister Liang Guanglie paid an official goodwill visit to Seychelles earlier this month.
    “During Liang's visit, the two sides exchanged views on their countries' and armies' cooperation, as well as on the global and regional situation.
    “Seychelles appreciates China's efforts to maintain safe navigation on the Indian Ocean, as well as the support it has granted to Seychelles, the ministry said.

    “Seychelles also invited China's navy to resupply and recuperate in the country during escort missions, the ministry said.”

    2. An article carried the next day by the “China Daily” said:
    “The navy is considering taking on supplies in the Seychelles while conducting escort missions to tackle piracy.
    “Military experts stressed that the move did not equate to establishing military bases.
    “"According to escort needs and the needs of other long-range missions, China will consider seeking supply facilities at appropriate harbors in the Seychelles or other countries," the Ministry of Defense said in a statement on its website on Monday.
    “The statement was in response to a recent report that the Seychelles invited China to establish a military base in the Indian Ocean archipelago to crack down on piracy during a visit by Defense Minister Liang Guanglie, the first by a Chinese defense minister, earlier this month.
    “The Press Trust of India news agency later interpreted this as Beijing reneging on its promise not to build military bases abroad.
    “Li Jie, a professor at the Naval Military Studies Research Institute, told China Daily "as China will not send troops to protect the supply stop in the Seychelles, by no means can it be called an overseas military base".
    “Beijing has repeatedly confirmed that its policy of not stationing troops abroad will not be altered. It stands alone among the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council in not having overseas bases.
    “Due to anti-piracy missions off the coast of Somalia, it is only natural for Beijing to ensure naval supplies, Li said.”
    “Peng Guangqian, a Beijing-based military strategist, said facilities allowing ships to take on supplies cannot be called military bases because "China respects the host's sovereignty and internal politics, and no political conditions are attached".
    “"Besides, it will be solely used for logistics and supplies," he added.
    “Li Qinggong, deputy secretary of the China Council for National Security Policy Studies, said that any arrangements over the use of facilities will be mutually beneficial with jobs provided for people in the Seychelles and the navy better able to protect China's growing overseas interests.”

    3. MY COMMENTS: Chinese naval ships on long-range anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden area do need ports of call for re-stocking, re-fuelling and rest and recreation facilities. Initially, they were using the Karachi port. They have stopped doing so for some months now due to the poor security situation in Karachi, which was highlighted by a terrorist attack on the Pakistani naval air base in May last. They are not going ahead with their original plans for the upgradation of the Gwadar port into a naval base due to the poor security situation in Balochistan.

    4.They are, therefore, now looking for such facilities in safe Gulf ports and may start using Hambantota in Sri Lanka once it is ready for receiving Chinese naval vessels. The Chinese have never made any secret of their interest in port calls in the Indian Ocean area for availing of such facilities. Because of the long distance involved from the waters of China to the patrolling areas in the Gulf of Aden their requirements for re-stocking, re-fuelling and rest and recreation are natural and genuine.

    5. I understand that as a confidence-building measure, the Indian Navy had also invited Chinese naval vessels returning from anti-piracy patrols to make a port call at Kochi. This was a good initiative which I support. While we must carefully monitor the movements and interests of the Chinese Navy in the Indian Ocean area, we should avoid the kind of paranoia created by the ill-advised PTI report.

    6. In a paper presented at a seminar organised by the National Maritime Foundation at Vizag in July last, I had stated as follows: “The indications are that China’s interest in helping the countries of the South Asian region in the development of their port infrastructure is related to its need to ensure the security of its energy supplies from West Asia and Africa. It has no naval power projection dimension at present.

    7. Till now, the main driver of China’s strategic interest in Gwadar, Hambantota and Chittagong has been the perceived need for refuelling, re-stocking and rest and recreation facilities for its oil/gas tankers and naval ships deputed for anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden area. China is not yet interested in an overseas naval base, but is interested in overseas logistic facilities for its oil/gas tankers and for its naval vessels.

