Indian nuclear attack on Rawalpindi

dineshchaturvedi

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This is another ambiguity that pakistan has perpetuated successfully..Saudis are equal owners of pkaistani nukes.Pakistani nukes are against israel,india,iran and whole west.dont be surprised if one or two nukes ends up with terrorists too.and this danger is real not a CT.
This idea Pakistan's Nuke can end up being with terrorist is used very loosely. I do not think it can happen so easily. If chances of this happening was felt US will act before India.
 

Tshering22

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^^ That's the problem. Due to lack of money for funds and CIA hawks eyeing down Saudis, the KSA and Pakistan had a secret agreement where Saudi would pour in money and let Pakistan become the "Islamic bomb", a nuclear umbrella that Saudi needed to protect its theocratic influence and dominance in Islamic countries as it feared that its radical philosophy would soon be detected by the West and they would come after them one day or another. So using religion as a source of emotional inspiration to the already-emotionally unstable Pakistanis, they went ahead with supplying funds to Pakistani nuclear scientists who'd already kept the programme in dark by holding all the experiments in secretive China. Documents released in 2009 reported that China had already conducted tests for Pakistan in 1989 and kept them "ready with 1 more test". This is how Pakistan was able to acquire nuclear weapons and "successfully tested" in just a matter of 19 days.

Some Indian apologists and peaceniks feel that by we conducting nuke tests, we made Pakistan nuclear and hence are responsible for this looming threat ourselves; this is what Pakistanis want us to think. The Pakistani nuke was already there courtesy Saudi funds, US Soviet-war misdirected funds and simultaneous assistance of designing delivery systems from North Koreans, that form the founding stone of Pakistani missiles. But it is almost impossible to blame Saudi and include them in this list since they're allowing US to roll over them and hence have US protection.

Our priority for now is to keep all our missiles in ready to attack mode just in case which I am sure the SFC has some clue about. Knowing the suicidal tendencies of Pakistanis this is something SFC must be ready for no matter what politics-hungry babus will claim to appease terrorists and cross-border enemies. The problem is we don't have any nuclear explosive above 300Kt of power, while ALL the P-5 have at least 1-5 Megaton range nuclear explosive. We can certainly afford to carry out simulation tests of nuclear explosion based on the calculations from which we tested in 1998. Since a real test would seal our case in NSG, we need to now go all hi-tech and make sure that we're able to make a Megaton range explosive in short notice.

Our nuclear threat is not just from a suicide-bomber Pakistan but also from an ever-unpredictable China. And Chinese cities are extremely large and therefore 25Kt won't be sufficient. There have been various reports that suggest our nuclear deterrence is not sufficient and that 80-120 warheads we have is not enough. I support this view. We need to have at least 200-300 warheads (equal estimate of PRC arsenal) each beyond 150Kt capacity to yield any significant destruction of enemy forces.
 

Tshering22

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This idea Pakistan's Nuke can end up being with terrorist is used very loosely. I do not think it can happen so easily. If chances of this happening was felt US will act before India.
You rely too much on US government, bro. Remember that Pakistan's nukes getting lose in the hands of Taliban are an immediate threat to us. None of Pakistani missiles can strike US mainland since their range is centered around targeting entire India and possibly Israel. So any danger that comes from a nuclear armed jihad group is first to us then to Israel and finally to the wide world. I am already having my doubts that though Pak Army has the main control of nukes till now--- it is only a matter of chance that 1 or 2 might be let loose. Remember that Pakistan is frustrated because it is not able to keep up with us and is instead going in opposite direction. In frustration and hatred, it can do anything and that is what is the problem.

US knows ALL THE TIME that Pakistan is the cause of terrorism and separatism in Kashmir--even then why do you think it never directly implicated Pakistanis and sanctions them? They're not on their side anymore and US knows that very well. US also knows that secret links between Afghan Taliban and ISI that the latter is not willing to lose for anything since post-USSR war, it found Jihad as an effective tool to fight the superior Indian forces and try "bleeding with thousand cuts". Taliban in short is the second strategic asset that Pakistan has and now after shifting loyalties to China, it will be all the more vehement in saying NOs to US government.

Hence if there is something to be done, it has to be done by us and us only---relying on any other world power is stupid and naive. We've already suffered a lot thanks to the stupid naive attitude Gandhi and Nehru instilled in the thinking of Indian people and the result is the following that we're seeing to date:

1) POK still Pak occupied
2) Kashmir still not recognized by West as Indian
3) Jihad against India still a hush hush around the world
4) China claiming half of our states as if its a pizzeria order.
5) Pakistan continuing its terrorism and ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims in valley through proxies
6) Shaksam Valley being illegally handed to China by General Ayub Khan as a token of servitude and honor for Chinese aggression against India in 1963.

Are we still to follow the ideology of those two people who fooled an entire nation with their Utopian thinking, impractical planning and baseless theories? Wake up fellow Indians.
 

Iamanidiot

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All Paki nukes are Chinese nukes.There is no thing as original Paki nuke.Jehangir Lodhi has written something about Paki nuclear doctrine try to read that
 

Tshering22

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Pakistani love death more than indians love life.....try calling bluff for once.....GOI is more intelligent than the indians in not committing to stupidity of calling pak bluff.
If they can give this sentence to us in written with official stamp of GOP, we could easily forget that we've a no-first-use policy and the world cannot blame us for being genocidal since we'd have an official proof of them loving death more than we loving life. ;-D

The reality is that Pakistan shows more than it actually does anything at all; by showing themselves suicidal and creating a psychological barrier in the minds of enemies is a calculated risk that paid off first time against Soviets in 80s. And since Mujahideen were not bound by any government laws unlike USSR troops, it had a negative impact on the psyche of the latter.

