Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Bhadra]

Strategic Partnership: The Model​

The strategic partnership model seeks to identify a few Indian private companies as Strategic Partners who would initially tie up with a few shortlisted foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) to manufacture big-ticket military platforms.

In the initial phase, the selection of SPs would be confined to four segments: Fighter Aircraft, Helicopters, Submarines, and Armoured Fighting Vehicles (AFV)/Main Battle Tanks (MBT).

In each segment, “only one SP would generally be selected”, says the new DPP chapter.

To allay fears that the MoD may favour one company over another, the selection of SPs and their foreign OEM partners would be based on a competitive process to be undertaken simultaneously. The main criteria for the selection of OEMs would be the compatibility of their products with the Services Staff Qualitative Requirements (SQRs), and their commitment to provide technology and other assistance to enable their Indian partners to produce in India with maximum indigenisation.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Lekin bhai, GoI wants a private company to manufacture helicopters in India in Strategic partnership with a foreign OED under SP Model...
So be it ....
HAL means :
MoD invests money in new plant, new machinery, acquisition, tooling, employees and other infrastructure, ToT etc.

HAL is already on the path of bankruptcy.......

Hal made the biggest profit of their life in their last capital year

 

[Vijyes]

Tell you a fact, their are more pvt companies which are actually working with the psus than the one waiting for the lollipop..... Most of the today's start work with either psu or gov research organisation.

Yes, there are indeed many private companies supplying parts. But the lead integration and the skill is only with PSU. So, to develop complete infrastructure across all skills in large quantities, we need much faster expansion of Integration facility and much faster Skilling.

 

[Steven Rogers]

RFI Further says :

11. Indigenisation Content (IC). In line with the ‘Make in India’ initiative of the Government of India, the OEM is to ensure that all efforts are made to maximize the Indigenous Content (IC) of the project ............. OEMs are to maximize Indigenous Content (IC) in the proposed design. The IC will be stipulated in the EoI and shall not be less than 40% on cost basis of the Make portion of contract as calculated in accordance with Para 13 of Chapter 1 of DPP-16.

Means 60 % import content .....
Better that ALH, is not it ??

Alh was 45 percent indigenous on cost basis back some year ago, and thats too in a report by a gov body....

 

[Bhadra]

Strategic Partnership: The Model​

Parallel to the shortlisting of OEMs, the MoD would also identify a list of Indian companies in each segment based on certain technical, financial and infrastructure-related parameters.

These shortlisted Indian companies would then be issued Requests for Proposal (RFP) along with the list of segment-wise OEMs in order to enable them to engage foreign partners and submit bid responses.

Post submission of bid responses, field trials of the equipment would be conducted to shortlist the Indian companies whose products meet the technical and performance requirements of the armed forces.

After field trials, the financial bids of the companies that qualify in each segment would be opened to identify vendors who have quoted the lowest price. In each segment, the contract would be awarded to the company that has quoted the lowest price, and it would be designated as a Strategic Partner.

It is to be noted, however, that existing Strategic Partners would not be the automatic choice for future contracts, although they would be given some weightage in the tendering process for the core expertise developed during the execution of the initial contract under the Strategic Partnership model.

 

[Bhadra]

Strategic Partnership: The Model​

According to the guidelines stipulated in the new Chapter VII of DPP 2016, any applicant company interested in participating in the selection process for strategic partners must be owned and controlled by resident Indians. This means that the majority in a company’s board of directors, including the Chief Executive Officer (CEO), must be resident Indians, and that a minimum 51 per cent of its equity must be owned by resident Indians.

The cap of a maximum of 49 per cent Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in SPs, which is also the condition in the newly revised ‘Make’ procedure, is intended to keep the crucial decision-making and intellectual property rights (IPR) in the hands of resident Indians.

In a major departure from the recommendation of the Dhirendra Singh Committee, which had strongly recommended against any cross-holding in two or more SPs by one parent company, the MoD’s notified model has left this issue open. This would allow a number of subsidiary companies of a particular conglomerate to be eligible to be designated as SPs, provided they satisfy the other stipulated condition.

