Indian Nuclear test Was Secret Project

[no smoking]

Your comparison Is Wrong So the Primary Prototype Devices Which Meant for test Purposes.It Common IQ Military version Warhead Will be Heavily modified Version
I Mentioned It in My post

IF You compare Size of Even Prototype Device With W88 warhead its Almost Seminar in Size And Weight

Picture Shakti-1 Thermonuclear Prototype Device During 1998 Tests

On contrary, your pictures prove exactly what I said.

Picture of the so called "Shakti-1" is a nuclear explosive device only. The picture of W88 is a RV including not only nuclear explosive device, but also other components such as flying control system, navigation system and most importantly a thick shell, etc.

Have a look of Chinese first H-bomb airdropped in 1967

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_457_1393.html#p=1

So, you can see India's device is even bigger than an airdrop H-bomb. Guess how many years it took Chinese to get their device small enough fit into a MIRV(still quite larger than W88)? 20 years.

 

[WARREN SS]

Picture of the so called "Shakti-1" is a nuclear explosive device only. The picture of W88 is a RV including not only nuclear explosive device, but also other components such as flying control system, navigation system and most importantly a thick shell, etc.

So your Comparing a Prototype Device to a A Full Fledged RV The RVs of India Already Posted Above


Public information and trade estimates indicate following types of Indian RV warheads:

1. Mk-4: For light weight 17Kt Fusion Boosted Fission (FBF) warhead5. Mass6: ~180 Kg7.
2. Mk-5: For 50Kt FBF or 200Kt Thermo Nuclear (TN) warhead8. Mass: ~340 Kg
3. Mk-6: For 150Kt FBF warhead 9. Mass: ~550 Kg.

Agni 3 range with MK4 RV is over 5,000km but with MK5 or MK6 is shortened to 3,000 to 5,000km range

the MK2 RV is the one used on the Agni 2

visible on Agni 2 right here RV on Top During Tests

Key Features of the Agni-RV Mk 2

1. The manoeuvring fins that allows it to;
   • Execute a non-ballistic trajectory to make interception more difficult.
   • Overcome any perturbation due to high altitude atmospheric disturbance.
   • Enable use of body lift at hypersonic velocity to glide the missile over longer ranges, thus reducing the thermal and physical stress at a modified Max-Q point.
   • Trajectory error to be determined late into the flight and corrected using aerodynamic force during re-entry.
   • Terminal manoeuvre dive for a more acute target interdiction angle, reducing the CEP (Circular Error Probable).
   • Support a wider range of payload weight and configuration.
2. Integrated velocity correction package for greater precision; has a set of solid fuelled cartridge(s) that are used to correct impulse variances of solid fuelled stages and subtle launch trajectory perturbation.
3. Integrated High Altitude Motor (HAM) which is liquid fuelled. Depending on the actual payload configuration, the HAM fuel load can be increased to trade range for a lighter and more compact weapon.
4. Larger internal volume allows more sophisticated ABM (anti-ballistic missile) counter-measures.

Have a look of Chinese first H-bomb airdropped in 1967

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_457_1393.html#p=1

So, you can see India's device is even bigger than an airdrop H-bomb. Guess how many years it took Chinese to get their device small enough fit into a MIRV(still quite larger than W88)? 20 years.

Comparing Air Drop Version With Prototype Underground version What Waste Are Fanboy or what ???
Both have different Way of testing

This What Indian Barc Scientist Kakodkar said

In other words,the S1 is the thermonuclear device that was tested . So , after the test, the S1 ( it's military designation will be different) became India's thermonuclear weapon.
NOW, Read the second controversy of INDIA not carrying out enough nuclear tests to get all the data required to design a Thermonuclear weapon , fact remains that with the advent of Scalable supercomputer clustering , nuclear explosions can be Simulated down to the molecular level. Therefore , India does not need to carry out as many nuclear tests as the P-5 members did in the 60s and 70s unless of course India wants to drastically change the physical and mathematical models that describe the nuclear explosion that is being simulated. This is because throwing more computing resources at a simulation whose fundamental equations are flawed will not improve the accuracy of the solution.

 

[no smoking]

So your Comparing a Prototype Device to a A Full Fledged RV The RVs of India Already Posted Above


Public information and ......