    8.Individual retired officers of the People’s Liberation Army (Navy) have been talking of the likely long-term need for an overseas naval base in the Indian Ocean area, but the Communist Party of China (CPC) has been discouraging such talk. Presently, the Chinese interest in playing a role in the development of the port infrastructure is not designed to place its Navy in a position as to be able to challenge the primacy presently enjoyed by the Navies of the US and India in the Indian Ocean region.

    9. China has seen as to how the over-assertiveness of its Navy in the South China Sea has had a negative impact on the comfort level of its relations with the ASEAN countries. The Indian Ocean is not comparable to the South China Sea. China has no territorial claims to islands in the Indian Ocean area. It has no disputes relating to fishing and exploration of oil and gas with any of the countries of the Indian Ocean region. China and its Navy are, therefore, welcomed by the countries of the region. This comfortable position could change if China graduates from energy security to power projection in its strategic planning for the Indian Ocean region.

    10. I do not expect this to happen in the short and medium terms (five to 10 years). However, if the Chinese strategic thinking changes in the long-term, what could be the new threats to India and what will be the options for our Navy? We have to start thinking on this.( China’s Strategic Eggs in South Asia

    11. While reiterating this assessment, I must highlight that there has recently been important statements and comments by President Hu Jintao and Chinese analysts on the need to give priority to further strengthening the Chinese Navy. My present assessment is that these comments are related to the recent re-assertion of the US primacy in the Pacific and the greater interest taken by the US in the South China Sea. They do not seem to be related to Chinese perceptions of any new core interests they may develop in the Indian Ocean region.

    12. Presently, they have core concerns in the Indian Ocean area arising from the activities of the Somali pirates and likely threats to their energy security from pirates and terrorists. They have no core interests in the Indian Ocean area, but developing a capability for power projection in the Indian Ocean to counter the renewed US power projection in the Pacific could become a driving force of their strategic vision in the Indian Ocean region. We need to closely monitor the evolution of Chinese strategic thinking in this regard.

    Raman's strategic analysis: INDIAN OCEAN REGION: CHINESE STRATEGIC THINKING
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,926
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    China Base a Threat to India Navy?

    China Base a Threat to India Navy? | The Diplomat

    There’s been much talk in the media of an apparent offer by the Seychelles of a base for Chinese ships deployed to the Gulf of Aden and the West Indian Ocean, to help combat piracy. While it’s not yet clear if the offer has been accepted, Chinese media reports suggest that Beijing is actively considering it as a “resupply” base.

    China’s Foreign Ministry was quick to state that Beijing isn’t contemplating a military base in for the Seychelles, adding that it wouldn’t “violate” its traditional policy of “not stationing troops abroad.” Still, China's quest for a foothold in the Indian Ocean isn’t a recent development – and it’s one that India needs to watch carefully.

    China began pursuing its so-called “String of Pearls” strategy in the Indian Ocean in 2001 via the commercial route, constructing the Gwadar port. Subsequently, China won contracts to construct ports at Hambantota on the southern tip of Sri Lanka, Chittagong in Bangladesh and Kyaukpyu on the east coast of Burma in the Arabian Sea.

    The Seychelles is a small island country in the Indian Ocean comprising a group of 115 small islands covering an area about 450 kilometers square. The country has a population of just 87,000, but has a huge Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) of 1.4 million square kilometers. The country’s strategic importance can be traced back to the Napoleonic era, when Britain gained control over the island. Much more recently, the U.S. originally intended to develop a base on the Seychelles’ Aldabra Island, but intense pressure from conservationists prevailed, and the United States instead went with Diego Garcia.

    China, though, despite having diplomatic relations with the Seychelles dating back to 1976, showed little interest in the country until President Hu Jintao visited in 2007. During Hu’s trip, no less than five bilateral agreements were signed on economic and technical cooperation, education and investment promotion. Hu’s visit for the first time clearly signaled China’s strategic interests in the region.