​

 

[Bhadra]

Strategic Partnership : Potential Benefits
​

The SP model, if implemented well, is likely to have a number of benefits for both the private sector and the larger Indian defence industry. From the private sector’s point of view, the biggest benefit would be the opportunity to participate in some big ticket contracts – estimated to be worth over two lakh crore rupees in the initial phase of execution ¬– which were hitherto reserved for the DPSUs and OFs.

At the same time, the model would also go a long way in bridging the long-standing trust gap between the Indian private sector and MoD, with the latter perceived to be friendlier toward public sector entities.

Further, Strategic Partners, being private sector companies, are expected to exploit their dynamism, competitiveness, profit orientation, and exposure to the civilian sector for efficient utilisation of the technology, manpower and infrastructure developed in the process.

Moreover, given that future orders would not be awarded automatically after the initial contract, it is in the interest of SPs to constantly improve upon their competitiveness and core expertise. The development of competitiveness and expertise to compete to win future contracts, which was lacking in the case of DPSUs/OFs because of a constant flow of orders handed over on a platter by the MoD, is something that would contribute to laying a strong and credible foundation for India’s military industrial complex.

 

[Steven Rogers]

So, since Chetak and Cheetah are not 5 ton class LUH is not a replacement. Is that you want to convey ?
What is this procurement all about ?
New system?
To replace something ?
Or Do nothing ?

OK 5 tone class ? LUH is 3 ton class and ALH is 7 ton class.
So both do not fit.
Now happy.



Ask that questions to HAL fools who have responded to RFI ? Why ask me.

By the way you are a good entertainment.......

You keep on entertaining us... At least recheck what you state, chetak and chettah dont perform anything other than SAR, so you are now pushing that since chetak and cheetah perform only sar so navy should induct the replacement only to conduct sar, but the reality remains otherwise....
Chetak cheetah dont have
"The weapons and sensors integration experience
shall include airborne Light Weight Torpedo (LWT), Depth Charge and sensors {such
as Electro Optical (EO) Pod, Data Link, Self Protection Suite, Software Defined
Radio, Identification of Foe and Friend (IFF) responder etc}." these, so you are saying that navy should induct those who lack this..... The procurement is about to enhance the asw capability on the naval ships, long survillance, SAR, as primary task, and replacing the old helos as secondary which are hardly use. These new helos will be taking the job of chetak and cheetah rather replacing for that job...

Last i know, alh mtow is 5.5tons, with empty wt around 2.5 tons. So 7ton fig in your mind is another delusion which you've been living in.

 

[Bhadra]

Strategic Partnership: Some Concerns
​

Despite potential benefits, there are two concerns which need to be addressed to make SPs contribute in a meaningful and time-bound manner. The first and foremost concern is the lack of institutional capacity and ability to guide the new process to its logical conclusion.

In the past, several promising measures, especially those connected with the ‘Make’ and ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ procedures, have failed to yield the desired results because of these shortcomings.

Although the new Chapter VII of DPP talks of “an appropriate institutional and administrative mechanism” besides “adequate expertise in relevant fields like procurement, contract law and ToT [Transfer of Technology] arrangements”, much would depend on how they unfold. Needless to say, it is the lack of reforms in the structures and decision-making processes surrounding procurement and production that have inhibited the development of a strong defence industry.

There is also a concern regarding the long-term viability of SPs largely due to the privileged position enjoyed by public sector entities. Time and again, the MoD has deviated from its own promise of fair play in award of contracts and handed over large orders to DPSUs and OFs on nomination. It would be futile to expect SPs to make major investments if the government does not provide a level-playing filed to the private sector.

https://idsa.in/idsacomments/strategic-partnership-model-in-defence-industry_lkbehera_020617

 

[Bhadra]

You keep on entertaining us... At least recheck what you state, chetak and chettah dont perform anything other than SAR, so you are now pushing that since chetak and cheetah perform only sar so navy should induct the replacement only to conduct sar, but the reality remains otherwise....
Chetak cheetah dont have
"The weapons and sensors integration experience
shall include airborne Light Weight Torpedo (LWT), Depth Charge and sensors {such
as Electro Optical (EO) Pod, Data Link, Self Protection Suite, Software Defined
Radio, Identification of Foe and Friend (IFF) responder etc}." these, so you are saying that navy should induct those who lack this..... The procurement is about to enhance the asw capability on the naval ships, long survillance, SAR, as primary task, and replacing the old helos as secondary which are hardly use. These new helos will be taking the job of chetak and cheetah rather replacing for that job...