What public information? Where is the photo of India's MIRV? When did India test its MIRV?

Therefore , India does not need to carry out as many nuclear tests as the P-5 members did in the 60s and 70s unless of course India wants to drastically change the physical and mathematical models that describe the nuclear explosion that is being simulated. This is because throwing more computing resources at a simulation whose fundamental equations are flawed will not improve the accuracy of the solution.

If anyone tell you that they can get enough data from only 1 test. He is talking shit.

 

[sasum]

DRDO has not tested MIRV on its own, but it can access ISRO's engineering. Multiple satellites have been released by ISRO in pre-predetermined orbits from a single launch vehicle, much like MIRV. Only thing remains is heat-shield. That shouldn't be a big deterrent.

If anyone tell you that they can get enough data from only 1 test. He is talking shit.

That is true.

 

[WARREN SS]

What public information? Where is the photo of India's MIRV? When did India test its MIRV?

Photo American Released Photo of their Warheads After in Late 90s Its a classified Information Do you seen MIRV warhead of France Or Britain We not even chinese warhead Designs Yet

If anyone tell you that they can get enough data from only 1 test. He is talking shit.

Yeah He Head Scientistific research in Barc in India do you even read What he Said Or Don't
He Said The Perimeters Of Developing And Modifying Nuclear Data is Changed from 60's And 70s

In Modern World Due Know India Is only nation after P 5 to develop Nuclear Submarine
and SSBN

 

[WARREN SS]

That is true.

No its not It Was Relevant in 70s And 80s When Modern computing Was Primitive No its Different Level
With modern Supercomputing if that Reality We might Not have Developed Nuclear Submarines

 

[sasum]

No its not It Was Relevant in 70s And 80s When Modern computing Was Primitive No its Different Level
With modern Supercomputing if that Reality We might Not have Developed Nuclear Submarines

Are you sure "we" developed Nuclear Submarine? CAD is just one part of defence tech. Most important is metallurgy and material science, where computer algorithm has little role to play. Even MIRV and thermonuclear device need many specialised materials which are not available locally.

 

[WARREN SS]

Are you sure "we" developed Nuclear Submarine? CAD is just one part of defence tech. Most important is metallurgy and material science, where computer algorithm has little role to play. Even MIRV and thermonuclear device need many specialised materials which are not available locally.

I don't by conspiracy theories thrown by Bloggers
Well I have Enough Confidence in BARC they are countering and challenging Any things on Scientific facts Not Conspiracy theories
If you read My Post including on K. Santhanam claims Which have not Scientific Facts
I even posted Field evaluation Report of the 1998 Test of BARC What Kakodkar Said

Please Specify Materials

 

[sasum]

I don't by conspiracy theories thrown by Bloggers

Father of Arihant is Russia. The miniature reactor was a Russian gift. The hull made by L&T was with the help of foreign experts.
I have neither time nor inclination to rummage through tons of old materials which are available in public domain. If you read columns of eminent defence experts like Ajay Shukla, Bharat Karnad or followed essays published in reputed journals like Jane's, you would've known. There is no conspiracy to malign indigenous capability. There are threads in this Forum where you can find lots of material on these topics including specialised materials, alloys etc. I advise you to go through posts of @warrior monk and @Gesseler. They upoaded tons of materials in the past on these topics.

 

[WARREN SS]

Father of Arihant is Russia. The miniature reactor was a Russian gift. The hull made by L&T was with the help of foreign experts.

Any authentic Source ???
Journos That to Indian And Forum Gossips of Amateurs Yeah that you called Authentic And Official

PWR building shows indigenous capability, says Kakodkar
"India building an 80 MWe Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) at Kalpakkam near here “marks the beginning of its indigenous PWR capability,” Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) Chairman Anil Kakodkar said on Sunday."

