Indian Jaguar Upgrade

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Sridhar, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    This Aircraft have no Radar, Its Navigation is based on some GPS receiver..
     
  2. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Is it possible to equip these jets with a new radar?
     
  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    You may find this interesting..

    Its a very small radar, Even offered for MIG-21..

    [​IMG]

    EL/M-2032

    -----------
    -----------

    The rest can be upgraded but not upgraded..

     
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  4. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Radars are used for ground mapping in the strike role. Considering the size of the Jaguar's radome, it won't be particularly good on a cost vs capability basis.

    In the USAF, the most survivable tactical strike aircraft was the F-117A. Even this aircraft did not carry a radar.

    A radar is not necessary for bombing, what we need is a targeting pod like LITENING or Damocles for LGBs.
     
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  5. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    But these jets often need to fly very close to the surface (land/sea) at high speeds, in that case what sort of equipment do they rely on to map the terrain below?
     
  6. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    A Terrain navigation system that maps the ground using cameras and compares it to photographs taken earlier. It is called TerProm or Terrain Profile-matching system. Apart from that there are Ground Proximity Warning Systems, Obstacle avoidance systems, database for obstacles etc. It is something like TERCOM on cruise missiles.

    Actually in the flight profile that the Jaguar takes, ie hugging tree tops like a cruise missile, a radar is practically useless. While using a radio altimeter gives away position Jaguar has this also. It can also be used to navigate.
     
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  7. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Brilliance Senior Member

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    The jaguar is still surviving in IAf is testimonty to local talent.
    It was palmed off on the IAF with defective terrain profile matching system by BAe based on the promise that it will be remedied later.
    Once the purchase was made, the BAE asked a stiff 125 crore for aFEASIBILITY STUDY to check whether another system can be fitted on the aircraft.
    The MOD was shocked by this double dealing.
    The fighters languished with same defective system for awhile.
    Then within a budget of 20 crores it was upgraded with apporopriate navigational aid by INDIANS .


    The DARIN Story � TKS' Tales

    Members can go to the above site and see for themselves how foreign manufactrurers shaft the IAF with dodgy claims.

    It was then upgraded.

    During it's heydays of 1970s and 80s whereshoulder fired heat seeking missiles and short range sams were luxury it did it's role as effective tree top level bomber with aplomp.
    Now with AWACS systems and proliferation of shouleder fired missiles and short range sams that give hardly a few seconds warning ,how it will survive with a few flairs and escorts is very much debatable.

    People compare it often with A-10 tank busters of US army.But what they don't tell is A-10 is heavily armoured and can take punishment,while jags can't as they have no armour matching the A-10.

    Only some third world countries and india are using this jags.

    Todays deep penetration strike is performed by RAFALES AND SUKHOIs.

    Jags can still provide close air support to front line army units.

    But nowadays even tanks fire anti-aircraft missiles, then what are the odds of jags survivals in this situation.Surely escorts are no bodygaurds to come between the missile and JAgs.

    That too is impossible,because the reaction time to evade a couple of these missile is a few seconds only.

    No western airforce uses this. It's been retired by them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
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  8. Abhi9

    Abhi9 Regular Member

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    Jaguar darin III cockpit

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Brilliance Senior Member

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    Most of the above illustrated stuff has originated from TEJAS program.

    Also the sukhoi cockpit also has most of the components from mission computer to RWR from TEJAS program only.
     
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  10. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    I agree, jags are only useful as close air support role in modern war, that too because more capable aircrafts are buys with other roles and we no option but to use jaguars as we have to keep up the squadron numbers also, afterall something is better than nothing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  11. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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  12. uss

    uss Regular Member

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    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  13. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    probably gonna use like a-10 thunderbolt of america in anti tank role.
     
  14. cobra commando

    cobra commando Tharki regiment Veteran Member Senior Member

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  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    The problem with Jaguar upgrade is that 2B USD that it needs for 120 Jaguar is sufficient to buy 70 new LCA Tejas. Supporting Jaguar is no longer easy as both UK and France have retired the plane.

    Methinks Jaguar needs retirement as well. Maintaining old fleets and spending billions in upkeep does not sound logical.

    The best course seems to crank up LCA Tejas numbers along with local production of laser targeted bombs, air-air missiles, and cargo bombs. Better to spend these upgrade dollars on Tejas. The Jaguar with Darin-2 upgrade can still do its job. Jaguar is a 3rd generation plane which has become irrelevant in modern combat.
     
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  16. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    IAF needs to think in terms of retiring Mig-21, Mig-27 and Jaguars. All these aircrafts must be replaced with LCA Tejas.

    This is the reason we need significant ramp up of LCA Tejas line.
     
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  17. uoftotaku

    uoftotaku Regular Member

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    IAF and MOD planners are hobbled with their inflexible stance that aircraft MUST be used for 40 years...completely ignoring the facts of technological advances and heavy airframe stress. The M2000, MiG-29, MiG-21bis, MiG-27, Jaguar have ALL outlived their combat effective usefulness yet billions have already been spent and more set to be spent on keeping them in service. All the money spent of these could have easily bought more than adequate numbers of Tejas, Rafale, SU-30MKI's to ensure Air Dominance in South Asia TODAY!
     
  18. cobra commando

    cobra commando Tharki regiment Veteran Member Senior Member

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  19. Abhi9

    Abhi9 Regular Member

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    [​IMG]

    April 01: Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) successfully carried out the first flight of a Jaguar DARIN III upgraded ‘strike’ aircraft at its facilities in Bengaluru recently.
    HAL officials confirmed to OneIndia that the first flight of the upgraded Jaguar ‘strike’ aircraft lasted for about 15 minutes.
    The maiden flight was followed by another flight of the upgraded Jaguar that lasted for an hour on March 25 for an hour.
    In November 2012 HAL had carried out the first flight of Jaguar DARIN III upgraded ‘maritime’ aircraft, with an unhappy Indian Air Force (IAF) wanting more features to be added on to the aircraft.
    “The IAF had some concerns with the Mission Computer used in the maritime aircraft. It was of DARIN-II standard. We have now upgraded all possible systems on the aircraft as per the user requirement,” HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju told OneIndia.
    Three Jaguar prototypes (strike, maritime and trainer) have been set aside for testing the DARIN-III features. Raju says that HAL is mandated to upgrade 59 Jaguars that were inducted into the IAF, forming the original batch.

    Report by TARMAK007
     
  20. sjmaverick

    sjmaverick Regular Member

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    I have lot of praises for "Chanakya" from the stories read about him, may be HAL should take few notes out of them and think twice before undertaking the task of upgrading such older platforms with the technologies gained during development of tejas to the reluctant IAF who most likely will have huge cry over the upgraded 3 generation planes without understanding the limitations inherent in design and will benefit maximum for next 10 years with reasonable amount of doubt associated. Needless to say that no other country/organisation will support such upgrades if refused by HAL and may ultimately open eyes of IAF to move to better platform and technology at present available in India save wasteful money and help in further development of complex technologies without which even these upgrades were not possible.
     

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