Last i know, alh mtow is 5.5tons, with empty wt around 2.5 tons. So 7ton fig in your mind is another delusion which you've been living in.

Do not try it....
I have at least stopped reading your posts because those are schoolboy demagogy

 

[Steven Rogers]

Yes, there are indeed many private companies supplying parts. But the lead integration and the skill is only with PSU. So, to develop complete infrastructure across all skills in large quantities, we need much faster expansion of Integration facility and much faster Skilling.

Manufacturing is more important than integration for pvt companies and Indian industries, integrating parts supplied by foreign oems in india is more of a made in india stamp....

 

[Steven Rogers]

Do not try it....
I have at least stopped reading your posts because those are schoolboy demagogy

Thats the best you can do to escape mockery, after been proven wrong for so many times... Ignorance level: -»infinite.....

 

[Bhadra]

Strategic Partnership
​

The Aatre Task Force, on the other hand, has listed 10 segments in two groups from which SPs would be selected (see Table 1).

One segment suggested by the Experts Committee but found missing in the Task Force Report is C4ISTR, for which the latter has suggested the Developmental Partnership model to create capability.

As per the Task Force’s reasoning, each segment in Group-I is in the nature of ‘system of systems’, which is not the case with Group-II segments.

What is crucial to observe is that for Group-I, the Task Force has suggested the selection of only one SP in each segment, whereas the number can go up to two in Group-II segments.

In other words, the Aatre-led group visualizes a maximum of 13 SPs (seven in Group-I and six in Group-II).2 Incidentally, the number of SPs recommended for selection is the same as the number of companies identified under the Raksha Udyog Ratna (RUR) scheme, which was first suggested by the Kelkar Committee report of 2005 but never implemented due to political inertia.

 

[Bhadra]

Hal made the biggest profit of their life in their last capital year

HAL made the biggest fool of itself when it went begging for money everywhere with pending pay slips and went to Roul Gandhi also to ask Nirmala Sitharaman asking questions in the Parliament.

HAL took active part in Rafale- Reliance controversy and sloganeering of "Chokidar Chor Hai'.... making an ass of themselves.

A drag on public money ...

 

[singhboy98]

Dhruv is a twin engined machine..
But dhruv has manually foldable rotors.....
But now can dhruv fold rotors automatically.....
And another problem is...dhruv falls between.....medium lift.....
Light helicopter....

Small helicopters can land on small decks.....which might not....

Also mtow and endurance is.low(from shukla article)
Hope hal will be able to convince navy.

My question was rhetorical in nature. I know that the ALH is a twin engined heptr. As for foldable rotors, I believe that HAL has no other option than to incorporate it as otherwise the ALH will be ineligible for the Navy RFI. I am not sure about the endurance and MTOW parameters as my knowledge about heptrs is very basic but at the same time, I would take anything from that bastard Shukla with a bucket of salt. I usually refrain from commenting on Helicopter related threads and only consume the knowledge disseminated.

 

[singhboy98]

You keep on entertaining us... At least recheck what you state, chetak and chettah dont perform anything other than SAR, so you are now pushing that since chetak and cheetah perform only sar so navy should induct the replacement only to conduct sar, but the reality remains otherwise....
Chetak cheetah dont have
"The weapons and sensors integration experience
shall include airborne Light Weight Torpedo (LWT), Depth Charge and sensors {such
as Electro Optical (EO) Pod, Data Link, Self Protection Suite, Software Defined
Radio, Identification of Foe and Friend (IFF) responder etc}." these, so you are saying that navy should induct those who lack this..... The procurement is about to enhance the asw capability on the naval ships, long survillance, SAR, as primary task, and replacing the old helos as secondary which are hardly use. These new helos will be taking the job of chetak and cheetah rather replacing for that job...

Last i know, alh mtow is 5.5tons, with empty wt around 2.5 tons. So 7ton fig in your mind is another delusion which you've been living in.

The likes of Chetak being in service with the Indian Navy is the most obvious sign of the desperate situation the IN currently finds itself in. I read somewhere that these single-engined heptrs are not qualified for off-shore operations beyond a certain radius from shore but the IN/ICG have to make do because they do not have any other option. It is funny that a heptr whose own survival at sea is not 100% ensured is tasked with SAR missions. The ALH, despite all its shortcomings, is still thousand times better in any and every role that the Navy can throw at it especially when compared to the Chetak's whose rightful place for the last 20 years have been museums and scrap yards. It is a damning indictment of our system that these pieces of shit are still allowed in frontline service.