    Last week, Chinese Defense Minister Gen. Liang Guanglie led a 40-member military delegation to the Seychelles – a big enough group to suggest that Beijing is keen to shore up plans for an active presence for the People’s Liberation Army in the near future. As part of developing military ties, China gifted the Seychelles People's Defense Forcestwo Y-12 aircraft for surveillance and anti-piracy duties. China is also reportedly training 50 SPDF soldiers in China as part of a military cooperation agreement signed in 2004.

    All of this will be of particular interest to India. India has actively supported the Seychelles by helping train the SPDF, and has provided a Dornier aircraft, two Chetek helicopters (1981 vintage) and a fast attack craft. Indian ships regularly visit Victoria, and have been active in combating piracy in the waters around the Seychelles. The Indian foreign and defense ministers, meanwhile, visited the Seychelles in 2010, underlining the importance New Delhi places on having friendly relations with the country.

    With this in mind, it’s clear that the Chinese naval presence in this part of the Indian Ocean is not in India's interest. But what’s China’s interest in establishing a base in the Seychelles?

    For a start, it satisfies China’s hunger for a firm foothold in the Indian Ocean. The Seychelles provides the PLA Navy an ideal platform from which to counter any threat to its sea lines of communication from Africa by the U.S. Navy operating out of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean region. In addition, to assist with the resupply, rest and refit of PLAN ships undertaking anti-piracy duties in the region, China requires a large logistics depot, which can be supplied by air and merchant/naval ships. The Seychelles base could therefore eventually be developed into a permanent naval base.
     
  15. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,984
    Likes Received:
    786
    How thoughtless is Seychelles to faciliate China to threaten India by offering a anti-piracy naval base?

    A lot of pirates in India?
     
  16. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,692
    Likes Received:
    17,891
    We need to change our Nuclear doctrine to say that India will retaliation/counter attack on enemy bases/
    facilities anywhere in the world
    . This statement will go long way in preventing any kind of nuclear war with Indian's enemies. String of Pearls, will be broken with little statement like that in our nuclear doctrine.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,673
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    Location:
    Gangtok, Sikkim, India
    To have that kind of statement giving power we need a few things:

    - Political will
    - Political dedication
    - Terrific and rapid manufacturing capability
    - No hesitation in pursuing selfish-national interests
    - Ability to pass defense bills at lightning speeds.

    However looking at artillery, Rupee's free fall and MRCA deals you can judge why we are unable to do this.


    As for China having an anti-Piracy base, they are not going to do anything more than that there. What's more closer to IOR? us or them? Do you seriously think Chinese ships will threaten IN in IOR?

    Whatever frigates and ships and left of Seychelles will go down if they ever conducted war from there.

    Cutting things short: Chinese are just playing mind games. They cannot and will not attack anybody from there.
     
  18. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    4,095
    Location:
    India
    Positive development

    ----------------

    India will work with Seychelles against piracy, terror

    The Hindu : News / National : India will work with Seychelles against piracy, terror: President
     
  19. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,060
    Likes Received:
    2,291
  20. Debashish Jena

    Debashish Jena New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    FIRST OF ALL, DON'T COMPARE CHINA WITH INDIA.....CHINA IS A COMMUNIST STATE,SO IT WILL OBVIOUSLY DEVELOP FASTER THAN INDIA......IN INDIA , A CERTAIN DECISION TAKES TIME TO IMPLEMENT BUT ATLEAST WE LIVE FREE AND HAVE OUR CHOICES UNLIKE YOU GUYS BEING A SLAVE OF THE GOVERNMENT(FEELS LIKE A TRAP).....HERE, INDIVIDUALS HAVE RIGHTS AND THEIR DIGNITY UNLIKE ROTTING LIKE YOU GUYS......WE FEEL PROUD TO LIVE IN A DEMOCRATIC,SECULAR,MULTILINGUAL,UNITED REPUBLIC OF INDIA.:india:
     

Share This Page