However when situations have become desperate, Indians have been more suicidally ruthless than anyone could ever be. Pakistanis would suffer a nervous breakdown in such a situation. Heard about IA Major. Dhan Singh Thapa? He and his 5 men fought and killed 300 Chinese soldiers by charging them in 1962 before being captured by PLA (and later returned to India as we returned their POWs).
 

neo29

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@maomao

India has 50 to 250 kilo ton nukes. This figure is said by atomic chief. Surely its possible that India has more intensity nukes than mentioned. Whatever may be it is more than enough.
 

Yusuf

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Now I am lost about the objective of this thread. Is it deterrence, pak doctrine, indian doctrine or what? I think a lot has already been talked about it. JP what are you looking for from me??
 

Yusuf

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Guys the pak nukes falling into the hands of Taliban is a good propaganda tool to keep pressure up on pakistan. I have reliably learned that all pak nukes are under twin watch of US and China and both will not want Pak to use it. Chinas sole aim to supply nukes to pak was to keep india under pressure. I really doubt they would want Pak to ever use it.
During Kargil the Americans caught pak thought itself in the bud let alone ready its arsenal. That is the hold the US has and more so now.

Personally Pakistans nuke doctrine is as ambiguous as it can get. They can change their goal post any time. Perhaps to keep india honest. But I also feel that it is a bluff in the end. They will never use their nukes in a war with india. Its a matter of time when someone here calls the bluff.
 

maomao

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@maomao

India has 50 to 250 kilo ton nukes. This figure is said by atomic chief. Surely its possible that India has more intensity nukes than mentioned. Whatever may be it is more than enough.
I can't say anything about 250 Kiloton capacity, however, we even have thermonuclear devices with 40 Kiloton plus yield...If you read carefully I have talked about number of nukes not the category of the nukes, even then its not enough for a two front war!
 

maomao

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Now I am lost about the objective of this thread. Is it deterrence, pak doctrine, indian doctrine or what? I think a lot has already been talked about it. JP what are you looking for from me??
Now its clear who the Baniya Yusuf is!!:happy_2:
 

Godless-Kafir

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We should have launched the nukes when they had the huge flood crisis in pakistan!
 
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Agnostic_Indian

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@yusuf
i don't think china or US have access or control over pak nuks. To max there can be some assistance from US or china to help protect it better. But at a point when pak needs and decides to use those nuks, nothing can prevent them from doing so. There is some limit to international pressure or american control.
 

Yusuf

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The US gave them security equipment. The know how to create command and control. The communications equipment. Very easy for them to monitor everything. Remember CISMOA here and how the US wants to get a foothold of indian communications system and monitor it. Pak has been a subservient of US all its history. The US does have enough to deal with Pak.
 

Yusuf

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I can't say anything about 250 Kiloton capacity, however, we even have thermonuclear devices with 40 Kiloton plus yield...If you read carefully I have talked about number of nukes not the category of the nukes, even then its not enough for a two front war!
40KT device is going to be a fission bomb and not a thermonuclear one.
 

Iamanidiot

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Evil Bania Yusuf teach DFi walli about
1)Nuclear Targetting ,why sewage plants are such an object of obsession for targeteers,Stuart Slaades articles included
2)Nuclear warfighting and nuclear detterrence
3)Brilliance of general Sundarji and Nie
4)How Detterence as a concept works and why Pakis are uber stupid bunch
5)Why Paki,Indian and chinese nukes are in component form

The biggest source of frustration with regard to culling pakis is the americans not the nukes

PS:How are aliens ;-) how did they taste
 

sayareakd

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The US gave them security equipment. The know how to create command and control. The communications equipment. Very easy for them to monitor everything. Remember CISMOA here and how the US wants to get a foothold of indian communications system and monitor it. Pak has been a subservient of US all its history. The US does have enough to deal with Pak.
yusuf i dont think all of the Pakistani nukes would have those devices specially in the case where some or all of them are supplied by China, china first of all dont want foreign devices on its leased nukes, second Pakistan dont want to have all of their nukes on US watch list (may be few of them to satisfy US).
 

Yusuf

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Evil Bania Yusuf teach DFi walli about
1)Nuclear Targetting ,why sewage plants are such an object of obsession for targeteers,Stuart Slaades articles included
2)Nuclear warfighting and nuclear detterrence
3)Brilliance of general Sundarji and Nie
4)How Detterence as a concept works and why Pakis are uber stupid bunch
5)Why Paki,Indian and chinese nukes are in component form

The biggest source of frustration with regard to culling pakis is the americans not the nukes

PS:How are aliens ;-) how did they taste
Done it many times here. Besides my bloody laptop cannot post long post on DFI and I can't type long posts from my mobile.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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@yusuf
generals in pak are no fools..they must be knowing what and where america can monitor and access(if they really can) and will take counter measure too. So in an emergency nothing can prevent them from using it. no country will give it's nuke button to another countrys control.
 

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