An identical PWR of the same capacity would propel the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant that was launched on July 26. The two PWRs were built by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC). Enriched uranium would fuel them, and light water was both coolant and moderator. The Rare Materials Project at Ratnahalli, near Mysore,

On Sunday, reporters were shown the PWR built on a beachhead at Kalpakkam. The reactor, built under a highly secretive project called Plutonium Recyling Project (PRP), has been operating from September 2006. The non-descript PRP building has the display of a sculpture of a dolphin outside.

https://web.archive.org/web/2009080...om:80/2009/08/03/stories/2009080353810100.htm

 

[sasum]

Any authentic Source ???
Journos That to Indian And Forum Gossips of Amateurs Yeah that you called Authentic And Official

PWR building shows indigenous capability, says Kakodkar
"India building an 80 MWe Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) at Kalpakkam near here “marks the beginning of its indigenous PWR capability,” Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) Chairman Anil Kakodkar said on Sunday."

An identical PWR of the same capacity would propel the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant that was launched on July 26. The two PWRs were built by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC). Enriched uranium would fuel them, and light water was both coolant and moderator. The Rare Materials Project at Ratnahalli, near Mysore,

On Sunday, reporters were shown the PWR built on a beachhead at Kalpakkam. The reactor, built under a highly secretive project called Plutonium Recyling Project (PRP), has been operating from September 2006. The non-descript PRP building has the display of a sculpture of a dolphin outside.

https://web.archive.org/web/2009080...om:80/2009/08/03/stories/2009080353810100.htm

It is naive to take everything that is said by Heads of Govt. Institutions at face value. They function more as bureaucrats and tell lies..partly at the behest of Cabinet Committee or PM to escape public ire /attention of CAG, Supreme Court etc. and partly to safeguard the reputation of the Institution. Anil Kadodkar is no exception. The pic above you posted was also posted by me in Feb'16 (See the ATV thread). This is just a prototype and never made to go critical.
I upload here extracts from a book without revealing the source.

PS: Now don't tell me Late Praful Bidwai was an amateur blogger.

 

[Chinmoy]

Some interesting thought I've found over in BR forum on this. Would like to share, but hope its already been shared beforehand:

Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

• Quote

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2015 18:17

That book excerpt being quoted as authoritative makes a perfect case of argument from authority. Just because the author is an Admiral, it is held all the statements within are true. A certain amount of gravitas, yes - especially when it comes to things like how the submarine would be used or deployed. Cent per cent accurate when it comes to development? Not certain. Further the author retired from the Indian Navy in 1998. Is he then personally aware of the DAE contribution to the program since it was declassified only a few years back? Clearly not, because he has to rely on several third party sources, one of whom is or should be completely disregarded in terms of any serious study.

But let's see further whom the author cites.

Then there is the statement the reactor was Russian designed. We know know since DAE released details, that is a complete misreading of the situation, to put it lightly. At best the Russians were consultants, but the reactor is Indian designed and developed. But as mentioned before, the details were declassified recently, so it can merely be relying on what's available.

Next, who is quoted? Bidwai, 2009. Praful Bidwai's statements on Indian defence were an exercise in mendacity, less said the better. In short, just because some book says something and some Air Marshal says LCA is American or General says Arjun is German etc.. It doesn't become true!

Lets move to the credible sources cited from the tech side - one of the key ones is Parathasarathi. This is a man who would be in the know of things - assuming it refers to Ashok Parathasarathi. And what does he say - Russians extended assistance over the 25 year program for the Arihant. Read that carefully - thats the entire timeframe from the 1980's, not just 1998 onwards. His statements are credible because he was one of the key gents who was involved with multiple defense programs from the tech transfer, design side & actually worked out such arrangements.

In short, the Russian assistance existed for a long long time, yet it took the DAE so many years to develop the reactor with local industry. Does this sound in any which way like some "Russian designed 83MW reactor" which took 25 years for India to master? In short this is what is referred to as the classic drawback of relying on multiple sources, some of which can be credible and some of which are not - leading to a confused melange of reports which the author then tries to make sense of, but which may not always be accurate.

As regards the depth of Russian support, as I already mentioned, it was especially true for ancillary systems and raw materials. Without that, there would be no Arihant. Question is whether our indigenization program extends beyond the Arihant for the follow on programs.
Last edited by Karan M on 03 Dec 2015 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

Details could be found in:

https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7110&start=200

 

[no smoking]

Photo American Released Photo of their Warheads After in Late 90s Its a classified Information Do you seen MIRV warhead of France Or Britain We not even chinese warhead Designs Yet

At least, we have public information provided by US and Russian regarding France, UK and China's MIRV.
Where is the reports regarding India's MIRV or Minimized warhead? So, did you see anyone talking about acknowledging India's nuclear power status? Why? People still doubt the "success" of India's first H-bomb test except Indian themselves. Oh, even some of your own scientists question that.