 

[IndianHawk]

This is not technology acquisition but industrial expansion project. So, the specific intention is to develop private industry to create large industrial base for a multivendor scenario. So, here there is no incentive to select indigenous product as that will mean the same HAL will continue to get orders & other private industry will be deprived of orders

Multivendor scenario works when you have one vendor already with a ready and sold platform in place. Then you introduce another vendor with foreign participation which also brings new tech new methods as will as competition.

But in case of Naval helicopter. Where do we have the first vendor in place to create a multivendor situation. Even for HAL this is new domain. HAL has to test and verify a great deal for an operational naval dhruv. For that it needs funding and support and orders.

So as to create a multivendor situation for naval helicopter we will have to support both HAL as well as an rival by spiliting orders. Otherwise we just create a monopoly.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[IndianHawk]

The likes of Chetak being in service with the Indian Navy is the most obvious sign of the desperate situation the IN currently finds itself in. I read somewhere that these single-engined heptrs are not qualified for off-shore operations beyond a certain radius from shore but the IN/ICG have to make do because they do not have any other option. It is funny that a heptr whose own survival at sea is not 100% ensured is tasked with SAR missions. The ALH, despite all its shortcomings, is still thousand times better in any and every role that the Navy can throw at it especially when compared to the Chetak's whose rightful place for the last 20 years have been museums and scrap yards. It is a damning indictment of our system that these pieces of shit are still allowed in frontline service.

IN is not desperate by any measure. Yes it needs both expansion and upgradation. But look at its competition. China is far far away with no real capacity to challenge Indian navy in Indian Ocean. Yes China has lots of submarine but that is why anti submarine warfare is focus of navy for a while with dedicated asw kamorta class to new shallow water asw ships ordered recently to acquisition of p8i and now mh60 helicopter.

Pakistan navy is very week. Indian cost guard might take on it and come ahead .

Compare this to challenges Indian army and airforce has to face and you will see real desperation.

Of course naval acquisition have been delayed just like all defense purchase but that is common problem of all forces.

Still with nuclear submarine and Scorpion coming up navy is getting enormous strength. Not to forget the new nuclear attack submarines that are in development and new lease for chakra ssn.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[Sanglamorre]

IN is not desperate by any measure. Yes it needs both expansion and upgradation. But look at its competition. China is far far away with no real capacity to challenge Indian navy in Indian Ocean. Yes China has lots of submarine but that is why anti submarine warfare is focus of navy for a while with dedicated asw kamorta class to new shallow water asw ships ordered recently to acquisition of p8i and now mh60 helicopter.

Pakistan navy is very week. Indian cost guard might take on it and come ahead .

Compare this to challenges Indian army and airforce has to face and you will see real desperation.

Of course naval acquisition have been delayed just like all defense purchase but that is common problem of all forces.

Still with nuclear submarine and Scorpion coming up navy is getting enormous strength. Not to forget the new nuclear attack submarines that are in development and new lease for chakra ssn.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

I think it makes sense since India is poised to become a great naval power. The main strength of India lies in ruling her ocean.

Something I find very interesting but probably not pertinent to the discussion is that India is the only country with an ocean named after her. With the vast and pretty unobstructed till Antarctica, the Indian ocean will forever be the source of power projection of our country. Hence, the navy needs to be strengthened the most.

 

[Vijyes]

Multivendor scenario works when you have one vendor already with a ready and sold platform in place. Then you introduce another vendor with foreign participation which also brings new tech new methods as will as competition.

But in case of Naval helicopter. Where do we have the first vendor in place to create a multivendor situation. Even for HAL this is new domain. HAL has to test and verify a great deal for an operational naval dhruv. For that it needs funding and support and orders.

So as to create a multivendor situation for naval helicopter we will have to support both HAL as well as an rival by spiliting orders. Otherwise we just create a monopoly.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

India is not creating multivendor merely for Naval helicopters but for all defence needs from gun to planes to ships. The idea is yo simply develop industrial base to manufacture