Yeah He Head Scientistific research in Barc in India do you even read What he Said Or Don't
He Said The Perimeters Of Developing And Modifying Nuclear Data is Changed from 60's And 70s

In Modern World Due Know India Is only nation after P 5 to develop Nuclear Submarine
and SSBN

Being a top scientist doesn't mean he won't lie especially on such highly strategic sensitive subject. What he said is purely not true. Minimizing a tons weight primitive device into an under 400kg warhead is significant change of every single part of your design. The difference between them is as large as the difference between the world first computer and a PC of 1980s.

 

[no smoking]

DRDO has not tested MIRV on its own, but it can access ISRO's engineering. Multiple satellites have been released by ISRO in pre-predetermined orbits from a single launch vehicle, much like MIRV. Only thing remains is heat-shield. That shouldn't be a big deterrent.

Basically, military department always has better tech than civilians and higher budget.
DRDO already tested a series of missile up to Agni-5, so the heat-shield should already been overcome. The top one challenge is developing a minimized warhead (around 500kg). Indian scientists can't archive that without further nuclear test, no matter how brilliant they are.

 

[WARREN SS]

At least, we have public information provided by US and Russian regarding France, UK and China's MIRV.
Where is the reports regarding India's MIRV or Minimized warhead? So, did you see anyone talking about acknowledging India's nuclear power status? Why? People still doubt the "success" of India's first H-bomb test except Indian themselves. Oh, even some of your own scientists question that.

Which Indian Expert Doubt That Please Specify that

Please Provide Public information for chinese Warheads or france or British warheads
As minimize warheads This technology was almost 60 year old Those Days you will Not expect advantage of Modern Supercomputing in Tests What We have in 2016 You Level of Measuring of both Era is Absurd

Being a top scientist doesn't mean he won't lie especially on such highly strategic sensitive subject. What he said is purely not true. Minimizing a tons weight primitive device into an under 400kg warhead is significant change of every single part of your design. The difference between them is as large as the difference between the world first computer and a PC of 1980s.

Yes india Successfully Done Pathbreaking in its Space and aerospace research PSLV and GSLV and Missile Technology
India already tested Scramjet And Advanced Complex BMD

Nuclear warhead Design of USSR and US are primitive of 70's they regularly upgrade it with Simulations and data records According to Era

What He said Is clearly Understandable if your are Technical expert he said Parameters of Developing Nuclear technology Is Changed With Introduction Modern Technology That's Why more and More nations are Achieving high result in nuclear Technology in recent years

Israel,Iran,Saudis and North korea All are Developing NuKes

 

[sasum]

Basically, military department always has better tech than civilians and higher budget.
DRDO already tested a series of missile up to Agni-5, so the heat-shield should already been overcome. The top one challenge is developing a minimized warhead (around 500kg). Indian scientists can't archive that without further nuclear test, no matter how brilliant they are.

We discussed the same in the thread "Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles (MIRVs)" in May {p.17-20}

 

[spikey360]

Even 200kt won't be enough when we compare to P5.
India must try to make TNWs yields between 1 and 5 MT.

Not necessary. 200-300KT are the most efficient strategic nuclear bombs we need to create. Also note, these are city bombs and not field bombs. We put the warheads into a MIRV configuration with reliable re-entry and navigation systems and well - Suddenly the world is dealing with a nuclear superpower.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Not necessary. 200-300KT are the most efficient strategic nuclear bombs we need to create. Also note, these are city bombs and not field bombs. We put the warheads into a MIRV configuration with reliable re-entry and navigation systems and well - Suddenly the world is dealing with a nuclear superpower.

No man, I'm talking of pride, may be useless pride. If P5 have MT yield bombs, why not us?

 

[sayareakd]

The top one challenge is developing a minimized warhead (around 500kg). Indian scientists can't archive that without further nuclear test, no matter how brilliant they are.

We are going to test soon...............

 

[rishivashista13]

We are going to test soon...............

Not possible ...............

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